I'm going to stick my neck out now - Barefoot trimmers

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moneypit1

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Forgive me if I am 'behind the times', but what the hell is it all about? I agree that naturally horses would not wear shoes (it doesn't take a lot of intelligence to agree with that one) BUT, if you do road work 5 days out of 7 surely your horse NEEDS shoes? I could be wrong, in fact I hope I am but somehow i doubt it. Now I have a Friesian x who has the typical 'blue horn' (a very tough hoof) and he wears it down in one afternoon pawing on the yard. I have just read a thread on the IHDF about a much loved horse basically condemned by a barefoot trimmer in Jersey. Do these barefoot trimmers answer to any governing body? Please enlighten me, I await....
 
I don;t know that answer to your question spcifically, but can only speak from my experience.

My boy is barefoot and is trimmed every 3 months by the farrier, well actually he doesnt take muh off only balances. I do road work about 4-5 times a week and school on sand e.t..c and it keeps his feet down hence only needing the farrier every 3 months. If he needed trimming more I would, but the farrier is very happy with his feet and is well respected in the area.

The only time I would shoe him is if he became foot sore or I was jumping big fences on ground that required studs.
 
You see, there is my quandry.....My boy's shoes are worn at the front almost to the point they are razor blades, and he is re-shod every 5 weeks. Perhap's it's just him?
 
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Anyone can set up as a barefoot trimmer, a farrier has 4 years training, the first year of which is all dealing with unshod hooves.

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Your point being?..................
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Would people employ a "vet" who had had a weekend course in diagnostics to tell them what was wrong with their horse? If not then why use unregistered people to mess with their feet?
 
Don't forget that an unshod hoof is growing at a faster rate due to the increased stimulation and blood flow. This will counteract the greater wear.

A barefoot horse doing moderate road work will have better grip than it would in shoes. In fact road work is part of the barefoot conditioning programme.

If you are doing a lot of road work, I suppose it could be argued that roads are not natural, so the natural approach may not be appropriate. However there is still the option of hoof boots which provide excellent traction.
 
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Don't forget that an unshod hoof is growing at a faster rate due to the increased stimulation and blood flow. This will counteract the greater wear.

A barefoot horse doing moderate road work will have better grip than it would in shoes. In fact road work is part of the barefoot conditioning programme.

If you are doing a lot of road work, I suppose it could be argued that roads are not natural, so the natural approach may not be appropriate. However there is still the option of hoof boots which provide excellent traction.

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Where did you get that information? My 3 yo has never been shod and his hooves grow at about the same rate as my shod horse. I can only go by what i have witnessed first hand and that is that there is no difference or if there is it is so minimal that it has not been noticed by myself or my farrier.
 
Barefoot works very well for some horses - but I don't believe it is right for ALL horses. I do think that a lot of horses are shod who don't neccessarily need to be, just because it is the 'done thing'.

My main worry about the proliferation of the 'barefoot trimmers' is that there is no real recourse when things go wrong. At least with a registered farrier you can take your case to the Farriers Registration Council and the case will be carefully evaluated and action will be taken if misconduct can be proved.

Due to a loophole in the law, barefoot trimmers are not legally regulated. There are barefoot trimmer trade associations, but, as the case referred to in the OP shows, they have vested interests and have no motivation to investigate cases of misconduct.
 
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Im assuming your 3yo is not in full work yet? So his feet wont have the increased stimulation yet. I know my rising 4yos feet have grown at a much faster rate since shes been backed and shes only worked once or twice a week.

My barefoot trimmer has a DAEP which is hardly a weekend course! http://www.equinepodiatry.net/diploma_program.html

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No, my 3yo is a 3yo! He does NO work at all! However, it is interesting to know that once he starts work in 6 mths time (or so), his hoof growth will increase? Why is this?
 
Because there is increased stimulation to the foot, which increases the blood flow and causes the hoof to grow. Its a survival thing, in the wild if a horses hoof didnt grow enough it would end up lame, if it grew too much it would end up lame.
 
