Ignorant...Or missunderstood?

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Mosh

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I was talking to a friend today about the disciplines in the equine world, mainly about Eventing, Showjumping and Dressage.
My friend is quite horsey but said "I think eventers are the best riders, because they have to be good at all 3 aspects"

Now that stunned me for a minute or so, because I'm in complete disagreement. I think if you're the top rider than it takes dedication and you have to bl*ody good no matter what it is you do! Each sport is different and therefore harder for different reasons and the mental preperation is also extremely hard, I don't think she realises how hard it is to learn a dressage test or jump a clean and forward Showjumping round or even riding weston at a high level.
Now I don't think my horsey friend....is quite as horsey as I thought....or just ignorant
 
I may be shot down for this but part of me does agree with her to some extent.
The riders have to be able to work the horse well enough for a very high standard dressage test, have the guts, courage, confidence and ability to train and take them around the XC and they also have to have the ability to produce a clear round not to mention the fitness and the mental capabiilities to do all three one after another.
Don'tget me wrong every rider (especially top riders) have to have the dedication and ability to do well regardless of their dicipline.
 
Some people would argue that eventers are merely average SJ and dressagers! (Not me I hasten to add!)
I think the really skilled horse riders would be good no matter what they decided to do, they just do their particular discipline because thats what they enjoy/have always done/etc.

ETA - Even if that means they just hack!!
 
She's ignorant because she has a different opinion than you?

You're going to be dealing with a hell of a lot of ignorant people throughout life in that case.
 
Jack of all trades, master of none. Comes to mind when describing eventers.

The question is what do you value higher? The ability to do all three phases at a reasonable standard or the ability to do one of the individual phases, dressage or showjumping, to the very highest of levels?
 
I'm thinking along the same lines as The_Henmeister.

I think it was more the way she said it and that, because someone does pure dressage then they are going to be no good at jumping etc, or brave enough to go XC.

If you're the top of your sport then you have to be good, doesn't matter what you do.

And no, shes not ignorant because we have a different opinion, it was more to with the fact that i don't think she realised how hard "single" disciplines can be. Shes entitled to her own opinion and thats fine with me, it was just an interesting thing to say, thats all
 
I think eventers have to be exceptionally versatile - If you do dressage or SJ then you have one mindset and focus. To do all three takes a chameleon of sorts who can adapt to different scenarios and pressures. I don't think that makes them a better rider, just a more flexible/versatile one.

I guess you can argue both ways - Jack of all trades & master of none or, to use a work analogy, generalist (ie the MD) or specialist (the accountant).....
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I may be shot down for this but part of me does agree with her to some extent.
The riders have to be able to work the horse well enough for a very high standard dressage test, have the guts, courage, confidence and ability to train and take them around the XC and they also have to have the ability to produce a clear round not to mention the fitness and the mental capabiilities to do all three one after another.
Don'tget me wrong every rider (especially top riders) have to have the dedication and ability to do well regardless of their dicipline.

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But then both top SJ and dressage have comps which last more than one day, the pressure heaped on them in big rings must be enormous, how many eventers ride in front of huge crowds regularly??
Having guts does not make you a good rider, my Dad is often saying how thin the line is between bravery and stupidity.

I don't think being a good rider has anything to do with your chosen discipline. Just because SJers purely SJ or Dressagers purely Dressage does not mean that they could not be very good Eventers, it just means they don't choose too!
And if we are talking in terms of disciplines then Jockeys get my vote!!
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[ QUOTE ]
I may be shot down for this but part of me does agree with her to some extent.
The riders have to be able to work the horse well enough for a very high standard dressage test, have the guts, courage, confidence and ability to train and take them around the XC and they also have to have the ability to produce a clear round not to mention the fitness and the mental capabiilities to do all three one after another.
Don'tget me wrong every rider (especially top riders) have to have the dedication and ability to do well regardless of their dicipline.

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couldnt have put it better myself....these riders are so adaptable....obviously they are riding eventers not grand prix dressage neds...or grade a's...completely different these guys are riding the PERFECT 3 day eventers....each discipline needs soo much dedication,i take my hat off to the eventers to manage 3
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"Eventing is for gifted amateurs."

*ducks* Not my words - instead, those of a highly respected, very good friend of mine!
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I have to say, having scrutinised the riding skills/accuracy of riders across all disciplines, I tend to agree with him in some ways. Most top show jumpers would be capable of riding a good dressage test - after all, if the training is done properly (and I am fully aware that in some cases, too many short cuts are taken) then show jumpers need to be lithe, agile, balanced and responsive - dressage should almost come naturally to them. Likewise, although their technical accuracy and precision may present disadvantages in terms of speed and bravery across country, most show jumpers would be perfectly capable of jumping a good XC round, if they so chose! However, the show jumping efforts of some eventers appalls me - I love watching eventing, but always sit with my hands over my eyes in the final discipline. And so I have to say, I have always viewed eventing a little as I would tri/pentathlon etc - the riders have to be of a high standard in each discipline, without being of an exceptional standard in any single one.
 
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the riders have to be of a high standard in each discipline, without being of an exceptional standard in any single one.

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I would disagree there, Eventers are XC riders pure and simple, they SJ and dressage because they have too, and are good at it for the same reasons.
But I would doubt that a SJ or a Dressage rider would ride a better XC round than an Eventer, in the same way an Eventer would not necessarily ride better at SJ or Dressage.
 
Also, You have to be exceptionally brave to compete at all, even if its local RC or badminton, from your gymkhana races to he grand national. It takes skill and bravery to carry on through the good, the bad and the ugly times.
 
