Ignorant Dog Walker!!!

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SallySausage1

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Hi!
We are sheep farmers and are HUGE dog lovers - having 4 of our own.

Our livestock are extremely precious to us and we consider our lovely flock of ewes as our 'girls'!!

We are very 'pro' walkers and dog walkers on our land as long as they are responsible and don't upset our flock or cause any danger towards our flock.

Sometimes we get dog walkers who let their dogs off the lead - and we nicely tell them to keep their dogs on the lead around the sheep (as well as there being a very bold notice that they must see when they walk onto our land!).
MOST do this straight away and there's not a problem.
However - there is one man whose dog chased our sheep more a month ago - me and my other half saw the dog chasing our ewes and lambs and we told the man to put his dog on a lead - which he didnt!!!! His dog was out of control and the man was making NO EFFORT TO CONTROL it at all!!

The next time we saw this man - I told him his dog NEEDS to be on a lead when its around my sheep - to which he replied "but she doesnt like it on her lead....." and "it wont happen again..." - all in all a very patronising man who thinks he has more rights than us and our livestock!!!!

I just wanted some advice - where do I stand legally on this???

Can I report him to the police? I've seen him 2 times now since I told him and both times his dog is OFF the lead.

I know about shooting a dog if its seriously upsetting the sheep and having dangerously.

I just really want to know where I stand legally on the matter of can I enforce dogs to be on a lead and are there any penalities for dog owners not respecting the land owners wishes??

Can anyone shed any light on the matter?

Thanks!
 
Next time you see him, I would just say that this is his warning, the dog is harassing YOUR sheep, and you WILL shoot it.
 
About 10 years ago. My Dad had same problem with ignorant dogs walker and his cattle told the chap 3 times that if he did it again he would shoot the dog. On the third time he had his gun with him. The man reported Dad to the police for threatening him with a gun. Police came down to the farm listened to Dad and went away telling him he would be within his rights to shoot the dogs if they were without an owner on his land. I gather that the also told the chap this. A couple of months went by no dogs. It was short lived the dogs returned and this time Dad lost one of his calves when it ran head long into fence broke it's neck. He returned to paddocks and shot one of the dogs. Other dogs never seen again.
 
I second the broken shotgun approach. Carry it with you when ever you see him, amend you posters to the effect that any dog caught worrying the sheep will be shot on sight. And unfortunately you may need to carry out your threat. Your sheep are your livliehood. Any idiot knows that it is against teh law to allow a dog to worry livestock.
 
Yet again irresponsible owners, not the dog's fault but it ends up being dead due to lack of control, not the farmers fault far from it, just wish people wouldn't be so pig headed
 
Bosworth said:
I second the broken shotgun approach. Carry it with you when ever you see him, amend you posters to the effect that any dog caught worrying the sheep will be shot on sight. And unfortunately you may need to carry out your threat. Your sheep are your livliehood. Any idiot knows that it is against teh law to allow a dog to worry livestock.
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I agree with this too, it may only take a shot into the air (a miss on purpose) to deter this bloke, just to let him know the threat will be carried through
 
All good advice, thanks!
As it stands the dog is thankfully being well behaved the 2 times I've seen it but its just the mans absolute arrogance that really riles me!! I've asked him nicely but he doesn't get it- and says "she won't do it again..." Well he can't guarantee that can he??
The last thing I'd ever want to do it shoot a dog- but if it ever hurt any of the sheep I think protective instincts would kick in!!
I like the idea of shooting an air rifle into the sky just to 'frighten' him, I know where he lives so could try writing a letter?
It seems ridiculous that I would have to justify my reasons for protecting my livestock - why do some dog walkers think they are superior to everyone else??!
 
There are standard notices up around her that state clearly that loose dogs will be shot,and hereabouts I think they would be,it is a well known country rule.
 
Most people who have an ounce of decency and common sense would respect it wouldn't they. Unfortunately its the arrogant and stupid minority that give them a bad name!
 
We have pedigree Texels. Regardless though of what breed they are I would happily shoot any dog causing trouble to our sheep, I have the overwhelming memory of my fathers flock of sheep after 2 large dogs attacked them, I was about 8, it is something i hope to never see again.
Put up signs at your bounderies stating uncontrolled dogs will be shot and don't be afraid to do it. If you see the walker tell him your plans, if he brings up 'my dog doesn't like being on the lead' tell him it probably won't like being dead either!
 
