If you could get rid of one Olympic sport, which would it be?

Jenni_ said:
Fencing you're essentially stabbing someone with a sword? Wrestling, judo... those are all combat sports where people can get hurt. Boxing just seems the most brutal because its fast paced.

My friend jokes that she's had more black eyes as a rugby player than I ever have as a boxer. That's another sport where folk are out to take eachother out the game.
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Boxing has actually done some great things in NI, Carl Frampton has done a lot for cross-community work, and I know a lot of people who aren't from privileged backgrounds or much money at all, but have had worlds of opportunities opened up for them because they box. And the boxing keeps them off the streets fighting, drinking etc. because they'd rather be in the gym training and not doing anything stupid where they would be not just shutting, but baring the door behind them!

Tbf to rugby, they don't set about with trying to take each other out, but fights do happen. Also know of coaches who in schools level have said to use the 99 call :P
 
I don't think anyone is saying boxing gyms are bad thing and don't do a lot in a lot of problematic communities? Just questioning whether the sport itself sits with the ethos of the olympics.
 
ester said:
I don't think anyone is saying boxing gyms are bad thing and don't do a lot in a lot of problematic communities? Just questioning whether the sport itself sits with the ethos of the olympics.
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I would say given the cross-community work, and the fact boxing can do and has done so much for young people and for minorities, it would fit with the ethos.
 
teapot said:
It comes down to numbers of nations involved and space needed. It's why polo got ditched so quickly
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Not every nation has representation in equestrian sports though? At least Polo is played in more countries than where eventing is a sport...

Come to think of it, why isn't horse racing included? That's a sport and jockeys have to be super fit to race. The racing horse is the ultimate athlete and racing is in even more countries.

I still think horses should be taken out of the Olympics.
 
tallyho! said:
Not every nation has representation in equestrian sports though? At least Polo is played in more countries than where eventing is a sport...

Come to think of it, why isn't horse racing included? That's a sport and jockeys have to be super fit to race. The racing horse is the ultimate athlete and racing is in even more countries.

I still think horses should be taken out of the Olympics.
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That wasn't my point, you don't have to have every nation BUT you're not going to see the 'lesser' nations compete and that's what the Olympics are about. Take Argentina, could provide many polo teams but not one eventer. Netball's played all over the world but isn't an Olympic sport.

Racing I'm not sure fits under the definition of an 'Olympic sport'. Besides how would a nation's sports funding fund it?

The biggest issues re equestrian sports are money and space.
 
teapot said:
That wasn't my point, you don't have to have every nation BUT you're not going to see the 'lesser' nations compete and that's what the Olympics are about. Take Argentina, could provide many polo teams but not one eventer. Netball's played all over the world but isn't an Olympic sport.

Racing I'm not sure fits under the definition of an 'Olympic sport'. Besides how would a nation's sports funding fund it?

The biggest issues re equestrian sports are money and space.
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Racing I think would be considered too 'pro' and how many jockeys and trainers would really be interested in entering for an Olympic gold, when they could be winning big money elsewhere? on top of that, you'd have to do all the heats/finals as well as decide if hurdles/flat/steeplechase would be used and run various distances.
As it's quite controversial amongst animal rights activists, I can't imagine it would ever make it in due to that.

I think vaulting should be included. It's more of a niche sport, but would be nice to see as it's not the traditional top hat and tails and 'horse does all the work' type equine sport. It's also not really an English or Western type of equine sport.

I'd love to see horseball or some of the more 'niche' equine sports as well, or some sports that aren't as traditional, similar to working equitation as well . I know the FEI only recognise a handful of equine sports, and as they hold authority at the Olympics that could come into it as well? FEI doesn't hold authority/govern polo or racing which also may be why they aren't included.

I would hate to see eventing cut down to something similar to arena eventing or a 2 phase.
 
teapot said:
That wasn't my point, you don't have to have every nation BUT you're not going to see the 'lesser' nations compete and that's what the Olympics are about. Take Argentina, could provide many polo teams but not one eventer. Netball's played all over the world but isn't an Olympic sport.

Racing I'm not sure fits under the definition of an 'Olympic sport'. Besides how would a nation's sports funding fund it?

The biggest issues re equestrian sports are money and space.
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Why not? It's a race - every bit of that word is a sport. There's racing in swimming, cycling, rowing... a sprint to the finish line is about as sporty as you're going to get.

I understand the space and money issue which is why I think the equestrian section needs updating because as it is now, it's mainly only the nations with bags of money with that get a look in.
 
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tallyho! said:
Why not? It's a race - every bit of that word is a sport. There's racing in swimming, cycling, rowing... a sprint to the finish line is about as sporty as you're going to get.
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Because the basic essence of horse racing is about the fastest horse, not the fastest jockey. If you stopped someone in the street I bet you they could name National, Gold Cup or Derby winning horses much quicker than their jockeys.
 
tallyho! said:
I think on the whole, equestrian "sport" has become a little embarrassing at the top level. I don't care how "successful" you are but if you need inch-thick nosebands and several bits in one go just to jump, then well, how good are you really? Good at multi-tacking!! There's kids jumping ponies in just a snaffle who ought to be given accolades.

