If you had to bute your horse to do a particular activity...

Firstly, please can I clarify for everyone that bute is an anti inflamatory, it belongs to a group of drugs called Non Steriodal Anti Inflammitories (NSAID).

Contrary to popular opinion Bute is a safe drug – adverse reactions when ‘bute’ is used within normal dose rates are very rare. When used over a prolonged period (i.e. years) Bute can cause mild damage to the liver but this is still pretty rare.

I would not compete on Bute, because in my sport (endurance) it is illegal and I consider it unethical. I do not support the FEI decision to allow low dosages of Bute and have signed petitions etc to that effect.

However, I would have no issue with a horse on Bute taking part in fun/pleasure rides and other low level activities - these are not competitions, so the ethics are entirely different.

I do not believe it is 'cruel' to ride a horse on Bute. Like everything, a thorough discussion with your vet is required to make an informed decision looking at the longterm picture and the individual circumstances of the horse.
 
hmm, interesting one, for me if a horse needs bute to stay comfortable then he would have it but that would only be after exploring other options as a last resort. I would ride a horse on bute if vet advised it for instance for arthritis low level movement to keep him going but Id be wary of what damage is being done that couldnt be seen.
 
I have a 13 year old with arthritis and he is on a bute a day and has been for about 2 years now. He is a big lad, and vet says the one a day is very minimal in his system for a horse of his size. When it get to the point that he is on 3/4 a day and uncomfortable, I will take the decision to PTS. I do hope that is a few years away yet though. He is used for hacking and the odd fun ride. He is having a vet check up this morning funnily enough, and we are hoping to do a fun ride on the 19th. It will be his first one this year, as the last one we were going on, we broke down on the way there.
 
I have no issue with a horse having a bit of bute when necessary to keep it hacking sound (as with horses that may have arthritis etc.) but any more than that would be a no, no for me.
 
niagaraduval said:
Agree with another poster I wouldn't bute him to even ride him either let alone compete him.
Don't agree with buting horses in order for them to be ridden.
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Its very easy when you are young and invincible yourself, to have such a black and white attitude, however as you become older, the grey areas expand.

I've previously posted about my 17 hh Hanoverian, who I took on aged around 13, he'd previously been a Grade B showjumper and then won the Winter Dressage Championships at Medium, he had been a commodity for all his life. We took him on after he'd been diagnosed with DJD, most likely as a result of being pushed too hard too soon as a youngster, and as such was uncomfortable on the one leg, unable to turn tightly on it, I took him on knowing his limitations and that I'd be able to do very little with him, but his other option was realistically a bullet.

I had him for three years; he went from being a "commodity" as a competition horse, just one of a string, to a much loved family pet and hack. In order to keep him sound he was on a daily dose of bute, we experimented with the dosage to keep him on the minimum possible in order to reduce potential liver damage, but ensure his comfort and quality of life.

He had three lovely years with us where he was happy, fussed over and able to hack out, he loved to pop the odd jump and gallop through the countryside, he would be so obviously happy in himself, however the payback from that was that he would require additional bute for a day or so after. As time went on we found it harder to keep weight onto him going into winter and had decided that if we believed that his quality of life dropped below a certain point then we would let him go. We had explored all the avenues, tried alternative remedies, found some things that helped him, discarded options that didn't work and established a regime that allowed him to be happy and enjoy a good quality of life.

It was a hard day knowing that we would have to let him go, we doubled his bute dose and took him for a good blast, which he loved, the next day we took him to the hunt kennels and he went, believing that he was going to have a days hunting!

He was a lovely boy who's cheeky personality only really emerged with a one-to-one bond, he may have had the odd days stiffness, and not always been 100% sound, but he had three good years with us to enjoy his life. I wished that I'd had him as a fully sound horse and frequently cursed the commercial pressures that often pushes young horses before there bodies are ready for it, but it was not to be, but I don't ever regret giving him the chance to enjoy three years of his life to the full.

Having nursed an injury myself for a number of years, it was always a grumbling discomfort, a background irritant, that prevented me from doing all that I wanted, made it impossible for me to do Triathlons or Marathons, but that didn't mean that I couldn't/can't continue to exercise, play sport and function as a happy person working in an industry where physical condition and fitness is a pre-requisite. I absolutely disagree with horses being pushed to compete, at a level where they are aggravating an injury, but masking it with bute, but there is a big difference between asking a horse to do Puissance and a hack and the odd fence or even a days hunting, each situation needs to be judged on its own merits.