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the riders have to be of a high standard in each discipline, without being of an exceptional standard in any single one.

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I would disagree there, Eventers are XC riders pure and simple, they SJ and dressage because they have too, and are good at it for the same reasons.
But I would doubt that a SJ or a Dressage rider would ride a better XC round than an Eventer, in the same way an Eventer would not necessarily ride better at SJ or Dressage.

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Hmmm.....but here's a question for you: do you actually think it takes talent to ride a good cross country round? I would say it's more about bravery and stamina than talent - plus I'd place a fair bet that most Irish show jumpers would be able to ride a darn good XC round if given the chance
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Just want to add that I am in no way demeaning event riders. I am sat here watching Mark Todd and am in awe of his stamina and bravery
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Yep, it takes talent to ride a good, safe XC round, seeing a stride from a gallop, knowing when to interfere and knowing when to sit behind the horse and let him take over. Thinking quickly is possibly one of the biggest skills an eventer has.

Did you see the eventer's derby?? Some of the SJers round like absolute fools when presented with XC fences, either over controlling or completely hooning into the fences, TBH is wasn't nice to watch.
 
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Yep, it takes talent to ride a good, safe XC round, seeing a stride from a gallop, knowing when to interfere and knowing when to sit behind the horse and let him take over. Thinking quickly is possibly one of the biggest skills an eventer has.

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Sure, I dont disagree with you there - but I still think a lot of eventing is done on a wing and a prayer type basis. The 'good, safe' rounds tend to be the ones that are heaped with time faults, eg. Toddy's round a minute ago. You cannot get away with just sitting back and praying in show jumping, that much is certain!

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Did you see the eventer's derby?? Some of the SJers round like absolute fools when presented with XC fences, either over controlling or completely hooning into the fences, TBH is wasn't nice to watch.

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Didnt see this year's, but have been to watch it before. I have to say I've been unimpressed with the efforts in that class on both the show jumpers and the eventers' parts! Still, I dont think the class is an overly good indicator - you cannot mix XC fences and show jumps, and expect to see the same result as you would if each competitor had to jump two different rounds! Any horse that has had a taster of galloping across country is likely to flatten if it goes straight back to coloured fences.
 
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But then both top SJ and dressage have comps which last more than one day, the pressure heaped on them in big rings must be enormous, how many eventers ride in front of huge crowds regularly??
Having guts does not make you a good rider, my Dad is often saying how thin the line is between bravery and stupidity.

I don't think being a good rider has anything to do with your chosen discipline. Just because SJers purely SJ or Dressagers purely Dressage does not mean that they could not be very good Eventers, it just means they don't choose too!
And if we are talking in terms of disciplines then Jockeys get my vote!!
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I don't really agree to be honest. I know that SJ and dressage comps last more than one day but it is the same dicipline, and their mentality does not need to stray far from the norm, unlike an eventers.
Competing in front of a huge crowd does not make a good rider nor a sucessful one. The pressure on every rider in any dicipline is enormous even for eventers.
Having guts does make you a good rider, I am sorry but you cannot go clear around a 5* without guts, I am sure not every SJer or Dressage rider has the guts to ride that course, surley that counts for something?
 
Sjers jump 1m60, I know many eventers that would not go near SJs that big, therefore Sjers are bravers in their discipline than Eventers, the same way that Eventers are braver XC.
If guts make a good rider, then Jockey are by far the best, I would ride round a 4* give the right training and horse, but no way would I go near the Grand National.
Dressage would require the most discipline and mental strength, maybe not guts, but they still have to be brave, I would feel sick at the prospect of performing a Grand Prix test, no matter how much preperation I had.

I still don't think that a discipline can dictate how good a rider you are.
Nor that being afraid of something makes you a bad rider. Makes you pretty sensible IMO!!!
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Sure, I dont disagree with you there - but I still think a lot of eventing is done on a wing and a prayer type basis. The 'good, safe' rounds tend to be the ones that are heaped with time faults, eg. Toddy's round a minute ago. You cannot get away with just sitting back and praying in show jumping, that much is certain!

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Thats where the skill is, knowing when to sit in a hold tight and knowing when to give a bit more input. Eventers have to leave it a bit more up to the horse than SJers, the nature of the sport asks that of the horses.
Toddy's round isn't really a good indicator of time faults, the time at bejing is impossible, but I think a "Good" eventer can be safe AND fast.

I'm starting to confuse myself
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Does there have to be a 'who is most talented' contest at all though??

To me that is like judging who is more talented out of a 100metre runner and a triathlon competitor........
 
mmm interesting.

I think eventers are braver than dressage/SJ'ers but alot of them lack the finesse of individual discipline riders in my opinion.
 
I agree with your friend, in my own opinion eventers are the best riders, purely because I admire them and their horses, not because I think any other top rider be it show jumping, in the show ring, dressage or endurance etc etc are any less qualified, talented, or dedicated or don't work has hard, its just my own opinion which is neither wrong or right.

I personally just appreciate the qualities of event riders a little more, perhaps because its something I enjoy watching...or would love to do one day.... surely that does not make me ignorant?
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course you're not ignorant!
i think it was the way my friend said it rather than what she said.
I love watching eventing and hope to compete next year, but i have a friend who does pure dressage and she is much better than me
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!
 
Hee heee oh well you'll just have to swop yourself for your friend when you do the dressage phases and hope nobody notices
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otherwise get your friend to train your horse up ....these dressage diva's do have their uses
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