I agree with you completely.

Also, why only the "english" types of horse sports? What about horseball, working equitation, driving...?
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yes!
 
duckling said:
You say that, but this article about their decision is trending on FB and has almost 5000 people talking about it from countries all over the world: http://horsenetwork.com/2016/08/british-dressage-makes-helmet-statement-rio/

From comments I've read, it's almost overwhelmingly positive support, with a handful saying that they like the fact that they have the choice to wear top hats if they wish.
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Yes, precisely. I was cheered to read about it and tbh I hope the peeps who don't want the tops and tails to go enjoy watching their sport die at the top levels lol - been on twitter tonight? Dressage is trending and it ain't pretty reading for the most part!
 
I'd hate to see the traditional dressage attire changed. It fits perfectly with the grace and harmony of the sport. I really think the helmets spoil the overall appearance, a bit like riding side saddle in jods.
I do however, completely understand the safety aspect. I wonder if some one could come up with a top hat style helmet cover, similar to racing silks. Not as easy to achieve I'm sure, but must be possible.
 
I'd like to see all equestrian sports overhauled wrt clothing-modernise it completely.


Top level horse ball is a great spectator sport but it is tough on the horses. Ditto WE, of which I am a big fan-not sure either would open up the Olympics to currently less represented nations though.
 
ribbons said:
I'd hate to see the traditional dressage attire changed. It fits perfectly with the grace and harmony of the sport. I really think the helmets spoil the overall appearance, a bit like riding side saddle in jods.
I do however, completely understand the safety aspect. I wonder if some one could come up with a top hat style helmet cover, similar to racing silks. Not as easy to achieve I'm sure, but must be possible.
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Been done, hasn't taken off
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/dressage/new-safety-top-hat-launched-for-dressage-riders-306866
 
I think there's no getting round the fact that, whatever we wear, horses are expensive, which is going to put them out of the reach of most nations and most people. It was ever thus. (ETA - and if you don't have that kind of national passion and background/heritage, how far would your eally go, even if it was subsidised?) So, maybe there is a case for binning horse sport from the Olympics altogether. At least then the dressage people are free to keep the historical attire and grace and all that in it's proper place.
 
DanceswithCows said:
I think there's no getting round the fact that, whatever we wear, horses are expensive, which is going to put them out of the reach of most nations and most people. It was ever thus. (ETA - and if you don't have that kind of national passion and background/heritage, how far would your eally go, even if it was subsidised?) So, maybe there is a case for binning horse sport from the Olympics altogether. At least then the dressage people are free to keep the historical attire and grace and all that in it's proper place.
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I've been musing since I first suggested this earlier on the thread. I've realised that a lot of my feeling that horse sport should be removed is because it is so unequal in opportunity. Any child who runs fast, pays football well, or has the potential to do any other Olympic sport at world class level can be spotted and nurtured.

This is not so of riding. Many people have the ability to grow into a world class rider. But to do that, at some stage they have to ride and win on a horse that allows them to demonstrate that talent and stays sound. Very, very few riders will ever have that opportunity to showcase their talent, no matter how much potential they have.

It has to be the most unlevel playing field in the whole Olympics by a very long way, doesn't it?
 
anything that requires a tool is a bit like that though. You don't find out if you are talented at riding without learning to ride, you don't find out that you are good at sailing, or rowing without access to boats etc.
Obviously running and the sack race you find out fairly early on that you are pants ;). But I might have had some secret untapped kayaking talent :p
 
teapot said:
Because the basic essence of horse racing is about the fastest horse, not the fastest jockey. If you stopped someone in the street I bet you they could name National, Gold Cup or Derby winning horses much quicker than their jockeys.
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I don't know where you're coming from to be honest, it doesn't make sense to me. I see the equestrian sports now as the fastest/best horse, so I can't see any difference. Maybe because I come from a racing background, I don't know. It looks as if we see the world in different ways. :)
 
DanceswithCows said:
I think there's no getting round the fact that, whatever we wear, horses are expensive, which is going to put them out of the reach of most nations and most people. It was ever thus. (ETA - and if you don't have that kind of national passion and background/heritage, how far would your eally go, even if it was subsidised?) So, maybe there is a case for binning horse sport from the Olympics altogether. At least then the dressage people are free to keep the historical attire and grace and all that in it's proper place.
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To add to your point, the Olympic event is so skewed anyway.

In the xc, the course was so hard, only 6 people finished within time - it's so geared towards to nations with the most behind eventing - UK, Aus, Germany, France and a couple of others that no one else really has a proper chance. Nothing else is that hard and that dangerous at the olympics. Lucky no animals or humans were killed in some of those combinations.

