If your trainer hated your horse......

Hollycat

Hollycat

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Would you keep using the same trainer if they hated your horse? I keep my horse at a very small yard. YO is a good friend and is an excellent rider and has been schooling my horse 2x a week while I have been on a course. Sadly I suspect they hate each other. Although she has really improved his way of going and taught him flying changes, he naps REALLY badly with her. Teeth, back, saddle etc checked and fine. A few days on bute made no difference so I suspect the napping is from confusion/annoyance and not from pain - particularly since he does not nap with me.

She is a successful dressage rider and rides very differently from me. She insists on a very strong contact with his mouth which he hates combined with driving him forward strongly. She works him hard very rarely lets him have a break and stretch. As she dislikes him she almost never praises him and is always putting him down to me - complaining he is lazy, doesn't want to work, the wrong shape for dressage etc. I admittedly don't have him as engaged when I ride him so he's not as expressive - but he still does all the same movements in balance and he's very willing to please me and enjoys his work. I am not interested in competing and just like pottering around at home. He is working at medium level.

They had a terrible session earlier in the week - he spent most of it going backwards and both of them were furious. I have deceided not to have her school him any more but am unsure about whether to continue with lessons. I really enjoy my lessons and she has a HUGE amount to teach me but she insists I use this very strong contact which I hate. She doesn't want to listen when I say I'm not comfortable with it and tells me its the only way to do dressage. I have ridden a few classically trained horses that were trained to work on a lighter contact so I can't see why I can't ride that way but she won't compromise. I am not talking about washing line reins, just a light contact which he goes into happily instead of backing off and being tense as he is with a strong contact. I get round the rest probs in my lessons by telling her I need a rest(!) so when I feel he needs it I stop and let him stretch.

I'm not sure if I might be better with a trainer who actually likes my horse and will work with him (and me) instead of being unyielding and trying to force him. She is a good friend and a lovely person (sorry if I've sounded bitchy) so I don't want to upset her. I think she would be horrifed if she read this as I know she genuinely thinks this is the only way to ride/teach my horse and she probably thinks she hides her dislike of him well. What should I do? How could I bring up having lessons from someone else? I would rather not have lessons at all than hurt her as she is having a hard time just now and her friendship means more to me than dressage!
 
Perhaps a break for a month or so (feign money issues?!) and have a think about it.

Would you have to go elsewhere for lessons, or could you have someone come to the yard to teach you?

Perhaps after the break, you could say that you want to have lessons again, but that you want to discuss what direction you want to go in, and therefore enable a discussion about aims and methods?
 
You sound like you have given her way a good go and it doesn't work for you and your horse. If she is your trainer and presumably a more effective rider than you and she is having the problems you describe then how can you possibly get your horse to work in that way? They are individuals and a good rider/trainer recognizes that and can get the best out of any type of horse by varying what they are doing not forcing the horse to adapt to their riding. I have had lessons with eminent dressage trainers and judges and they always wanted a light contact so I agree with what you've said. If you ride in a totally different way to her your horse will be getting conflicting messages and is probably napping out of frustration because he doesn't understand. I'd blame finances and say you need to lay off the lessons.
 
What a hard situation to be in...

My dressage trainer loves my horse, and she is 100% with me all the way, she helps me achieve my goals and her style of riding suits me down to the ground. I wouldn't be without her. I have occasionally gone to other trainers (to jump) but she is not offended at all as i use her regardless.

If she is a good friend she will understand you wanting to go to a trainer who may be 'more sympathetic' to both you and your horse. She may even be relieved since she appears not to like him.

Best of luck x
 
If you dont like her methods (and it sounds like you have every right not to) then dont use her. There are plenty of people out there who's methods you'll agree with and who will work for the ood of your horse.
 
This sounds quite a stressful situation. I would give it a break as Didir says and then think of a way of getting someone else. She may be your mate but you're obviously not happy with the way things are going. You'd be much happier with someone who thinks more like you. It's accepted that there are many different methods of riding, can you not just say you would like to explore classical equitation for example and look for an instructor who specialises in that. I keep my horse at a friends farm and we get on great but we have slightly different methods of handling and riding. At first I used to be worried about offending her but in the end I just had to put my foot down, they're my horses and I have to look after them the way I think is right by me. She wasn't amused at first but now we aqree to differ and we get on fine.
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I would stop her from riding him if you are not happy with the way it is going, I am like you and do not like a strong contact so I can see how it would upset you.
If you can find a way to get out of the lessons I would do that too, I can't think of a way, sorry. I use two trainers myself, one is a very good friend now, but I am lucky as we have the same views on how we like to ride. Perhaps if she is such a good friend you can say to her that this style of riding she is wanting you to use does not come easily to you, and you are strugling with it and can you both try and work out a way that comes more easily to you as a rider, but also helps improve the horse's way of going as well as your riding.
 
It soundsto me like you have given her methods a fair go and if you don't like the way she rides or wants you to ride, then it is time to look for someone new.

