If you have native ponies fit enough to compete successfully (SJ or similar) at amateur levels, what does your week look like in terms of work?

[little_critter]

This reminds me of a horse I rode years ago, not a native, but hopefully still relevant. This horse was due to go to Badminton, long format, so it was a while ago! I was employed to make sure his dressage was kept up to the mark, the first time I rode him I schooled him for about 45mins and he worked well, but he got fairly sweaty and puffed a lot. I took him back to the yard and told them I was worried about his fitness, I knew the person who was responsible for his fitness, and she was excellent, but I was shocked at how he reacted to schooling. She laughed at me and told me to come back the next day and hack him. The next day she told me we would do average hacking, not fast work, we went out, and after walking a mile or so we started to trot round the fields, just a nice, active working trot, and we trotted forever, it was rising trot, my legs were on fire, I wanted to stop, I was knackered! The horse never faltered, never lost rhythm or power and after a gazillion miles wasnt even blowing. It brought it home to me very forcibily the difference between hacking and schooling fitness, and its true for all horses/ponies in my experience.

The horse skipped round Badminton no problem at all, his fitness was top notch.

It’s like asking Paula Radcliffe to do a session of gymnastics, she’s used to getting into a long distance running rhythm, the gymnastic work will tax different muscles.
My OH finds it cycling too, a short mountain bike ride can me as tiring as a long road bike ride. On a road bike you get into a rhythm, mountain biking has much more changes of pace, accelerating, braking, accelerating again. You can never settle and it takes constant effort.

Sounds like school exercises that will tax muscles are needed, like poles / grids

 

[Flowerofthefen]

SJ classes - after a warm-up, class one, break, warm-up, class 2 involved some puffing and pony was tired by the end. I would prefer more in the tank and am used to finishing the second class with enough energy to do more.

Dressage: again after warm-up, class 1, warm-up, we were dropping out of canter in class 2 near the end.

When schooling, ponies were tired at the 30minute mark and we weren’t exactly cantering a huge amount.

We only did walk/trot and prelim dressage, then kids did SJ comps up to 50cm and NF jumped up to 60cm courses at arena hire.

This summer I would like to do Prelim/Novice. My son would like to jump 60-70cm on our adult Welsh A and 13hh NF.

Sounds like your doing enough fitness work. Are they hairy natives? Perhaps clipping might help? Perhaps a look at their diet?

 

[MissTyc]

When I had my chunky cob eventing fit, it was the wind work that really made the difference. He is 14.2hh and we competing successfully at BE90, but the galloping was always the hardest things to maintain and the start of every season saw us with time faults galore ... although by season end we had our pacing back. I needed to keep him light on his feet and a bit lean to even stand a chance. Also, don't have an arena. So it was all done out hacking, but hacking with loads of schooling - lateral work, lengthening, millions of transitions, esp strengthening transitions, walk to canter to walk to canter to walk ...

It was predominantly the same 5km route most mornings + a longer hack with proper gallop work, ground permitting, at weekends and either arena hire or competition 2-3 times per month. And fully clipped year round.

 

[P.forpony]

Canter work and feed!
Don't be afraid of feed if your doing the work to warrant it. My Connie absolutely needed it when she was hunting fit. She did well on saracens enduro performance, but I like straight oats too. She had a moderate amount most of the time, but we could increase a few days before a competition or as and when necessary.
You're not doing anything wrong, it's just the type, mine always needed twice as much work for twice as long to get as fit as the tb.

And canter is key, I was really lucky at the time to have access to a gigantic outdoor school so twice a week we would do interval work and I'd get up off her back, ask her to drop her head and just go forward, then completely leave her alone cantering big loops around the outside.

I'll put another vote for equilab too. I never canter as much as I think I have, and it helps to see what you're truly doing.

 

[SEL]

I also think some natives are a bit cheeky and think that when they've done their round then back to the lorry and a hay net please!

But perhaps some soaked grass nuts between rounds would help - its fibre so they can be ridden on them and can give a sugar boost (Simple Systems red bag are spring grass in a pellet)

 

[abbijay]

The one thing no one has raised on this thread yet is rider fitness. I'm not saying it is a factor in this but something to consider.
Are you as comfortable at the start of the first round as the end of the second? If you're tiring you can be harder for the pony to carry so it can have an impact. Do you do all that riding yourself? Do you ride anything else? Do you do other exercise to support yourself as an "athlete"? I find if I am only riding 1 horse with no other fitness work I struggle to compete at my best - and that doesn't have to be high level.
Good luck with your upcoming season.