Please don't take this as an attack on the younger members of the forum, merely pointing out that unless you yourself have experienced mild chronic discomfort yourself, you can't neccessarily appreciate the situation.
 
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Maisy said:
No! Absolutely not.

I hate taking pain killers myself, and wouldn't do it to a horse....

I would only use them short term....if my horse needed bute every day to make it comfortable enough to live then I would PTS....I would be too worried about how long they were in pain for between doses and how much damage would be done internally....
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I find this comment really strange. Are you saying you'd rather PTS a horse who could live happy on a bute a day then extend their comfortable life for another few years?

Bute is not like paracetamol, or other horsey painkillers, my understanding is that its effects are over a period of time, so it wouldn't be like 4 hours of cover from one does and the other 20 hours in pain. If you knew horses who are succesfully on a bute a day, you'd see that they don't have peaks and troughs of soundness throughout the 24 hours.

Silmarillon
No.

Painkillers do what they say on the tin - the kill pain, but they do not stop further damage occurring. Pain is a SYMPTOM of an underlying issue, and to mask the symptoms and carry on anyway is ridiculous IMO.

If a horse of mine wasn't sound to compete without painkillers at the top level, it would stay at the lower levels and within its comfort range. If it wasn't sound enough to compete at low levels, I'd stick to working gently at home. If it wasn't ok to do that, it'd hack. If it couldn't do that, it'd stay in the field. If it couldn't survive in the field without constant painkillers - well, as difficult as that decision may be, I'd rather PTS than kill it slowly by tearing its insides apart with drugs.

And there's no comparison to the use of painkillers in humans, IMO - we make the decision for ourselves. If we want to drug ourselves up and kill our bodies then fine. The horse doesn't have a choice.
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You see, I'd rather the horse had a few extra years happy and feeling healthy, than give up on it without even trying bute. I think tearing its insides apart is a bit of an over statement, but yes there is a risk of liver damage - but I'd rather give the horse the extra years and PTS because of liver damage, than PTS earlier because of a chronic condition.

As for making the decision over whether to pop a painkiller for ourselves rather than our horses - everything we do around horses is making a decision for them. The moral dilemma isn't just "should I drug up and kill my horse's body?" its also "should I let my horse carry on life in discomfort/pain, when I know there is something I can do to help him" and also "should I PTS now, rather than extend his comfortable life with bute?"

All we can do is to try to make the best decision for them based on how well we know them and the vet's advice.
 
Silmarillion said:
No.

Painkillers do what they say on the tin - the kill pain, but they do not stop further damage occurring. Pain is a SYMPTOM of an underlying issue, and to mask the symptoms and carry on anyway is ridiculous IMO.
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But Bute isn't just an analgesic it is also an anti inflammatory and as such can prevent damage by reducing the bodies inflammatory response.

As I said in my initial response, I do not agree with competing on bute, however in consultation with a vet it can be helpful drug for enabling horses to have long and useful lives who may otherwise have been PTS.

Side effects such as liver damage are actually quite rare, even with long term usage (ie years) on the sort of doses that are usually prescribed to keep horses comfortable.
 
Very interesting thread. My 18 year old cob has been diagnosed with DJD/arthritic changes in his hocks within the last month. He's been on two bute a day for a week, and one a day for a fortnight. He also has Devils Claw Flex and magnetic bandages on 12 hours a day. I can see the different for the better in him - he is trotting better in the field, and the heat on the inside of his hocks has all but disappeared. We only do light hacking... I am hoping that one day we can go for a burn again, which he loves!
 
My 29yo has been on bute then danillon for 4 years now. The first 2 years it was enought to keep her fit for light hacking. Now just to keep her comfortable in the field. It is much better for arthritic horses to be keep moving where possible, so if painkillers will enable them to stay in light work, this has got be be better for their over all health. Especially at her age.

Plus the vet says the risk of liver damage is very low and less on danillon. I would much sooner have her put down in 2 years due to complications from pain killers if there were any than now because she is in pain in the field.
 
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