I'm new... with an interesting dilemma I'd love any opinions on

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Half pony half cow

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Hi, I'm new here and was hoping to get some outside opinions on the horsey situation I'm currently in (apologies in advance if this gets a bit long!)

To give a bit of background about me, I have owned horses and ponies since I was a teenager when I worked at a riding school and took some qualifications up to BHS PTT. Since uni I've had a few horses on part and full loan but never bought my own as I've moved around a bit with my job and I was also worried abouts costs if things went wrong. Last spring my loan horse moved to a new yard which offered grass livery for the summer meaning I could afford to buy my own. I bought an unbacked 4yo to bring on and sell at the end of the summer, that all went to plan and my lovely little horse went off to a fantastic pony club home at the start of the school holidays.

Having had my own again after a few years of loaning reminded me how much I enjoyed the responsibility of getting to make all the decisions without having to check with the owner first. But I wasn't able to afford livery over the winter when grass livery isn't available so my livery costs alone would have gone from £50 to £200+ per month. Then a friend of mine suggested we should joint buy a youngster together, I would bring it on over the winter and she would help with the mucking out if I was busy at work during the week, we'd split the bills and then split the money when we sold her. So I jumped at the chance to have my own horse again and found a lovely 3yo warmblood X...

But there are a few things about the arrangement that are really starting to get on my nerves and I'm seriously thinking about talking to her about ending it. For starters I have been promoted at work so money is no longer a problem, I can easily afford her livery and everything else and have built up some savings should I need them. We also have no written agreement and I am still waiting for my friend to pay me back half of the purchase price, mine is the only name on the passport also. My friend has only paid for half the livery, feed and feet trimming bill so far, I have bought everything else like tack and rugs. I should add that the friend has a horse of her own and two ponies she keeps for her teenage cousins on the same yard.

The biggest thing that annoys me is that my friend is so unreliable, she frequently says she is going to do something like pick up feed or something similar and then 'forgets'. So all the horses are left 'making do' for a couple of days on reduced rations. I struggle to get to a feed store during the week so come the weekend I end buying what we need (getting enough for her horses too more often than not) to me it's irresponsible and although it's hardly going to do the horses any harm it still annoys me.

Other times she will muck out for me (thinking she's helping) but TBH she has much lower standards than me so I end up trying to surrupticiously do it again or put more bedding down. The crazy thing is that she'll muck out my stable before she's finished doing her own, so I'll get down after work and end up helping with her jobs because she's done all of mine already. It sounds daft but I'd rather just look after my horse!

I could go on but it all starts to sound a bit petty and boils down to me feeling like I'm not in control so now that I don't need my friend's financial support I'm seriously considering ending the deal. I would pay her back what she's paid so far but I'm concerned it might affect our friendship as she'll miss out on potentially getting more back when I sell the horse. Alternatively I could keep things as they are financially but take control of her feeds, I'm going to change her feed anyway so could suggest moving it to my tack room so it doesn't get confusing with her horse's feeds.

So, massive apologies for the huge long rant, anyone got any thoughts if you've managed to read this far?! What would you do?! (Apart from never having gotten in the situation in the first place - which I would never do again!)
 
I would carry on as is.

Without your friend you wouldnt be in this position in the first place.

So sell the horse when he/she is ready, then go it alone next time.

Friendships are far more important than 'deals'.
 
This is one to chalk up to experience. Stick to the deal, sell the horse and then next time go it alone.

Unless of course you want to keep the horse for yourself permanently. In which case, pay her what she is due plus a bit extra for her "investment" and dont make this mistake again in the future :)
 
I would explain to her that as things have changed financially you would like to take over all responsibility for the horse, possibly going to keep it longer and enjoy it, that you would pay her what she has put in and give her something out of any sale when and if you do sell.
I would then arrange for the yard to do any extras and pay for them rather than asking for favours, you know she has plenty to do so she should not mind, giving her a generous present when you sell should be enough to keep her happy.
 
You've stated she still owes you her half of the purchase of said horse? Therefore you own it as things currently stand? If things really are that bad and she's not currently doing her bit I'd pay her back her bit and say your considering keeping her. A bit sly but she too isn't really sticking to her word x
 
Tell her that you really appreciate everything she has done but you are in a better position at work and have decided that you'd like the horse to be just yours rather than a project to sell on and offer to "buy her out".
 
Can I just put this from a different POV? You couldn't afford to do this on your own, so you teamed up with a friend, which enabled you to do this, you now have a job with more money, so no longer need your friends financial input, so want to end the deal. As part of this you cite her being 'irresponsible' with not always fetching stuff when she says she will and her standards of mucking out are not good enough. Did the irresponsibility and low standards happen before you got more money? Tbh if I were your friend I would cut my losses now and leave you to it!
 
Kat said:
Tell her that you really appreciate everything she has done but you are in a better position at work and have decided that you'd like the horse to be just yours rather than a project to sell on and offer to "buy her out".
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That's what I would do.
 