 

[southerncomfort]

could you add in some interval training? the canter track seems like a good place for that!

I attended a TREC webinar recently, part of which covered fitness, and interval training was highly recommended.

 

[honetpot]

I have never had a native pony that can not do a rounds of sj or half a days hunting with very little work. Mine were turnrd out 24/7 in a group and they exercise themselves, ridden on hacks three/four days a week. I do clip in summer though so if needed you can feed more, and they are not constantly sweating.
They do get bored though. We did a photo shoot for a magazine which involved jumping the same two fences for about an hour, poor pony was not out of fuel but was just fed up, as she went past I got the look, when will this end?
Clever ponies learn quickly that silient protest, is very effective, and will do the minimal amount of work if they think they have done their job. I would worry that all that work was making them sour, they do not have a horse brain and having watched someone on a yard give her ponies the same amount of work as her warmblood, with little effect, apart from some very backward ponies,I think keeping them sweet is the key to success. You may not want to hear this, but sometimes doing less means you get more.

 

[maya2008]

The one thing no one has raised on this thread yet is rider fitness. I'm not saying it is a factor in this but something to consider.
Are you as comfortable at the start of the first round as the end of the second? If you're tiring you can be harder for the pony to carry so it can have an impact. Do you do all that riding yourself? Do you ride anything else? Do you do other exercise to support yourself as an "athlete"? I find if I am only riding 1 horse with no other fitness work I struggle to compete at my best - and that doesn't have to be high level.
Good luck with your upcoming season.

Both kids and I ride 2-3 times daily in the warmer months. Last summer my son had three to ride each day and would jump/school his, have a go on mine and sometimes ride his sister’s pony too at arena hire and shows. We went down to one ride a day for December, but we’re back up to one ride and one in-hand walk (youngsters) with daughter on Shetland and will be at 2 rides as soon as my current project is backed (my NF will happily go twice hacking without blinking!). Kids go swimming and do a sports club on top of that, as well as normal kid running around at the yard. I honestly don’t think it’s them.

For the dressage - I was riding my pony twice a day last summer (so two goes up the canter track!) so I could go with the kids on each ride as they had two each, then my son would go on his own for the last one. This year I’ll have two to ride.

I have downloaded Equilab and will find some larger arena hires where we can do canter circuits round the outside I think. Plus food - if we canter enough I won’t need to worry so much about their weight and can add more oats!!

 

[maya2008]

I have never had a native pony that can not do a rounds of sj or half a days hunting with very little work. Mine were turnrd out 24/7 in a group and they exercise themselves, ridden on hacks three/four days a week. I do clip in summer though so if needed you can feed more, and they are not constantly sweating.
They do get bored though. We did a photo shoot for a magazine which involved jumping the same two fences for about an hour, poor pony was not out of fuel but was just fed up, as she went past I got the look, when will this end?
Clever ponies learn quickly that silient protest, is very effective, and will do the minimal amount of work if they think they have done their job. I would worry that all that work was making them sour, they do not have a horse brain and having watched someone on a yard give her ponies the same amount of work as her warmblood, with little effect, apart from some very backward ponies,I think keeping them sweet is the key to success. You may not want to hear this, but sometimes doing less means you get more.

If I didn’t work them 6x a week in summer they’d be muzzled or obese and laminitic. I have always worked natives a lot in summer (sometimes twice a day) and never had them go sour - we’re currently on a 5x a week schedule and they are all begging to come out with the one being backed who’s doing every day at the moment on their ‘days off’, and sulking when they are ‘ride no.2’ on ride days.

Last summer, they came easily to be caught (and they live out so being caught only means work). When the lorry appeared for arena hire or shows there were pricked ears and keen ponies lining up at the gate. After the long ride each week (or a show) they had a day off and were clearly tired as they didn’t beg for attention. The day after they’d be at the gate wanting to come in and play again.

Our tack fits, teeth etc are done regularly, the kids aren’t allowed to ride anything but sensitively and the ponies enjoy their work. If they have hurt themselves or are feeling tired they can hang back and have time off.

