Ignore top vets advice and take shoes off?

Couple of words of warning here... and playing devils advocaat for a while (spelt wrong on purpose....).

Horse 1. we had a horse diagnosed with coffin joint changes and caudal heel pain. Rossdales spent the whole £5k on therapeutic shoes before telling me to shoot him. He was crippled throughout the year of treatment. We were told NOT to go barefoot as he has micro thin soles and would not survive. This was whilst they had insurnce money to spend though. Him surviving was not an issue when the money was gone. I moved to Cytek (not everyones cup of tea) and he was sound after one shoeing. Yes he was forvere 10 to 2 in front end and had spavins behind but the shoe protected the sole and he is still with me some 9 years on. He still jumps with hubby at home and can bomb up the fields like a mad man.

If I wasnt insured would they have given me the advice not to go barefoot ? No. I suspect not.

Horse 2. Elderly mare who had has a suspensory branch rupture, recovered, a 2 superficial tendon tears that also recovered well. She was 17 when her first tear occured. She had excellent feet. Good heels. No lameness ever. We wanted to retire her. The vet came out and said yes, shoes off, away she goes. We used a very respected trimmer who knew his stuff and kept other horses barefoot in the area with no issues. Despite growing hoof in a completely new shape and angle with soles like rhinobums, she was never happy without shoes. She redid a leg in an unrelated incident and was PTS.

Had she been insured would the vet have said yes, whip them off and chuck her out ? No, I suspect not.

Horse 3. Idiot TB who has poor feet and rips off shoes like billy-oh. Due to years of poor shoeing we inherited a horse with collapsed heels. He fractured a pedal bone and went to Newmarket Equine Hospital who decided that the way forward to to raise the heels with wedges. They promptly collapsed. We got to about £3k of insurance after bone scans and 2 sets of wedge heels by their own farrier and I asked my own vet for a candid opinion. He came out, took one look and said he would NEVER have been wedge heels on this horse. He said we would never get him truly sound. We found a workable solution with out own farrier but are now trying the Cytek route with him and although hes barefoot behind, he has stopped tripping and stumbling, the slowly growing swelling on his front fetlock has all but gone and his slight knee swelling has gone totally. When we asked the vets at NEH about going barefoot they said it would probabably void further insurance payouts as we would be going against their advice. NFU said this was tosh.


Just a few things to think about.

A specialist can take a snap shot of your horse, tell you where is differs from the majority of horses considered healthy for its age weight and makeup.

They can then offer you a range of treatments.

They are at the end of the day, businesses who rely on trade to pay bills. They also rely on cases to build further knowledge.

YOU know your horse. Dont be afraid to step away from the orthodox.

Not sure Ive helped there TBH but its curious how most advice we were given was based around what "should" be the "normal" and would money we had. ;)
 
Bless you mrussell hope you're feeling better... :)
I know, I don't know where I'm at the moment, I just don't have enough info yet about what the problem really is.
During this summer, with all the sensitivity/footiness issues I decided she needed a break from her shoes at the end of the season and I have to accept its possible that make now not be the best way forward. But I'm not at that point yet....
I'm not sure if she will be insured, certainly she wouldn't have been if it had been her suspensory. But insurance companies can get a bit funny about related structures, will call the NFU and see what they say....
I won't rush into a decision, will find out as much info as I can from lots of different sources and then make a decision.
 
I ended up going against vets advice with one of mine, we struggled for 4 months trying to get a diagnosis. He was eventually diagnosed with Impar ligament damage & adhesions to the DDFT, the vets at leahurst could offer nothing other than remedial shoes (bar shoes with frog support) & a steroid injection.
The prognosis was poor extremely poor but I needed that diagnosis.

Within 6 weeks of gaining the diagnosis I pulled his shoes, it wasn't an immediate cure all but it was noted the horse was much happier & seemed more comfortable.

I continued with box rest as I knew that he did need the rest he also needed controlled walk. With lots of time, limited trimming & lots of straight line walking & penned T/o he became sound. I now have a great trimmer who sees him every 5 weeks & makes sure he's balanced.

He has just won at Medium & is training well at PSG it's a dream come true.