Jack's trainer didn't have a good word to say for him for such a long time - he does have problems because he has had broken withers and she really didn't like him at first and said she would hate to ride himbut he's really proven himself to her and she to me. She has convinced him - through Char-Lottie - that the correct way of going is easier than his way, that he has developed to avoid pain obviously and he is now starting to work very beautifully. His trainer now enthuses about him and said the other week that she would like to ride him. It as taken somemonths but the threeof them - Jack,Char-Lottie and trainer - have a really good thing going. That is what you need to find, a trainer who is sympathetic to you, your horse and his needs and can work with them not fight against.
 
I had exactly the same problem, she ould get on my horse and send him backwards, wanting a really strong contact, I hated it and I ended up spending the whole lesson trying to defend my boy, he wasnt bad just didnt know what I wanted!!! So I learnt nothing at all, so in the end I found someone else he charges far more, but when I leave the yard each time after a lesson I feel that we have achieved something, and we have our dressage scores up by nearly 10% its so lovely when i cant get something and i moan i hate him he just says its not his fault you know you dont mean it my last instructor would have just agreed
 
Thanks guys! I think your right and a break is in order. I genuinely have money probs so don't need to fake that, lol. I achieved what I set out to achieve with her schooling him - he is now a lot more supple and engaged. I have finished my course and am riding him again so I just need to work on keeping that suppleness.

I have had a little brainwave. I am teaching him to jump just now so maybe I can bring in a jumpng instructor for some jump lessons? Preferably someone that can help me with flatwork too.
 
I'm afraid I disagree with your trainer - you do not have to have a very strong contact to ride your horse correctly, teach him movements or have him move forward off the leg or soften into collection. It is perfectly possible to have your horse do all of this on a light soft elastic contact. I believe the stronger the contact the more dead in the mouth the horse becomes which is why some advanced horses are only ridden in double bridles as they longer respond and work correctly in a snaffle (I'm not referring to when competing but general work at home). We are all entitled to our opinion and the way we like to do things - I have a very sympathetic dressage instructor that fits in with my way of thinking and allows the horse to be free and expressive whilst working correctly. There will be someone like this for you - and one that loves your horse too. I think you are right to stop the arrangement where she rides him for you - I can't believe either of them get anything out of it if they clearly don't get on.
Stick to your guns - he is your horse and you get to choose what happens!
 
explain that you don't want to ride him that way, and go to someone else. it is totaly rubbish that that's "the only way" to ride horses at dressage. the horse should be light and soft in the hand if at all possible, good for you for having the right idea.
priorities-wise, i'd put my horse going happily with me well above her uncompromising attitude tbh. she knows very very little if she thinks that's the only way to do things, and your horse sounds as if he's being pushed near to the end of his tether. i've known horses who would have gone over backwards if ridden like that.
 
Thanks for everyones support! I am glad that I am not thinking on the wrong lines re the contact. I am not the worlds best rider and I lack confidence so sometimes I do question whether I am right, particualrly if faced wth someone that knows a lot more about a topic than me.

I believe that a horse can work well on a soft contact and I am glad that so many people here do too. I am very lucky that my horse has competed at advanced level in Holland (similar to advanced medium here but no changes) so he knows a lot himself and has a lot to teach me. In many ways he is the best teacher of all!
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I'm looking forward to teaching him to jump and letting him have some fun as I feel pretty guilty that he has obviously not been enjoying being schooled for the last few weeks
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show her the video of Blue Hors Matine's test, it's on Youtube. that horse is light and soft and happy the whole way through. it's a real lesson to us all and always brings tears to my eyes.
stick to your guns. it's your horse!
 
My yo hates my mare with a passion - I have caught her callin my mare everything under the sun and telling someone to be careful of her that she will flatten you with a kick - my mare has never kicked anyone!!! I was looking for lessons recently and I refused the offer of lessons from the YO for this very reason. I can't see how they would be of any benefit to me when the YO has no understanding of what my mare is like. They are terrified of her in the yard lessons just wouldn't work. Mare hasn't done anything to them.
 
At the end of the day us lot having hoses is because it's fun and also because we are sligtly bonkers - anyway if it's not fun then something is wrong. It's too expensive a 'hobby' for it not to be enjoyable. I'd explain to her that you've 'decided' that you're going to take a break from dressage and that you just want to potter about bit and just have fun by doing a bit of jumping here/ fun ride there meanwhile you're going to another trainer and getting sympathetic (sp) training from someone who doesn't think that horses are robots and should all be trained in the same manner. I'm guessing you have transport... I'm waffling aren't I. Anyway, I'd get myself to another trainer by hook or by crook. Good luck xxx.
 
I had a similar problem. I had a couple of lessons with someone who insisted her way of doing things was the only way and when I pointed out my horse was unhappy she told me "he has to learn to accept it because its correct" On the third lesson I stormed out halfway through. I think she probably hated me as much as my horse!
You know what works for your horse and its important to find someone who works with you, not against you. Definately time for a new trainer!
 