I have timed our canter track today though - 1.5 minutes per stretch. So we were doing 10min of canter in bursts with quick trots down the hill in between. It felt like a lot, but it was only 2 rounds really - so when we add in a quick warm-up each time it kind of explains why we had issues!

We have struggled more at this field with fitness though, so I also think the comments about feed have value. The grass is noticeably poorer here than in previous fields we have had. Will tackle it from both ends as it were and see how it goes!

 

[AdorableAlice]

Swimming might help if you have access to a pool. Many racehorses have their fitness honed in the pool.

A friend had a heavyweight hunter that had time off for injury and put a shed load of weight on, the normal fitness routine didn't shift much weight even with a lot of trotting and cantering. Two weeks on livery at a pool centre and the horse came home looking like a racing snake and so fit his owner struggled to sit on it !

 

[honetpot]

If I didn’t work them 6x a week in summer they’d be muzzled or obese and laminitic. I have always worked natives a lot in summer (sometimes twice a day) and never had them go sour - we’re currently on a 5x a week schedule and they are all begging to come out with the one being backed who’s doing every day at the moment on their ‘days off’, and sulking when they are ‘ride no.2’ on ride days.

Last summer, they came easily to be caught (and they live out so being caught only means work). When the lorry appeared for arena hire or shows there were pricked ears and keen ponies lining up at the gate. After the long ride each week (or a show) they had a day off and were clearly tired as they didn’t beg for attention. The day after they’d be at the gate wanting to come in and play again.

Our tack fits, teeth etc are done regularly, the kids aren’t allowed to ride anything but sensitively and the ponies enjoy their work. If they have hurt themselves or are feeling tired they can hang back and have time off.

I have timed our canter track today though - 1.5 minutes per stretch. So we were doing 10min of canter in bursts with quick trots down the hill in between. It felt like a lot, but it was only 2 rounds really - so when we add in a quick warm-up each time it kind of explains why we had issues!

We have struggled more at this field with fitness though, so I also think the comments about feed have value. The grass is noticeably poorer here than in previous fields we have had. Will tackle it from both ends as it were and see how it goes!

I have mostly natives,Connemara, Highland,Welsh, IDx and the odd muttx. The best exercise is what they do themselves, they are have a modified track system around the edge of the field, in a long strip,with the water trough at one end. I also have a couple of ponies that are 'movers', and they tend to constantly move the others.
I do not know what shape your paddocks are but years of managing natives has taught me that the standard rough square, where they tend to stand in one place, there is a local livery yard which has this and looking at them as I pass there is very little social interaction,and they stand in eating what little grass they have, is the not really effective in controlling their weight, or keeping them fit.
Most of classes I used to do were sports pony classes, as mine would be too light for afilliated native showing, we would perhaps out of the top six in a native class but win sports pony, often with the entries in double figures. All out 24/7 and not muzzled, mainly unrugged and they hunted off of grass.

The only pony I have ever had with laminitis was a NF that came back off loan in summer, it was doing PC and SJ competitions, but was over 100kg on the weight tape above her normal weight. In the acute phase she was stabled and every thing she ate including straw was weighed, and soaked, and she lost very little weight. When she was eventually turned out with another for the winter unrugged that is when she went back to her normal weight. I find with weight management you have to be a least three months in front, and that includes the lighter ones that need extra feeding over winter.

 

[Hallo2012]

This reminds me of a horse I rode years ago, not a native, but hopefully still relevant. This horse was due to go to Badminton, long format, so it was a while ago! I was employed to make sure his dressage was kept up to the mark, the first time I rode him I schooled him for about 45mins and he worked well, but he got fairly sweaty and puffed a lot. I took him back to the yard and told them I was worried about his fitness, I knew the person who was responsible for his fitness, and she was excellent, but I was shocked at how he reacted to schooling. She laughed at me and told me to come back the next day and hack him. The next day she told me we would do average hacking, not fast work, we went out, and after walking a mile or so we started to trot round the fields, just a nice, active working trot, and we trotted forever, it was rising trot, my legs were on fire, I wanted to stop, I was knackered! The horse never faltered, never lost rhythm or power and after a gazillion miles wasnt even blowing. It brought it home to me very forcibily the difference between hacking and schooling fitness, and its true for all horses/ponies in my experience.