The vets didn't support my decision leahurst or my own however out of the two Leahurst accepted it, but only after I had at least tried the remedial shoes (which I did for 6 weeks) it was tough but I did so much research in those 4 months I was waiting for the vets to diagnose. That by the time he was I felt fairly confident in the approach I wanted to take.

Yes it cost a fortune to diagnose, but I really did need the diagnosis. I don't think I could of tailored my rehab or been successful without it.
 
Congrats dressagecrazy how wonderful to get him back sound and working so well.... :)
Yes it's true a firm diagnosis is needed otherwise they're just guessing really... His message seemed to imply the imbalance was only slight, so is that the whole story....? Hmmm
 
Dressage crazy, that's v.encouraging! Did you go with the steroid injections too? I understand that steroids can actually cause more problems than notwith ligament damage?
 
I wonder whether things can look like just a slight imbalance on the outside/x-rays when in fact there is quite a lot more going on inside the foot that we just don't know about. F's feet certainly looked 10x better after the improved shoeing but it didn't really improve his soundness, also having seen how he was landing (laterally, badly on both fores worse on the lame fore) I find it hard to believe that he didn't actually have some degree of collateral ligament damage going on (even if it was chronic more than acute). We didn't have full diagnostics though because essentially he is an ageing leisure pony and shoes were taken off essentially because if he was retiring (given that shoeing/steroid +HA injections weren't properly working) they'd be coming off anyway. I think if I were you I would just be keeping an open mind but ensuring I discussed all the possibilities I was interested in with the vets. (Mine wasn't against taking shoes off but he wasn't that keen either!)
 
Congrats dressagecrazy how wonderful to get him back sound and working so well.... :)
Yes it's true a firm diagnosis is needed otherwise they're just guessing really... His message seemed to imply the imbalance was only slight, so is that the whole story....? Hmmm

Hopefully it is just an imbalance, once you know fully what your dealing with you will feel a bit better.

Dressage crazy, that's v.encouraging! Did you go with the steroid injections too? I understand that steroids can actually cause more problems than notwith ligament damage?

Yes I did they injected into the Navicular Bursa, I actually can't say it made any differance. I wasnt made aware of it causing any problems at the time so i went along with it. More so because it made me feel i was doing something than anything else.
However Cartrophen a few weeks after he went BF did seem to help not enough to get him sound but He certainly seemed better. I did another course of Cartrophen a year after also he was sound at this point but again it seemed to help he felt better. I would always go for Cartrophen first now instead of steroid.

It took 2 years in total to get him to a place to start competing it wasnt plain sailing it was hard work & very upsetting when youd think he was making progress as had been sound for 3 weeks & then he would go lame again. However im sure the lameness after was more due to us breaking the adhesions through the in hand walk work as each time the lameness wouldnt be as severe.

he has now been fully sound for 17 months. I'm still a total freak over him though don't think you would be human if you weren't.
 
Luckily my mare has no probs with ddft and is pretty much sound now...so I just to maintain that and get back to being 100% , and its just whether shoes or shoeless will do that...

TT, your mare sounds very similar to madam...right down to the imbalances...
 
TT- you might not be ignoring him at all. I expect he'll be assuming you want the problem fixed asap (most owners do and so vets work on that assumption). If you explain that you're quite happy to turn away for a decent length of time you may find he agrees. I think vets also get into the habit of doing ''something,anything'' because a lot of owners aren't happy until some kind of treatment is begun. If you tell them you understand time can also be a healer you might get a different conclusion from them...

Or possibly not. But well worth making it clear you aren't in a rush and don't need treatment to make you as an owner feel better.
 
JT that sounds familiar.. I was told something along the lines of 'well you can but you do know that is going to take quite a long time don't you.. '
 
JT that sounds familiar.. I was told something along the lines of 'well you can but you do know that is going to take quite a long time don't you.. '

I genuinely feel quite sorry for vets these days as the pressure to do something from most owners is pretty immense. Most people simply won't consider turning away for a year but will merrily spend thousands on shockwave (for which the evidence of efficacy is sketchy at best) and IRAP (actually haven't checked out the studies for this tbf) and even more bizarrely stem cells which I would personally be incredibly wary of at this point in time (sceptic, moi?)