My mare was rendered lame and almost ruined by a barefoot practitioner. The vets (different practices to double check) said her pedal bone would have started to be affected and rotated with another 6 months. Luckily I realised what was happening in time (she was only three and had been turned away to grow up at a 'natural horsemanship yard'.

MADNESS in my opinion if anyone thinks they can and should trim horses after about, as far as I can tell, a 2 day course.

Strasser trimming was what was carried out on my mare and as far as I could find out no one regulates this.

I really hate the barefoot is best crew who, frankly, can't answer to the x rays I show 'em of my poor horses feet!

Barefoot fine IF horse can cope, the trim is done properly and by a qualified farrier! I moved my horse within 24 hours when I was told that 'yeah, abcesses are common with this trimming and she should be walked off on concrete (hopping lame) to make the abcess burst through!' No other treatment was planned.

um........ Not one of my horses thank you yet this so called natural yard continues to recruit naive liveries who buy in to natural is best. makes me more than angry. My beautiful WB mare was nearly ruined for life.
 
none of my horses are shod. my TB mare, i have been advised by my PROPERLY REGISTERED farrier that at present i would be wasting my money if she has shoes fitted. her feet are perfect.

my two ponies arent shod and never have been. they have the farrier every 8 to 12 weeks. how then can their feet be growing faster than my old horse i used to own who used to outgrow her shoes after 6 weeks?

i dont like the way the barefoot trimmers trim feet. i also dont like the fact that i dont have any recourse if something goes wrong.

you wouldnt pay a non lawyer the same as a qualified lawyer would you?
 
Hi,
My dad does barefoot trimming and im not entirely sure but i think he has done a course at the natural animal centre in wales. Anyway, I have 4 horses, one is shod regularly because we tried the whole barefoot thing and because he had been shod religiously with the previous owner his feet have never had a chance to be natural. My other 3 are all barefoot and have no problems with their feet at all. Problems can arise because barefoot trimming and feet being trimmed by a farrier are totally different. Farriers usually just trim a foot down as they would before applying a shoe, or slightly differently but barfeoot trimming is about reducing the bars and creating a roll on the front of the toe. I do plenty of road work with my 15.1hh appaloosa and there is not a lot of wear at all. Her feet are perfect and she can walk on almost anything.
I do believe that it doesnt work for every horse but i think that it can benefit horses especially retired ones that are just turned out in a feild but are still shod because it is the 'right thing to do'.
Also barefoot horses are recommended to be trimmed every 4 weeks.
Well i have rambled on!
 
Your 3 yr old's hooves will presumably be subjected to a wider variety of surfaces when he starts work..school surface, gravel, possibly tarmac. Hooves are laminate, as you know, and designed to flex on contact with the ground (which doesn't happen with a shod hoof).. When they flex, the blood supply to the hoof is stimulated, and the hoof growth is increased.

Also, the frog acts as an auxillery pump when it makes contact with the ground and increases the blood supply to the legs...obviously this wouldn't happen so efficiently with a shod hoof....and again it helps with the general circulatory system of the horse.

Glass of wine and a packet of crisps if you got through that!!
 
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You see, there is my quandry.....My boy's shoes are worn at the front almost to the point they are razor blades, and he is re-shod every 5 weeks. Perhap's it's just him?

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maybe you should chat to your farrier about Natural Balance shoes...
 
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My mare was rendered lame and almost ruined by a barefoot practitioner.

MADNESS in my opinion if anyone thinks they can and should trim horses after about, as far as I can tell, a 2 day course.

Strasser trimming was what was carried out on my mare and as far as I could find out no one regulates this.

I really hate the barefoot is best crew who, frankly, can't answer to the x rays I show 'em of my poor horses feet!

by a qualified farrier!

