Ill-mannered Judges

Ellen Durow

Ellen Durow

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We have been organising a summer show for over a quarter of a century. It is well-supported in the county and we raise serious amounts of money for equine charities. Last year, immediately after the show I booked the judges for this year and got confirmation from all of them. 10 days ago I had a bit of spare time so decided to email them and ask if they were bringing their own stewards and if they had any dietary requirements for lunch.

TWO of them then informed my that they weren't coming. One of them had clearly had a better offer and the other informed me that she wasn't coming as she had been living abroad since November. Neither had bothered to let me know despite both of them knowing they were going to let me down since before Christmas - they have email and postal addresses for me and the yard and they have my home phone number and my mobile and my mother's phone number! And where the hell did they think we would find replacements at this late stage?

I wouldn't mind if we were expecting them to do it for love but we pay these people fees and travelling expenses, provide them with a good sit-down luncheon AND we find them a bed if they are travelling from a distance!

But wait for it....this isn't the end of the story.

I've spent the last week or more trying to find replacements. I have left 30 emails and phone messages and have received only 4 replies. 3 were sorry they were booked up but passed us on to their colleagues who were free and one lady accepted despite having decided she would need a day off before doing a 3 day county show a few days later. The remaining 26 have just ignored my messages.

Am I being over-sensitive when I say that this is not just bad manners but arrogance? I explained in the messages that we use a blind ballot to choose our judges so they were in no means second best. Do they really expect to be asked again and doesn't it occur to them that Judges secretaries from various shows actually tralk to each other? They obviously don't realise that if it gets round the circuit that they are unreliable they won't be asked. Our show committee Chair is absolutely furious and threatening to write to their organisations complaining about them. Meanwhile I am biting the chair legs and panicking in case anyone else backs out.
 
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Yes I think you are over sensitive.

I'm guessing your show is at level? If it is booking judges a year in advance is a bit silly, a lot of people forget these things!

If moving abroad it may have slipped the judge's mind to tell you they could no longer judge.

This may stereotype but quite a few judges may be of the older generation so may not reply to emails immediately. Likewise people may be too busy to check emails. If it were me I would call directly rather than email.
 
Oh no you poor thing :( you sound really stressed and under a lot of pressure to source good judges for a event you must care about.

I do think booking people a year out, while it was a must have seemed like a good idea at the time just won't work as life just gets in the way. In reality i'd have taken those acceptance with a pinch of salt and chased them up a while ago. Anyway sorry thats not helpful!

Do you have anyone else who can help you find more judges? Or maybe you could post on facebook groups or ask in local tack shops? Or where abouts is your show, could you ask on here?

Good luck im sure you'll find enough judges :)
 
Actually booking judges a year in advance is the norm in the major show world. Their behaviour seems to be appalling but it does seem unlucky to say the least to have more than one dropping out and for them not to have notified you.

If you are picking judges off national panels you will undoubtedly have problems now as most shows will have booked their judges and people will be pretty booked up.

Do you write inviting them and when they reply do you confirm it in writing? If so I would seriously consider reporting them to their respective panel.
 
Having been though the stress of relocating abroad I am not surprised the judge who moved overseas overlooked letting you know.
 
caterpillar said:
Yes I think you are over sensitive.

I'm guessing your show is at level? If it is booking judges a year in advance is a bit silly, a lot of people forget these things!

If moving abroad it may have slipped the judge's mind to tell you they could no longer judge.

This may stereotype but quite a few judges may be of the older generation so may not reply to emails immediately. Likewise people may be too busy to check emails. If it were me I would call directly rather than email.
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Oh, come ON! If judges can't keep a diary they shouldn't be judges. "Forgetting" is not good enough. I'm not talking about someone who has a horse, has won a few gongs at Pony Club shows and thinks she knows it all so would like to do a bit of judging and, god knows, there are enough of them. I'm talking about qualified, professional judges on the panel of their organising bodies.