The horse skipped round Badminton no problem at all, his fitness was top notch.

this.

i suspect they are hacking fit but not schooling fit.

mine only schools twice (45min adv med level) and hacks once (1.5-2.5 hours mainly walk but some short sharp canters) and is plenty fit enough for what he does, never breaks a sweat much less puffs but thats because his competitions are very similar to his schooling work.

 

[RachelFerd]

Your showjumping round is 1m-1m30 of anaerobic type power work - so very different to hacking.

Your work sounds like it is more than enough in volume, but maybe not enough in quality. One of the things I do to build fitness at this time of year, when there is nowhere for proper hack/grass canter work is I do timed intervals in the arena, and I include some 'power' element to them. Mine is full thoroughbred and already reasonably fit, so the session I did on sunday was:

Arena set up - three cavaletti set up as a double bounce over X

10 minutes walk warm-up (as if I was warming up for dressage - lots of lateral work and transitions)

5 minutes in trot (again, quite dressagey, but focused on sharpness to the leg aids through transitions)

2 minutes in canter, changing the rein over the double bounce every 1.5 circuits of the arena

2 minutes walk recovery

2 minutes in canter with the double bounce every 1.5 circuits

2 minutes walk recovery

2 minutes in canter with the double bounce used as a figure of eight on every circuit

2 minutes walk recovery

2 minutes in canter with the double bounce on the figure eight every circuit

2 minutes stretchy trot recovery

10 minutes walk on a long rein

- So that's a 40 minute session in the arena, with lots of 'power' because the whole time I'm doing the canter intervals it is a punchy medium canter, and using the bounce cavaletti is a similar 'ask' to the power you'd keep asking a horse to use when doing a showjumping round.

As my horse is prepping for his spring events I'll start to reduce the recovery time down to 1 minute and increase the interval length up to 3 and 4 minutes. As the ground improves I start to take the sessions out into a big field so I can travel a bit faster and be less on the turn all the time (and lose the cavaletti element).

 

[maya2008]

Your showjumping round is 1m-1m30 of anaerobic type power work - so very different to hacking.

Your work sounds like it is more than enough in volume, but maybe not enough in quality. One of the things I do to build fitness at this time of year, when there is nowhere for proper hack/grass canter work is I do timed intervals in the arena, and I include some 'power' element to them. Mine is full thoroughbred and already reasonably fit, so the session I did on sunday was:

Arena set up - three cavaletti set up as a double bounce over X

10 minutes walk warm-up (as if I was warming up for dressage - lots of lateral work and transitions)

5 minutes in trot (again, quite dressagey, but focused on sharpness to the leg aids through transitions)

2 minutes in canter, changing the rein over the double bounce every 1.5 circuits of the arena

2 minutes walk recovery

2 minutes in canter with the double bounce every 1.5 circuits

2 minutes walk recovery

2 minutes in canter with the double bounce used as a figure of eight on every circuit

2 minutes walk recovery

2 minutes in canter with the double bounce on the figure eight every circuit

2 minutes stretchy trot recovery

10 minutes walk on a long rein

- So that's a 40 minute session in the arena, with lots of 'power' because the whole time I'm doing the canter intervals it is a punchy medium canter, and using the bounce cavaletti is a similar 'ask' to the power you'd keep asking a horse to use when doing a showjumping round.

As my horse is prepping for his spring events I'll start to reduce the recovery time down to 1 minute and increase the interval length up to 3 and 4 minutes. As the ground improves I start to take the sessions out into a big field so I can travel a bit faster and be less on the turn all the time (and lose the cavaletti element).

That’s really helpful thanks. I think I’ll look for a watch I can set for timings easily.

 

[RachelFerd]

That’s really helpful thanks. I think I’ll look for a watch I can set for timings easily.

I use my Garmin watch on cycling settings, but any old cheap stopwatch would also do the job. I just find it very helpful to be strict on timings and know *exactly* how much work I'm asking the horse to do in any given session.

 

[YourValentine]

Also, when you hack, at a walk are you marching along or cruising? A forward, up in the bridle purposeful marching walk builds fitness really well and is hard work. Needs to be a walk with a real bustle to it and you probably have to really ride/ insist to get it. Does that make sense?

When getting P2P's fit the long walking, up into the bridle, hacks of 4-5miles are as important as the fast work.