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http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/erinshaw86/Feet%20Before/ This is how a qualified farrier left my girls feet, for 6 months he did nothing too them, just looked at them and said they where fine, when in fact she had a lot of flare and the bars of her feet where too far forward and never once did he mention any of these things! Im am not saying all farriers are crap, I still use this farrier to shoe my other horse as I cannout fault his shoeing, just his trimming forced me to look for another way!
http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/erinshaw86/Feet%20Before/feet%20now/ this is how my girls feet look now after 4 6-weekly visits from my EP - by no means perfect, but a lot lot better and Ive learned more about her feet in 4 trims by my EP than I did in the 5yrs Ive been using the farried.

I dont know anything about Strasser trimming, but i know my EP did a lot more than a 2 day course - see the link I posted earlier about the DAEP.

I understand that barefoot doesnt work for every horse, hence why I have my other girl shod, and I do agree that it would be better if barefoot practitioners where regulated the way farriers where but you still get bad farriers too and you dont tar them all with the same brush now do you?

Something to think about.
 
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You see, there is my quandry.....My boy's shoes are worn at the front almost to the point they are razor blades, and he is re-shod every 5 weeks. Perhap's it's just him?

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maybe you should chat to your farrier about Natural Balance shoes...

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Ummmm, yes. Have been told however, natural balance is a specialised profession, have heard really good comeback though and have given it a lot of thought. Would love to try it but feel a bit 'guilty' to my farrier who has gone the extra mile for my lad. Difficult one really........
 
I think you are getting confused with Cytek, who do have a limited number of farriers and a different system. Any reasonably competent farrier should be able to understand and fit Natural Balance shoes, and have an understanding of when it is advantageous to fit a shoe which sets the point of pivot back slightly
 
My 6 are all barefoot from 2 year old to 21 year old. It doesn't suit all horses but mine all doing well. My trimmer spent 3 years studying and can tell me more about the physiology and anatomy of the horse than any farrier I have met. One horse that was shod was always going unlevel - a problem solved when barefoot as his feet are always trimmed level and balanced.
Please don't condemn all barefoot trimmers on the few rubbish ones you have heard about! After all there are some crap farriers out there that have completed many years training and are still not doing a good job.
Going barefoot is a commitment that takes time and careful management.
If your horse is wearing his toes down so much I would look at his foot balance as theoretically a horse that lands toe first is lame.....
 
all 4 of my ponies are barefoot and have been for a couple of years. The new Tb i reacently aquired now has only front shoes on dispite havinge shoes on since he was 2 (ex race horse), the only reacon he has shoes on the front at the moment is because when i got him he had a HUGE chunk out of the front, his hoof literaly liiked like a cows hoof and the chunck was splitting and spreading higher. My farrier has put some shoes on to hold the hoof together until it grows out (and so far it is growing out realy well), once the foot has mended then he will be going barefoot.
My farrier is a specialist remedial farrier but i cannot fault how he trims my ponies feet, ive never had one of them go lame due to a foot problem.
we do alot of road work but to ensure we dont wear feet down too much (we do 3 hours a day on the roads some times) we use Boa boots on the ponies!
 
As others have said not all horses will work at the level their owner may require unshod although there are also many shod horses that do not require shoes for the work they do. As has also been pointed out, there are good and bad in every profession - including farriers and trimmers.

If you are thinking about getting a barefoot trimmer then you must get one who is fully insured and who is registered with a reputable body (such as the Equne Podiatry Association or Natural Hoofcare Practitioners ) that will censor them if they are not complying wth best practice and that bodies code of conduct. The trim is the least of your worries in a way as there is so much more to the process such as nutrition, conditioning etc

Barefoot trimming is very scientfic and a subject in itself and many vets and farriers have studied barefoot trimming in addition to their current qualifications. Look at Dr Bowkers work (professor at vet med centre Michigan state uni) and you will see that a lot of work is being carried out into the structure and function of the equine foot & barefoot trimming by vets.

A basic farriers trim is sufficient for many horses in light work, but something more specialised is required for horses that are working a bit harder, hence why people use a barefoot trimmer instead of a farrier.
 