It costs us a frightening fortune to get the show on the road every year. We run events all year round to raise money for organisational expenses - advertising, hiring equipment such as show jumps, marquees, etc., paying judges, paying for membership of qualifying bodies, paying for professional first aid and ambulance services, rosettes and sashes, replacing trophies that have not been returned, printing schedules, a donation to the Army Cadets for helping set out rings, marshalling the parking ground and being runners, and all sorts of incidental expenses - so we can donate all the show's takings to the charity for the year. And we are not talking about a couple of quid here - we raise thousands of pounds a year for equine charities.

We aren't running some penny-ante "lets put on a show here in the barn" set up. Some people travel 50 or 60 miles to compete at our show and it has to be well organised or we'd have no takers. If we want good professional judges we HAVE to book them early as they get booked up. Many take bookings two years in advance.

I doubt you've been involved in organising a show of this sort or you wouldn't make such a silly comment.
 
sport horse said:
Actually booking judges a year in advance is the norm in the major show world. Their behaviour seems to be appalling but it does seem unlucky to say the least to have more than one dropping out and for them not to have notified you.

If you are picking judges off national panels you will undoubtedly have problems now as most shows will have booked their judges and people will be pretty booked up.

Do you write inviting them and when they reply do you confirm it in writing? If so I would seriously consider reporting them to their respective panel.
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Oh yes. Headed note paper and if verbal requests are involved it's followed up by a written invitation. I get acceptances in writing and confirm in writing and I would normally send them all a reminder letter about 6 weeks before the event. It was just chance that I decided to get the issue of food and stewards out of the way early otherwise we could have been in an even worse mess with an iminent show and two rings with no judges. We have a good reputation buy it's very easy to lose it.
 
Is your user name your real name? I fear you may have just shot yourself in the foot. No judge is going to want to take up your offer after your post.

Yes it is frustrating but if you are finding it too much of a chore dealing with people who are incredibly busy and maybe not too good at keeping their diary up to date then maybe it is time to stand down. Or just take a deep breath and try politely emailing them again.
 
Goldenstar said:
Having been though the stress of relocating abroad I am not surprised the judge who moved overseas overlooked letting you know.
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Well, possibly, but her mother is actually judging one of our other rings at the same show....

We've since heard that she has always been a bit flakey. Wouldn't have booked her in the first place if I'd known THAT!

By contrast, one of my judges was thrilled to be asked, saying that she had won her first Supreme Championship at our show 20 years ago.
 
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Hedgewitch13 said:
Is your user name your real name? I fear you may have just shot yourself in the foot. No judge is going to want to take up your offer after your post.

Yes it is frustrating but if you are finding it too much of a chore dealing with people who are incredibly busy and maybe not too good at keeping their diary up to date then maybe it is time to stand down. Or just take a deep breath and try politely emailing them again.
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And I'm not "incredibly busy"?

As we won't be asking the judges concerned in future your comment is immaterial. Yes, of course I've used my real name and I actually do hope the people I'm complaining about see my posts.
 
Wow... snipey indeed. I wasn't suggesting you weren't busy at all, you took that totally the wrong way! Good luck in finding anyone wanting to judge at your show now.

No need to reply as I've put you on user ignore.
 
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Ellen Durow said:
We have been organising a summer show for over a quarter of a century. It is well-supported in the county and we raise serious amounts of money for equine charities. Last year, immediately after the show I booked the judges for this year and got confirmation from all of them. 10 days ago I had a bit of spare time so decided to email them and ask if they were bringing their own stewards and if they had any dietary requirements for lunch.

TWO of them then informed my that they weren't coming. One of them had clearly had a better offer and the other informed me that she wasn't coming as she had been living abroad since November. Neither had bothered to let me know despite both of them knowing they were going to let me down since before Christmas - they have email and postal addresses for me and the yard and they have my home phone number and my mobile and my mother's phone number! And where the hell did they think we would find replacements at this late stage?

I wouldn't mind if we were expecting them to do it for love but we pay these people fees and travelling expenses, provide them with a good sit-down luncheon AND we find them a bed if they are travelling from a distance!

But wait for it....this isn't the end of the story.

I've spent the last week or more trying to find replacements. I have left 30 emails and phone messages and have received only 4 replies. 3 were sorry they were booked up but passed us on to their colleagues who were free and one lady accepted despite having decided she would need a day off before doing a 3 day county show a few days later. The remaining 26 have just ignored my messages.