I know for certain conditions rest is very unlikely to improve the situation but there are many, many soft tissue injuries where effectively that is what the vet is prescribing but it has be be parcelled with some 'treatment' to lend it weight or something.

Anyway, I'm going off topic, it's just something I've noticed..
 
My mare was diagnosed with damage to the soft tissue in her front feet earlier this year :( she had nothing sinister on her xrays but sadly I couldnt afford to pay the required amount for an MRI to confirm exactly what and tbh I knew I would take her shoes off to treat it anyway. She had horrible front feet, no heels, flat soles, terrible angle and an attept at a 'remedial' shoeing job with natural balance shoes had made her worse, not better. In hindsight she had always had 'sensitive' feet and actually that was probably a sign a long while back that things weren't right, I do wish I had done something then. I pulled her shoes, did many an hour walking her on difference surfaces to stimulate the frog and get everything working properly again. 8 weeks and 2 trims later she was sound and I was back on board, albeit just in walk due to her pregnancy and lack of fitness. Her soft, thin soles are now brick hard, her frogs are twice the size they were and her foot angle is greatly improved. I was already planing to take a foal from her anyway so we covered her, continued with her walking and then put her out in the field. She looks super now, has totally different looking feet and has remained sound in the field. I'm sure the time turned away will help her but I firmly believe that the time spent with her shoes off actually working her was the best thing I could have done. I have no concerns about bringing her back into work next year, and no plans to shoe her.

My vets were supportive and the one I use in particular believes that the only way to truly fix front feet issues is to remove shoes.

My other 2 are also shoeless and in work. One had his pulled in Jan as he had tendon issues, he too had flat feet with thin soles. I took shoes off, sorted his diet and kept him in work, other than a month off to chill out from racing. He has done sj, xc, dressage (on surfaces and grass), hacks out over all terrain and I'm planning to hunt him over winter. He's been a real eye opener for me and had I not been through what I did with him then I wouldn't have known about it to help my mare out. The other is my OH's boy, in 12 weeks without shoes he has developed much thicker, harder soles and his foot angle is changing naturally with the work on as many different surfaces and terrains as we can find. I use a good local trimmer to do mine as my farrier does like to take a bit too much off...!

Anyway, my point is that pulling shoes and turning away is always a good option IMO, but equally removing shoes and keeping the horse in work/moving can be even more beneficial if you are willing/able to do it. I was astonished to see the difference in my horses - all TB's with 'typical' TB feet btw - but having spent a lot of time reading up on this it seems that there are a hell of a lot of successful 'barefoot rehabs' of horses with considerable feet issues who do go onto return back to full work, or even come back better than they were with or without shoes. It's hard work and the stuff you will read about the diet really, really does matter but it seems to work and I've certainly seen massive improvements in my 3. This is just my opinion though, I'm sure someone will have a completely different view so listen to them too.

At the end of the day it's your horse and you can only do what you feel is best. Vets can be blinkered to certain situations so do some research, speak to lots of people and then make your decision. Good luck!
 
That's really interestingly. I've been telling myself that degenerative changes would not have caused such sudden acute lameness, but perhaps I'm wrong then.....

It can do - horses are amazing at 'carrying over' lameness; it's something they had to develop in the wild - if you were in pain and showed it you'd be the first to get eaten or beaten up! So you compensate, but there becomes a point when they can't take it any more, and this is when the lameness shows, although decreased performance is common beforehand.

With my old guy, he had arthritis and developed spavins. He started knocking the odd SJ without real reason to do so (and he was a VERY careful pony!) but it wasn't for another month or so that he actually went lame, and even then it was very sudden.

Personally, I'd have a good chat with the vet - suggest the barefoot approach, ask him what he thinks on it, and whether it would cause/aggravate any issues. Also, I'd be pretty peeved off if I was investigating a lameness, then the owner whipped it's shoes off without asking for my opinion first - not good for relations if you do need to go back to your vet! Sometimes going barefoot can work really well, but I don't think (as with ANY kind of treatment/care) that it is necessarily the best option for everything.