I applaud our dressage team though - they are doing such a lot for the sport. Their horses are not tens of thousands of pounds from elite stock from Germany, they are what CH likes to call "ordinary" horses with talent.

Still, not a level playing field - so I'm still not convinced equestrian sports should stay in the Olympics. It's too closed. The gap between rider skills are far too big.
 
ester said:
anything that requires a tool is a bit like that though. You don't find out if you are talented at riding without learning to ride, you don't find out that you are good at sailing, or rowing without access to boats etc.
Obviously running and the sack race you find out fairly early on that you are pants ;). But I might have had some secret untapped kayaking talent :p
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Yes, but a boat is a boat, and in fact I think the specification of the boat is the same for each competitor. And a friend of mine had a child who was able to get into the British training squad in a five hundred quid dinghy which never went lame and spoiled her chances.
 
tallyho! said:
I applaud our dressage team though - they are doing such a lot for the sport. Their horses are not tens of thousands of pounds from elite stock from Germany, they are what CH likes to call "ordinary" horses with talent.

.
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Carl certainly does import elite bred young stock costing tens of thousands of pounds from the continent. I've seen him at a demo with one he imported as a two year old.
 
ycbm said:
Carl certainly does import elite bred young stock costing tens of thousands of pounds from the continent. I've seen him at a demo with one he imported as a two year old.
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The point I was trying to make was that they don't rely on expensive horses or make a point of only training them from such stock.

Is that ok?
 
What stock have they had which would be deemed 'ordinary'? I think they are all pretty expensive, they have to be fit for purpose. Valegro was never an ordinary horse, he always had a ridiculous back end. All but one horse currently on the yard is an imported warmblood from the continent.
Valegro doesn't have the stallion extra value of totilas, no future earning power.

Good point about boats not going lame ycbm :D

I'm not sure it is true that nothing else is that hard or dangerous in the olympics. If it wasn't hard you might as well just have a dressage competition. It is supposed to be for the best so I don't understand the concept of 'giving others a chance' unless you intend a handicap system for all sports?
 
I thought the inspiration behind the modern Olympics was to inspire youngsters into grass roots sports. There for getting the next generation out enjoying what ever sport they choose.
 
tallyho! said:
I don't know where you're coming from to be honest, it doesn't make sense to me. I see the equestrian sports now as the fastest/best horse, so I can't see any difference. Maybe because I come from a racing background, I don't know. It looks as if we see the world in different ways. :)
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My point was that in racing it's the horse that gets the accolade. In Olympic Equestrian events, it's the rider. Olympic sports are arguably about human talent, not an animal. Whereas in racing, it is about the animal. For example, Sprinter Sacre won the Queen Mother, Micheal Jung won the Rio 2016 Individual Eventing title.

tallyho said:
To add to your point, the Olympic event is so skewed anyway. In the xc, the course was so hard, only 6 people finished within time - it's so geared towards to nations with the most behind eventing - UK, Aus, Germany, France and a couple of others that no one else really has a proper chance. Nothing else is that hard and that dangerous at the olympics. Lucky no animals or humans were killed in some of those combinations.
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London was arguably a far easier xc course, yet there were more rider falls, more horse falls, more holds on course and fewer finishers. 70% of combinations completed the course at Rio. Make it too easy, riders lose respect, go too fast and that's when mistakes happen. Take Athens where the course was so small that Pippa Funnell had to anchor her horse so much he didn't tip up over something minor.

I suggest you go and read both Tina Cook's and Mark Phillips' columns on the H&H website, neither are scathing of the Rio xc course. In fact Tina goes as far to say that a course like that from Pierre Michelet should never have come as a surprise to anyone.
 
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teapot said:
My point was that in racing it's the horse that gets the accolade. In Olympic Equestrian events, it's the rider. Olympic sports are arguably about human talent, not an animal. Whereas in racing, it is about the animal. For example, Sprinter Sacre won the Queen Mother, Micheal Jung won the Rio 2016 Individual Eventing title.



London was arguably a far easier xc course, yet there were more rider falls, more horse falls, more holds on course and fewer finishers. 70% of combinations completed the course at Rio. Make it too easy, riders lose respect, go too fast and that's when mistakes happen. Take Athens where the course was so small that Pippa Funnell had to anchor her horse so much he didn't tip up over something minor.

I suggest you go and read both Tina Cook's and Mark Phillips' columns on the H&H website, neither are scathing of the Rio xc course. In fact Tina goes as far to say that a course like that from Pierre Michelet should never have come as a surprise to anyone.
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Righty-ho yes thank you I will go and read the H&H Bible - lest I be uneducated in the xc courses of the Olympics....
 
That's not what I was implying but if people are going to moan about Eventing being an Olympic sport, I'd wish the stats and figures they quote were put in a wider context. That 40% stat released by equi-ratings has potentially done more harm than good for the sport because stats in black and white are never good imho.
 
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