Am I being over-sensitive when I say that this is not just bad manners but arrogance? I explained in the messages that we use a blind ballot to choose our judges so they were in no means second best. Do they really expect to be asked again and doesn't it occur to them that Judges secretaries from various shows actually tralk to each other? They obviously don't realise that if it gets round the circuit that they are unreliable they won't be asked. Our show committee Chair is absolutely furious and threatening to write to their organisations complaining about them. Meanwhile I am biting the chair legs and panicking in case anyone else backs out.
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I have every sympathy, regardless of who they are (or think they are;)) it's discourteous of them not to have informed you and secondly, those that haven't replied to your emails either haven't checked their inbox (what's the point in having one then?) or they are just as ignorant as your original judges.
 
I can understand your frustration OP.

There were contracts in place, so they should have been honoured.

If I was a judge and available I would offer. I know one or two - what flavour of judge are you looking for, level, dates, etc. PM me if you prefer :)
 
I don't know anything about showing/judging what-have-you (except as an interested observer, maybe!), BUT I am amazed that anyone thinks this is acceptable. In any walk of life, if you make a commitment/contract, you honour it. Full stop.

If I made a lunch date, promised to baby-sit, took a job etc I wouldn't just 'forget'! Just good manners!
 
Hedgewitch13 said:
Is your user name your real name? I fear you may have just shot yourself in the foot. No judge is going to want to take up your offer after your post.

Yes it is frustrating but if you are finding it too much of a chore dealing with people who are incredibly busy and maybe not too good at keeping their diary up to date then maybe it is time to stand down. Or just take a deep breath and try politely emailing them again.
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Hedgewitch you are totally out of order. So being a judge permits you to have a total lack of civil courtesy. I personally wouldn't give a stuff what these people thought of me if I was in OP's shoes. She is absolutely right in her comments and also in hoping that these ignorant gits see this post! Responding no to an email would take all of 30 seconds and I for one do not think that is too much to ask.

OP - good luck in finding better mannered judges to help you out.
 
Hedgewitch13 said:
Wow... snipey indeed. I wasn't suggesting you weren't busy at all, you took that totally the wrong way! Good luck in finding anyone wanting to judge at your show now.

No need to reply as I've put you on user ignore.
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Wooooo - handbags armed and ready! One word Hedgewitch - pathetic.
 
Ellen Durow said:
And I'm not "incredibly busy"?

As we won't be asking the judges concerned in future your comment is immaterial. Yes, of course I've used my real name and I actually do hope the people I'm complaining about see my posts.
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I wouldn't care if they saw if I was you either, and I don't think that you were the snipey one!

Hope that you find judges in time.
 
As my mother is in charge of booking talks for her historical society (a very small village club) I know how difficult these things are! She has currently the next 2 years booked and if she doesn't book them that far in the future, she finds it hard to get people organised and willing to come out on such short notice.

For the record, I wouldn't care if I was a judge and saw this post either! Sounds like you've had a tricky time and if I was in a position to do so, I'd help!
 
Totally understandable! It could be that some of the judges you contacted recently are on holiday and/or have other commitments. However, it is surprising how few responded even putting that in perspective!
 
OP - SOME of us know just where you are coming from! I used to be on the committee of one of my local riding clubs (I was treasurer and secretary) and most people have no idea at all how much work we had to put in all year round and the expense involved in running even a lowly show. We used to book our judges at least 6 months ahead, but still some were no-shows on the day, no explanation, no apology. There is no excuse for forgetting a booking - write it on your wall-planner. It does make you wonder how disorganized other parts of their lives are. I do think some judges are so up themselves they don't give a stuff when they let people down or don't respond to contact. Many are breeders and spend the whole class telling everyone how no-one compares with their animals.
 
Even judges at the highest level are not 'paid' as such. They receive expenses for mileage and hopfully enjoy a good lunch!! Even the most experienced judges (one of our friends has judged at HOYS) often view it as flattering to be asked.

I judge at local level (not on any panels) and I view it as a compliment to be asked and also, having enjoyed showing at both higher and local levels through the years, both personally and taking my kiddies out, I view it as 'giving something back' to the pastime I enjoy so much.
 
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