Good luck, whatever you decide :)
 
Just to add, I think a lot of owners think 'turning away' means a few months at best, not the year or so it might really take a horse to set itself right again (if it's possible - not everything is fixable!). Vets assume people want a ridable horse asap so it's important to be clear about what you want and what you're willing to do.

Modern medicine has a lot to offer and it's important not to dismiss it simply because it's not a magic cure all. That said, I see more cases that would simply have been turned away (or had their work reduced) in the past but now become long, drawn out, fraught affairs with unsatisfactory out comes. Quite often it takes a year to get the horse okay, even with the time, money and effort, and you have to wonder if it would not have worked out similarly either way.

I do think the quality of turning away brings something to the equation, too, though. A horse standing in a small, flat field, still eating processed food and getting minimal exercise, is having a very different experience from one ranging over varied terrain with other horses and limited resources to keep it occupied.
 
Thanks everyone.
I now know what cartrophen is, so that's a step forward and an option for her fetlock I think.:)
Tarrsteps, I must admit I was thinking of the winter to get her right and then start hopefully eventing in the spring..... Having only one horse to ride, a years a bit grim..... Plus she'll be 13 next year and I'll be 47 so times ticking on for both of us..... ;)
I'll ring RVC shortly, see if I can at least briefly see him face to face. What I need to know, is if it's not just an imbalance, am I potetially delaying/hindering a full recovery by going down this route at this stage. If I am then I think I need to find out exactly what's wrong, before we decide on the best course or action.
The hunt came past this morning, and seeing her trot across the field, she def looked like she was feeling her front feet...
 
I'm guessing if you want her eventing in the spring she'll be back in work in Jan for fittening. At most that will give her 10 - 12 weeks turned away. Your soil is quite heavy clay and not free draining, will she still be coming in at night otherwise her feet will prob be very soft and wet.

In that period of time she will hardly have chance to grow out the nail holes, unless you plan on fittening her whilst still barefoot. When you first take the shoes off her feet will crumble and break up to where the nail holes were (unless she has very good hard feet). At this point you will struggle to get shoes back on if you change your mind as there won't be anything to nail to. I have given quite a few of mine a break from shoes for various reasons and also had to have some of them reshod, again for differing reasons.

If she loses a shoe and has to wait a few days for the farrier how does she cope? Does she barely notice or is she sore?

The first month or two are always the hardest. Good luck.
 
I think there may be some clues from the information you've provided. However, not being a vet, I think it's best to take some of the info/points of view from posters and pose these to the professor.

However, I had a mare [which I got rid of as I could see trouble ahead, ahemm.....] of a similar ilk.

As the vet has suggested 're-balancing' it does tell me that your farrier may not be balancing to promote optimum hoof-pastern axis for your horse. So, if the horse has a broken back/forward lineament (angle), he could be inadvertently causing the problem, or at least, not helping poor existing balance. If he is shoeing with slightly too much length he may not be keeping the pedal bone in optimum position and may press slightly on the sole. If there is a thin sole, the area will be painful.

Although there may be no radiographic changes (x ray) you may see some inflammatory changes around the hoof wall or perhaps underneath (?) which may show on a thermographer. Although the results have to be interpreted very carefully, they may provide a few more clues as to what's happening within the foot. I know that vets are sceptical about heat scanners - but if you took clear evidence of heat/cold areas, she may be able to work with this. It may also give an indication of heat due to concussion.

Your horse sounds like he has thin soles (which I'm sure you know). He may have a genetic predisposition or he may not have run on a variety of terrain when younger, who knows. However, if he's responding to EquipaK is sounds like this is the case.

You could take his shoes off [which does sound like a good option to allow frog to come back into contact with ground] but if he does have thin soles it is not an overnight cure. There are many benefits of going barefoot for a while, so that he walks on a variety of terrain in order to calcify the sole - but there may be a variety of issues going on with the bio-mechanics and structure of the foot. (He may also have a convex rather than concave shape, prolapsed heel, etc.] In my experience it takes years to rectify. But there's another thought - does your farrier pare away too much sole? Can you post a picture of the front feet for poster to critique?