What is this with the "strong contact"?!?! Imagine having a piece of metal across your gums with someone pulling on the other end of it?!?! There is no need and you cannot convince me that any horse is comfortable and "correct" in such a situation.
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Anyhow, that's my problem.
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As far as the OPs question, it does seem you've come to a good conclusion so all we're doing now it supporting you. I would not keep a horse with anyone who "hated" it (nor would I take a horse in a professional capacity I hated, although I've never met one yet) for the simple reason that it's unprofessional and I cannot see how anyone could expect to produce a "happy athlete" under such circumstances. As people have said, if someone thinks there is only one way to have a conversation with a horse that in itself is a big red flag. The horse feeling clearly unhappy - it honestly sounds like she's making him hurt - with the situation is another. Yes, arguments happen and sometimes necessary correction is messy but if it goes on and on it's a problem not a solution.

You could probably both do with a bit of a break and then hopefully you'll find a jumping trainer who will be able to facilitate a more peaceful form of progress with your horse.

Good luck.
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I think she would be horrifed if she read this as I know she genuinely thinks this is the only way to ride/teach my horse and she probably thinks she hides her dislike of him well. What should I do? How could I bring up having lessons from someone else? I would rather not have lessons at all than hurt her as she is having a hard time just now and her friendship means more to me than dressage!


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I think this is the most important statement. I think you need to sit down over a cup of something and have a good long chat about your aims and aspirations with your horse as she is your friend as well as your instructor.
 
That is a good point, burtie but I think the OP has to be careful she doesn't sacrifice her own peace of mind and her horse's well being for the sake of her friendship - it doesn't have to be a choice!

The other telling point is that she HAS discussed the situation with her friend/instructor and has apparently been told that not only is the current course the *only* option but that the horse's (and her own) unhappiness with the situation is irrelevant.

That said, a good conversation is in order, you're right. Perhaps the instructor could use a friend more than a client right now? I don't agree with all my friends on professional/riding matters so we just agree to disagree and move on.

It's almost inevitable for the personal and the professional to get muddle in horses, though - so many people take what are actually business decisions emotionally and see choosing to disagree as disloyalty. Part of the problem is that while friends usually have a relatively even balance of power in the relationship that is almost never the case in professional horsey relationships so combing the two successfully can be a bit of a trick if things aren't going well on the horse end. (So many people think they have great relationships with their instructors/clients/students/employees etc and are genuinely confused if drama creeps in when something goes wrong.)

I am the major proponent of honest communication (to a fault in some people's opinions
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) but this is a tricky one. As a friend, it would be very difficult for the OP to tell her instructor she thinks she's *wrong* - no one wants to hear that from a friend. It's also not constructive - it doesn't seem the instructor thinks she's wrong or will be convinced otherwise, at least not by the OP. It's not the same as pointing out something someone is unaware of.

So yes, the OP does have to talk to her friend but she's not under any obligation to defend what is really a business decision, especially if to do so is going to stress her out or cause upset. Might be best to just take a break and go another way, valuing peace and keeping the friendship intact over looking to adjust the current situation. I think the worst choice is to let things go on as they are - the OP is clearly upset and torn, which is not a good place to be with a friend. Of course, none of us have seen the real situation so can only guess but I would suspect if things go on as they are it might very well end in a real problem (hurt horse or rider, unforgivable blow up) that hurts the friendship as well.

Btw, it's hardly unknown for people going through tough times to show it in their riding, usually without being aware. But that doesn't change the fact that there is a horse involved, or that anyone paying for a service deserves more care. As a friend, though, it should be a red flag for concern and perhaps even a jumping off point for a supportive conversation.
 
I would definitely have a break, my trainer has my utmost respect, she does make me ride more strongly than usual, but I am usually quite lazy/ easily pleased
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There are times when my lad has a tantrum about new or difficult things, but we always work through it, and most importantly I know she adores/ admires my horse.
Sounds like you trainer has a downer on your horse, and that doesnt make it easy for anyone.
 
This is a difficult one, i have been in this situation with my trainer(international rider), He didn't get on with the horse (just wasn't his type of horse) and although he did a superb job improving him i called it a day with the training, as i just know that if you don't like riding something you tend to be less sympathetic and tolerant and it's just not fair on the horse. I still remain great pals with him and have sent others to be schooled by him, but these two just didn't click. In the end i sent him to someone else who was just as disciplined with him but loved riding him, the horse looked as though he had a permanent smile on his face even when she was telling him off!!I just think you have to be honest. choose someone more on yours and your horses wavelength....on a personal note i don't like to see Horses going on a really tight strong contact, how can it be comortable for the horse, and how can you get a good, willing, fluid tune out of him ... i don't know maybe you can, but to me there's something magic about seeing a really good pair of quiet sympathetic hands, it's an art that so few people have. good luck!!
 
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