Haha! Good comeback!!
I read somewhere that it was illegal to have signs like that though? Our sign is a bright yellow one that says 'all dogs must be kept on a lead at all time, livestock present'. The man walks past this sign everytime yet chooses not to respect it. I don't understand how people can be so arrogant. If one of my dogs ever did that on anyones land I would bend over backwards to keep the peace with the land owner! Its almost like he enjoys being difficult though.
When I said to him I'd call the police he said 'I've got them on speed dial' and then told me to ****** off!! Unbelievable.
 
jrp204 said:
Put up signs at your bounderies stating uncontrolled dogs will be shot and don't be afraid to do it. If you see the walker tell him your plans, if he brings up 'my dog doesn't like being on the lead' tell him it probably won't like being dead either!
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Agree, if it doesn't like being on the lead find somewhere more appropriate to walk the dog then.
If you know where he lives what about taking your 4 dogs down to run riot over his garden, bet he wouldn't like that much.
I wouldn't like it done to me so I wouldn't do it to other people.
 
SallySausage1 said:
Haha! Good comeback!!
I read somewhere that it was illegal to have signs like that though? Our sign is a bright yellow one that says 'all dogs must be kept on a lead at all time, livestock present'. The man walks past this sign everytime yet chooses not to respect it. I don't understand how people can be so arrogant. If one of my dogs ever did that on anyones land I would bend over backwards to keep the peace with the land owner! Its almost like he enjoys being difficult though.
When I said to him I'd call the police he said 'I've got them on speed dial' and then told me to ****** off!! Unbelievable.
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Are you in the NFU/TFA? ring the helpline to see where you stand on sign wording. This bloke sounds like a bully and is getting away with it, if he has a fairly regular time he walks the path, are you able to 'meet' him at your boundary and decline him access if he fails to put his dog on a lead? He may have the police on speed dial but so may you, press that call button, he committing a criminal offence.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/1-2/28
http://www.shootingtimes.co.uk/sportinganswers/294866/What039s_the_law_on_dogs_worrying_sheep.html
 
jrp204 said:
Are you in the NFU/TFA? ring the helpline to see where you stand on sign wording. This bloke sounds like a bully and is getting away with it, if he has a fairly regular time he walks the path, are you able to 'meet' him at your boundary and decline him access if he fails to put his dog on a lead? He may have the police on speed dial but so may you, press that call button, he committing a criminal offence.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/1-2/28
http://www.shootingtimes.co.uk/sportinganswers/294866/What039s_the_law_on_dogs_worrying_sheep.html
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According to the legislation on the above link then he is already breaking the law
'being at large (that is to say not on a lead or otherwise under close control) in a field or enclosure in which there are sheep', could you print this page (would possibly leave off the fact that he would only be fined £10 for 1st offence and £50 for the second offence, no wonder farmers shoot them those fines are hardly likely to put anyone off)
 
We have a notice on our gate and stile that says

' All dogs must be on a lead or kept on close heel at all times, You will not get a second chance. Your dog WILL be shot.'

Slightly cruel but after loosing two prizewinning ewe's got savaged we decided that it would be best. Amazingly we haven't had a problem since
 
Yes we are with the NFU - thats a good idea about ringing them actually, I'm sure they could help in some way.

Its such a bloody shame some people can be so disruptive and ignorant.

We'll get there in the end I hope, I suppose I should be thankful none of the ewes have been injured yet. It would break my heart to see one of my sheep in agony because of a wreckless human being!!!

Failing that I did think about getting a bull to put in the field and putting a sign up saying "THIS BULL WILL CHASE and KILL LOOSE DOGS"....haha.
 
You don't say you actually have a footpath / right of way across your land? Take a video of the loose dogs, and better still of him refusing to put them on a lead and then present the evidence to the local dog warden AND police. On the firearms note, even firing an air rifle into the air will be considered threatening with a firearm and you could land in hot water. Uunfortunately UK property owners are devoid of rights to protect their own land by force, no matter how "mild" that force may be.
 
No need to even warn,loose dogs amongst sheep..you are within the countryside code and the law to shoot.Forget videos ,no prosecution will result. I believe the NFU might even sell the nice big notices.
 