I do think you may need to think about his lameness as a long term thing, rather than quick fix as it may have been creeping up on him over time [which is what it sounds like] rather than a sudden acute condition.
 
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I think there may be some clues from the information you've provided. However, not being a vet, I think it's best to take some of the info/points of view from posters and pose these to the professor.

However, I had a mare [which I got rid of as I could see trouble ahead, ahemm.....] of a similar ilk.

As the vet has suggested 're-balancing' it does tell me that your farrier may not be balancing to promote optimum hoof-pastern axis for your horse. So, if the horse has a broken back/forward lineament (angle), he could be inadvertently causing the problem, or at least, not helping poor existing balance. If he is shoeing with slightly too much length he may not be keeping the pedal bone in optimum position and may press slightly on the sole. If there is a thin sole, the area will be painful.

Although there may be no radiographic changes (x ray) you may see some inflammatory changes around the hoof wall or perhaps underneath (?) which may show on a thermographer. Although the results have to be interpreted very carefully, they may provide a few more clues as to what's happening within the foot. I know that vets are sceptical about heat scanners - but if you took clear evidence of heat/cold areas, she may be able to work with this. It may also give an indication of heat due to concussion.

Your horse does sound like he has thin soles (which I'm sure you know). He may have a genetic predisposition or he may not have run on a variety of terrain when younger, who knows. However, if he's responding to EquipaK is sounds like this is the case.

You could take his shoes off [which does sound like a good option to allow frog to come back into contact with ground] but if he does have thin soles it is not an overnight cure. There are many benefits of going barefoot for a while, so that he walks on a variety of terrain in order to calcify the sole - but there may be a variety of issues going on with the bio-mechanics and structure of the foot. (He may also have a convex rather than concave shape, prolapsed heel, etc.] In my experience it takes years to rectify. But there's another thought - does your farrier pare away too much sole? Can you post a picture of the front feet for poster to critique?

I do think you may need to think about his lameness as a long term thing, rather than quick fix as it may have been creeping up on him over time [which is what it sounds like] rather than a sudden acute condition.
 
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Right, I've got an appointment to see Prof Smith this afternoon at 4pm, so will go through everything with him.
When he saw her last year for a check up re the suspensory, he thought something was going on with one of her feet then, but it was so slight, he suggested we concertrated on the bigger issue of her suspensory.
Clearly, as he said, things are now a lot worse and we need to get to the bottom of it, rather then just patching things up and have it grumbling on.
I spoke to my farrier this morning, he thinks that what they are possibly seeing is a lateral imbalance, that she has always had, which he corrects every 5 weeks when he shoes her, and they're seeing 4 1/2 weeks of regrowth.... He also said he's very happy to go down there this week and discuss with them how he's been shoeing her and hear what they suggest to improve things. He also said in an ideal world we would take her shoes off, but he would be concerned how that would work, with eventing her etc,
So I'm pretty pleased how things have gone this morning, I've managed to arrange to see Prof Smith today and my farrier seems to be up for putting some effort into trying to improve things as well..... :D
I'll keep you posted...
KatB please let me know how things go with your mare, as we do seem to be in similar places at the moment..... :p
 
Just a couple of thing from me.

If you do pull her shoes, it may be better to keep her in work rather than turn away. The more stimulation over varied surfaces you can provide the hoof the better. By keeping her in work she should also be better able to balance her feet herself, hopefully ending up with the foot shape that suits her conformation.

As has already been mentioned diet is very important. Please look at her diet and change as necessary when the shoes come off.

Most importantly, Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
Firstly, well done you for getting your farrier on board. They can be.....ahem......slightly less open to change and glad that you're seeing professor soon.

I agree that it would be difficult to event with no shoes (I'm sure the barefoot troop would say otherwise) but I think you may need to re-think your horse's job whilst you get to the bottom of this. My guess is that she'd be hopping lame without shoes at the moment.

You can check your farrier's attempt at correcting your mare's lateral (medio-lateral) imbalance. 1. Lift up her leg - MUST be in line with her elbow. 2. Then look down at the foot from above. 3. Then, take a T bar (this can be whatever you have lying around.) The 'T' should run along the bottom line of the foot (where the shoe is) and the 'Bar' should be right bang in the middle of the foot/leg. If not, your farrier is not correcting lateral balance.