I had PF unshod for several years in the UK on the advice of my farrier who said she didn't need shoes. To be fair she wasn't in heavy work, but did jumping, hacking, etc with no probs. I would always go to a farrier over a barefoot trimmer for advice on my horse's feet.
 
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To be fair, Strasser is a completely different ballgame to other barefoot trimming and i think many people know how bad it can be.
My FARRIER does NOT trim unshod hooves in the same way as he does a pre-shoeing hoof. A good farrier should be able to do a working trim as opposed to a paddock trim, which is completely suitable to an animal that is capable of working unshod. Some horses simply cannot go unshod.
 
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do agree that it would be better if barefoot practitioners where regulated

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Agree -
Equine dentists , therapists such as physios and chiros work withinlegislation as to what they can and cannot to to treat horses. Farriers can only pracitice thier trade with suitable experince and qualifications, and these professionals have governing bodies.
Some regulations would protect the good trimmers' reputations, and protect the horse owners from those who are not good. If a horse is left with painful abcess, it it a welfare issue too.
 
More formal regulation under legislation is only a matter of time
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The education of trimmers is improving and I would think that in the next few years there will be a formal UK qualificaton for trimmers and perhaps NVQ's/degree courses avaliable. I certainly think this would be the way forward.

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A good farrier should be able to do a working trim as opposed to a paddock trim

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I really do wish this was the case, but sadly it is not
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I have not yet met a traditionally trained farrier that as part of his clients consultaton will include gait analysis, give nutritional advice, conditioning advice, rehabilitation advice, advice on boots and all the other aspects that should be considered with a barefoot horse, more particularly one working at a high level. No farrier has ever asked me to fill in a questionaire, including details of work, surfaces worked on, feed, yard routiene, health problems etc etc. Vets, physios and barefoot trimmers have all asked these questions but not any of my farriers.
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In my experience most farriers do not trim the bars sufficiently (if at all - most don't touch them and let them overgrow) and few are very careful to remove flare. Frogs are often forgotten and left with low grade infections. Very rarely do farriers lower the heels sufficiently or get the distal/proximal balance exactly right. This type of trim is sufficient for many horses, particularly those with naturally good feet and the correct envronment. However, even with these horses, as work becomes more demanding it also demands more of the feet. This may necessitate shoes for many horses, some (but not all) of which could have remained shoeless had their feet had better structure and their owners better advice re environment, conditioning etc.

My own farrier is a great example of what I have written above - he is an EXCELLENT farrier and very highly regarded in my area, but he admits his farrier training was insufficent in terms of barefoot issues. Therefore he is going to attend a barefoot trimmers course designed for farriers and I have nothing but admiration for him for admitting he has holes in his knowledge and being prepared to further his education in this way. Of course I will have to pay £40 a consultation and trim instead of £10 for a tidy up, but it will be worth it
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Of course not everyone wants an indepth barefoot consultation or to pay £40 for a trim
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, so there will always be a place for a run of the mill farriers trim, but for those of us that do want to work barefoot horses at a high level then we do need the choice of either an appropriately trained farrier who has furthered his education or a barefoot trimmer.
 
Gemmy - that makes sense to me, it must work well for some horses to be without shoes but using a farrier to keep there feet trimmed makes so much more sense than trusting an unqualified 'trimmer' (even if they've done a course)
 
Not getting into the whole barefoot trimmer argument, as its something people are never going to agree on, but I would like to point out that from what I have read and understand on other forums the horse mentioned in the OP's first post that has recently been PTS had many other issues going on other than his feet and suffered from EPSM. Not saying the trimmer wasn't at fault, I don't know that, but there were other contributing factors, not least a messy personal relationship deterioration between owner and trimmer I believe.

Things are never quite so clear cut as we pick up on these boards on the net.

My personal experience has been 100% positive with my barefoot trimmer. I tried with my farrier, but it didn't work out.
 
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