EAST KENT said:
No need to even warn,loose dogs amongst sheep..you are within the countryside code and the law to shoot.Forget videos ,no prosecution will result. I believe the NFU might even sell the nice big notices.
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No need to warn the dogs but threatening the owner of the dog even with an unloaded firearm is illegal. I have just been on the phone with a friend who is a chief firearms officer in the UK and he quotes the law as "Threatening others with an air weapon (even if unloaded) to cause them to fear unlawful violence 10 years imprisonment and / or appropriate fine."

If the dog is unaccompanied then it is one thing worrying and attacking sheep but if the owner is present the correct legal route is to get the police involved first.

Yes, I sympathise, we have livestock and problems too with loose dogs and no footpaths or rights of way across our land.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...im2HvA&sig=AHIEtbS3KNVxDaynqvTZMXD2r4JnXAXSaQ
 
[

'If the dog is unaccompanied then it is one thing worrying and attacking sheep but if the owner is present the correct legal route is to get the police involved first.'
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/1-2/28

For the purposes of this Act worrying livestock means—.

(a)attacking livestock, or.

(b)chasing livestock in such a way as may reasonably be expected to cause injury or suffering to the livestock or, in the case of females, abortion, or loss of or diminution in their produce..

[F1or

(c)being at large (that is to say not on a lead or otherwise under close control) in a field or enclosure in which there are sheep]
 
A few years ago I lost, over a couple of years about 50 ewes and lambs to my then neighbours dog.
The dog had been seen killing a ewe, not mine, and the sheep owner agreed that they could keep the lurcher providing it was let on a lead and muzzled when outside. They did this for about three months and then thought the dog would have 'forgotten' and let him run loose.
He then took on my sheep and there was often carnage out there. 17 well grown lambs in one night. Another he tore the udders out of four ewes and mauled my old girl.
The owners denied he had ever been out but I knew differently.
I had involved the police every time and was advised to just shoot the bloody thing.
Eventually one morning I heard them calling the dog - I was just about to go ot o a ride so I put the horse in the stable and got my gun and waited.
It had only been a few days before he had mauled the ewes which were now in the home field.
It wasn't long before we saw him in the field where he had done the ewe damage and then he lode about, saw where the sheep were and quietly trotted into their field. I waited until he actually attacked and took him out with a heart shot. I quickly put another in his head and that was it. Called the police and when the cop came he asked me if the dog had actually grabbed a sheep. I said not so he picked up some fleece and jammed it in the dogs teeth saying, 'Yes he did!'
He returned the dog and all hell broke loose. They had a PM done and their vet reported that he had no lamb meat in his belly. He had never actually fed on a kill, just ripped their throats out or with the ewes tore their udders. Nor, it was reported was their any wool in his teeth.

Legally they never had a leg to stand on and yet they tried to intimidate me. I received solicitors letters and through these letters found out that the vet they had used was homeopathic so not qualified to do a PM.
I then had a letter from a barrister. I bothered to reply to this by saying that whatever the court date I would be there - not only was the dog shot with a .22 but also with a Sanyo video recorder so would there be a video player in court or should I bring one?

That was the end of the saga.

I have absolutely no enjoyment in shooting a healthy dog because of the ignorance of the owner but I have the right to when it comes to protecting my stock.

Do the same if necessary.

I walk with my pack all over the place. If there are sheep then they are all told to come in and will walk behind me under control. They know better than to even look at any stock.

Having said that they are flummoxed at the moment as I have a friends two sows in a rough paddock I want rooting up and as they have never had any close contact with pigs before they are all being terribly brave and standing there barking when the pigs come up for their feed.
I am certain that they are more afraid of the sows than they are of the electric fence keeping them in!
 
SallySausage1 said:
Yes we are with the NFU - thats a good idea about ringing them actually, I'm sure they could help in some way.

Its such a bloody shame some people can be so disruptive and ignorant.

We'll get there in the end I hope, I suppose I should be thankful none of the ewes have been injured yet. It would break my heart to see one of my sheep in agony because of a wreckless human being!!!

Failing that I did think about getting a bull to put in the field and putting a sign up saying "THIS BULL WILL CHASE and KILL LOOSE DOGS"....haha.
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I've got a couple of horses like that if you want them!!!!
 
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