Improper balance of the foot can cause untold damage, especially when the horse then sustains a fare old amount of ware and tear from eventing. In a hack horse the problem may not have reared its head and the foot may have coped with these imbalances.

I would ask the vet about lateral and front to back balance. I would also arm yourself with a copy of 'No foot, No horse' (Williams) - it will pretty much tell you all you need to know about foot balance, thin soles, etc.

Sorry to say, but I sold my mare on. She worked well with Equipak but I could see trouble ahead and I felt I couldn't guarantee her soundness for the job I wanted. You have managed however, to event you horse to novice so well done. I would have a chat with vet about all of the above.

Good luck and my heart goes out to you. My old event mare has came out the stable this morning pretty much unable to walk with what looks like a traumatic injury to the hock - a few more hours without improvement and the vet will have to come. It breaks my heart to see her like that - as I'm sure you feel the same.
 
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You can check your farrier's attempt at correcting your mare's lateral (medio-lateral) imbalance. 1. Lift up her leg - MUST be in line with her elbow. 2. Then look down at the foot from above. 3. Then, take a T bar (this can be whatever you have lying around.) The 'T' should run along the bottom line of the foot (where the shoe is) and the 'Bar' should be right bang in the middle of the foot/leg. If not, your farrier is not correcting lateral balance.

Improper balance of the foot can cause untold damage, especially when the horse then sustains a fare old amount of ware and tear from eventing. In a hack horse the problem may not have reared its head and the foot may have coped with these imbalances.

I would ask the vet about lateral and front to back balance. I would also arm yourself with a copy of 'No foot, No horse' (Williams) - it will pretty much tell you all you need to know about foot balance, thin soles, etc.

I know I'll not word this properly but while the above is drilled into us to be correct sometimes horses have other ideas of what balanced (for them) is. I acknowledge that the horse hasn't balanced themselves in this case; the farrier has. Agree with the recommendation of No Foot No Horse and the above method of checking the balance is clearly illustrated. The (farrier) author of this book also calls shoes "necessary evils" and something from which the feet must be rested - pretty sure he recommends at least 12wks a year.

Spookypony on here is a good example; her horse has a flare which most (all?) farriers would trim off and possible remedially shoe but the horse obviously needs it and that's why he grows it (and is sound). SP hope you don't mind me using your pony as an example.

Look on the Rockley Farm blog as there are lots of pictures of "balanced" hooves and videos of the horses moving illustrating clearly how they are landing.

If vets are advising shoes and you don't follow their advice then you may find your insurance claim rejected. If it's included/covered in your policy I'd MRI and fact find as much as possible but if you decide to go down the barefoot route I'd make sure my claim was paid before I pulled the shoes.

You've had lots of good advice on this thread. Good luck whatever you decide.
 
Good trimming/shoeing should always take into account individual imbalances and trim/shoe accordingly - that is the art of farriery.

Front to back/side to side balance is optimal for all horses.

Flares are something quite different and all farriers should assess horses for their individual break-over pattern and pretty much leave this alone.

Good farriery cannot make up for incorrect confirmation - but hopefully these horses are not chosen to compete - as they can't change nature.

However, they can aid in encouraging more even weight distribution to minimise wear and tear where the deviation from optimal occurs, whether that deviation is found in the leg, in the hoof capsule or whatever.

Good point re insurance - I would also be tempted to follow vet's advice and as stated before, I think your mare would be hopping lame if you took her shoes of anyway.

Best of luck.
 
TPO makes some good points re insurance, MRI etc. Best to know exactly what you're giving up.

The problem is, in situations like this there is no "right" answer and no two situations are exactly the same. Re how the foot "should" look, I would agree with the above that sometimes horses have been trimmed/shod for so long it's impossible to tell what they would like under natural forces, even with x-rays. It's important to remember the horses is a dynamic organism and all the component parts balance out. As the foot is so malleable it is often the point at which the body "self corrects", perhaps making up for some other problem affecting gait or stance. Of course this can be negative - a horse with pain elsewhere will change gait, the gait change will affect the foot but not necessarily make the horse sound, and that's not a good thing in the long run - but you have to wonder if it can't also be a positive. I knew a horse with a knee injury who grew a very odd foot afterwards but stayed perfectly sound on it. When he moved up in competition he was shod and an effort was made to make him look more traditional, two season later he was crocked. Was it merely the increased work? Or would he have stood up better if allowed to go his own way? Impossible to say but possibly a question worth asking.