 

[maya2008]

I just wanted to say in general, to everyone who contributed… thank you! Any more input is obviously gratefully received but I have a good idea of what I need to do now, so thank you all very much! Equilab is also great, for anyone who finds this thread in the future!

 

[FitzyFitz]

On paper, that sounds like more than enough, but I would echo what previous posters have said about tracking to make sure you know what you're ACTUALLY doing and to focus on rider fitness. A fit rider can get a tired pony round, but a fit pony can be knackered by someone who isn't riding at their best.

Endless circles in a school isn't much fun or good for their legs, so make sure when you're hacking out it's an active marching walk working from behind, up and down hills and rough going if possible. Do leg yield back and forth across the lanes/tracks, do rein back (aim for 5-10 steps at a time) and plenty of transitions really helps them use their core and backside which will help their canter even if the ground is too hard to actually do much canter.
I like skipping gaits in transitions too, walk to canter, trot to halt etc once they are awake and listening (too early and you often end up doing messy transitions) as it sharpens them up and makes them really work for it to do a good job. Obviously this is hard work so don't over do it!

I'll leave the recommendations for the arena work and jumping side of things to someone else though, really not my forte!

 

[maya2008]

Ugh. Equilab doesn’t accurately record canter if you have a smallish or small pony. Not going fast enough. Checked it against a stopwatch and it was way out.

 

[mavandkaz]

Ugh. Equilab doesn’t accurately record canter if you have a smallish or small pony. Not going fast enough. Checked it against a stopwatch and it was way out.

Play about with where you put your phone - when I had it in my pocket it kept saying I was cantering when walking.
But if I shove it down the side of my long boot it is pretty much spot on.

 

[Julia0803]

Yes, I have to have it close to my body so the only movement is what my body is doing, rather than extra bouncing around in a coat or jumper pocket.

So I put it in a thigh pocket on my riding tights or if the pair doesn’t have a pocket, I put it in my waistband. Just anywhere where it’ll hold it close to me, tightly.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Just to echo what everyone has said - you are doing more than enough for general fitness but specificity is hugely important in any fitness training. You have to mimic the demands of the task you are training for. So for SJ that is sustained canter with jumps and lots of landing and turning. Lots of mental energy too. Canter intervals, gymnastic work, course riding are all important. I divide my year into training periods with the focus sometimes on base fitness and sometimes on specificity. I also think natives can be a bit lazy and act like they are more tired than they are too. Dolly needed revving up in warm ups to keep her sharp off the leg in SJ even though she was eventing fit and could quite happily do the work. I did feed Propell and competition mix in the build ip to events, too, to give her more zip. She easily made the time at BE90 by the end of the season but early season work had to be very intense to get her there.

 

[Carlosmum]

Bit late to the post, but have you had a vet check for heart and lungs? If stamina is not there, there might be an issue of heart/lungs not functioning as they should.

 

[maya2008]

Play about with where you put your phone - when I had it in my pocket it kept saying I was cantering when walking.
But if I shove it down the side of my long boot it is pretty much spot on.

I will try in my boot thanks. It sometimes records me as cantering, sometimes records canter as trot. Son on 11.2hh Welsh - apparently he only trots, despite the fact that I can see him cantering !

For school fitness work we timed it and 4 laps of my friend’s arena is 1 minute of canter, so can at least do it that way!

 

[maya2008]

Bit late to the post, but have you had a vet check for heart and lungs? If stamina is not there, there might be an issue of heart/lungs not functioning as they should.

I would if it was just one, but it’s all of them, so definitely a training/feed issue rather than anything else.

 

[marmalade76]

What are you trying to get them fit for?

I used to go bloodhounding on a NF. We were lucky, they lived at the bottom of Cleeve Hill (the hill you see in the background when you watch Cheltenham races on the TV) so we had steep hills and lots of fast work when we got on the top for a 2 - 2 1/2 hr ride then when we didn't have so much time there were three lanes that went up the hill that were connected by bridleways about half way up so you could trot up one, canter across the bridleway and come down another for a short workout. Regular fun rides are a good fittening tool too.

Once they are properly fit, it's fairly easy to keep them ticking over. It's easier if you've got something that's keen and forward going, harder if you've got something that's a bit bit lazy. So it's absolutely doable with natives but my guess would be that some are more capable that others and I'd say that would be an individual thing as well as a breed thing.