I have seen plenty of horses grow feet that don't look "by the book" but seem to work for them. This does not mean it's always the right choice - other factors also have to be taken into account, as previously discussed. And I've seen horses "correctively shod" for years, usually along with other management, stay functionally sound. I also have (more recently, oddly, for reasons I'm not clear on) seen people spend months and months getting all the angles right with x-rays and MRIs, working with this pad and that shoeing technique and still not have a functionally sound horse at the end of it.

I do think one conversation to have is expectations. I do know a couple of people who have told their vet they'd be happy with a relatively low level return to usefulness then, when that's achieved, they've stepped up the demands and the horse has broken again. I know sometimes you have to take the risk if it's all looking good but rather like the time you're willing to invest, the people advising you can only do so if they have all the information and you follow their advice.
 
I''ve not read all the posts but why not have an MRI done? That will give you a far better picture. (There is a reason you haven't I assume i've just not read it sorry as my phone is being slow!)
I've have a horse on livery which suddenly had sore feet (to cut a long story short as don't want to explain the details on a public forum as its not my horse pm if you want the full story) they MRI'd- so we know exactly what the problem is, we have treated the problem the horse is 100% sound fit and competing at a high level and with good management the owner won't have a problem for many years it will just be a little high maintenence! We sorted this in about 3 weeks and the horse was only sore for 1 day and only had those 3 weeks out of work. MRI's are very very worth it! Plus a VERY good open minded performance vet who reads up on all the latest journals and has mended many olympic horses helps! ;)
 
Well I went to see Prof Smith and I feel very much happier about things.
The problem with her hooves are that the angle of her pedal bone is incorrect, its flat against the ground instead of slightly pointed down towards it.
So he's suggested correcting the angle, thankfully because she's been wearing Equipak, she has very thick soles, so there is plenty to work with and reshape.
He's suggesting deep seated (think I got that right!) wide webbed shoes with a bull nose and plenty of length at the back.
I talked to him about doing this barefoot, he was fine about it, but said that it would take longer to see if we were on the right track and the eventual outcome won't be any better. This way we would very quickly see if we were on the right track and if things didn't resolve we would then go on to do more nerve blocks and an MRI.
Regarding the fetlock joint, there is no sign of any arthritic changes, he thinks it is just a sprain and as such will benefit from a steroid injection to the joint. He said theres no reason not to and it will probably benefit her feet.
So I think I feel more positive about things, despite the fact I've just seen a thread about someone in a similar situation having graduated shoes fitted and several days later the horse is crippled.... :eek:
 
Thanks Thistle, thats kind of what I'm thinking. I would have loved to take her shoes off for a few months, but this way we'll know pretty quickly, with still hopefully enough time to do other things before the event season gets underway next year.
 
I would think about changing her diet to assist her feet to repair themselves ( assuming that the problems are foot related)
I'm about the least 'natural fluffy bunny' person you could meet but through diet changes and supplementation I've managed to turn around the feet on a horse the farrier was struggling to nail shoes on to as they were falling apart. His soles were so thin you could flex them under thumb pressure. He's now shoeless behind and sounder than he was shod over stones. On grass and a surface he's moving amazingly well.
I have kept his front shoes on, because of the changes to his diet the quality of his hoof has improved 10fold even while remaining in shoes. So much so the farrier keeps on mentioning it every time he sees him. I think he thought I was mad at first ;)

Read Nics blog at Rockely farm, that's what inspired me.

Good Luck!
What changes did you make to the diet and what supplements are you feeding ? We have a 4yo who kept losing shoes as feet are breaking up and now in glue-ons in front until he grows enough foot to taks a nail...he is on hoofmaker but interested in what worked for you.
 
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