YorksG said:
Can I just put this from a different POV? You couldn't afford to do this on your own, so you teamed up with a friend, which enabled you to do this, you now have a job with more money, so no longer need your friends financial input, so want to end the deal. As part of this you cite her being 'irresponsible' with not always fetching stuff when she says she will and her standards of mucking out are not good enough. Did the irresponsibility and low standards happen before you got more money? Tbh if I were your friend I would cut my losses now and leave you to it!
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It might be worth noting that I didn't ask this friend to get involved, she was the one who suggested it thinking she could make a little from the sale so from that perspective she is the one taking advantage of my ability to back and bring on horses! (I'm not saying I feel this way, just that it was a mutually beneficial arrangement at the start) Although I had been on a yard with her before I really didn't know how she kept her horses. Obviously they weren't badly looked after (and still aren't) I just find it a bit annoying that she says shes going to pick feed up so I don't go myself, then we end up running out. I'm not planning on making any rash decisions, that's why I was looking to get some outside opinions before doing anything, or not doing anything!

be positive said:
I would explain to her that as things have changed financially you would like to take over all responsibility for the horse, possibly going to keep it longer and enjoy it, that you would pay her what she has put in and give her something out of any sale when and if you do sell.
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I like the idea of giving her a little something when I sell, but it's hard to know how much? To put it in context I bought her for £250 (bargain price from a friend who needed to sell quick) and looking at what similar horses are priced at with her current ability (she's coming on really well) I'm hoping to sell around £2,500 or more if I keep her for more of the summer and do more with her - she's already qualified for Equifest on her first show last weekend!

I don't want to seem cold and heartless but having a horse is my way of winding down after work and sometimes I feel like I can't enjoy it because I've got someone else interferring all the time. So now that I don't need anyone else's input I'm really questioning why I should put up with it! I didn't include this in my first post (mostly because it makes me look a bit silly/ naive) but this same friend currently owes me £200 that I leant her in November because of a mix up in her pay, she said she's pay me back when she got her December pay but despite me asking a few times and her saying she's get it in a couple of days I haven't had it back yet... So yes I was stupid but the money combined with the horse situation is really starting to get me down and part of me thinks if I made a break from the horse situation (and reimbursed her minus what she owes me) then it might actually save our friendship...
 
It all sounds messy and friendships often cannot survive once money becomes involved, I would give her 10% of the sale price, that is standard on many deals. I once had a horse for sale, a friend told a friend who told another friend who came and bought the horse from me, both "friends" wanted 10% for selling it for me:eek: I gave them 10% to split.
 
It's an interesting situation and you have described it in an objective rational way IMHO. Hopefully you'll be able to resolve it in a similar way.
Sounds like your friend perhaps has some underlying financial issues: borrowed money not repaid as promised, share of purchase price outstanding etc. Could she beavoiding the feed run because she is short of cash at the time?
 
If she hasn't actually paid you for her "share" of the horse and she still owes you money that you have lent her from November..... I would reimburse her what she has paid towards the upkeep of the horse minus the £200 you are owed stating that you will now fully own him/her.

However I wouldn't expect it to go down to well as she is expecting/hoping for a nice easy earned sum of money when you come to sell!
If she is a valued friend and you dont want to upset relationships further, then as others have said you might just have to go along with it and go it alone on your next project.

Out of interest how long have you had the horse for?
 
Sorry fat fingers on mobile!
I would explain how much you are enjoying having your own horse, and that you appreciate her helping you get this one. However you want to keep things straight and clear, so if she wants to continue with deal she does need to buy half the horse as agreed.
If this is not possible for her now, you will give her x amount for the livery etc so far, less the money she borrowed. You can mention how lucky you are that promotion has given you the option for outright ownership unless you think she will be jealous.
The mucking out is harder to sort - she probably thinks she is really helping!
 
Half pony half cow said:
I like the idea of giving her a little something when I sell, but it's hard to know how much? To put it in context I bought her for £250 (bargain price from a friend who needed to sell quick) and looking at what similar horses are priced at with her current ability (she's coming on really well) I'm hoping to sell around £2,500 or more if I keep her for more of the summer and do more with her - she's already qualified for Equifest on her first show last weekend!
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TBH I don't think either of you are going to 'make' anything once you take into account livery/hay/feed/bedding/farrier/worming/vacs/etc........
 
HardySoul1 said:
Sounds like your friend perhaps has some underlying financial issues: borrowed money not repaid as promised, share of purchase price outstanding etc. Could she beavoiding the feed run because she is short of cash at the time?
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Yes I think that may be exactly the case, so I wonder if I might actually be doing her a favour by getting out of the commitment of another horse. I knew she had a slightly 'hand to mouth' way of living before but I didn't realise it was as bad as it seems, so when someone I trusted told me they could afford something I didn't question it... you live and learn of course!

Part of me is thinking it would be nice to keep the horse a little longer as she's turning out a lot better than I expected TBH! So I might approach it that way, say I'm thinking of keeping her so I'd like to buy her out now rather than mess her around down the line. hmmmmmm
 
piebaldsparkle said:
TBH I don't think either of you are going to 'make' anything once you take into account livery/hay/feed/bedding/farrier/worming/vacs/etc........
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Oh don't worry, I know full well I wont make a profit! I see it more of an incredibily ill-advised way of saving... Sort of the worst investment ever but at least you get to have fun along the way!
 
Id speak to her and say situation has changed and you want your own horse.
Total controls etc.
Say you may not even sell so she won't be waiting around for money.
Sounds like she is doing as little as she can for maximum return.
 
Half pony half cow said:
Oh don't worry, I know full well I wont make a profit! I see it more of an incredibily ill-advised way of saving... Sort of the worst investment ever but at least you get to have fun along the way!
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Perhaps your friend hasn't though.....

Half pony half cow said:
Part of me is thinking it would be nice to keep the horse a little longer as she's turning out a lot better than I expected TBH! So I might approach it that way, say I'm thinking of keeping her so I'd like to buy her out now rather than mess her around down the line. hmmmmmm
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Work out current market value, divide by 2, then
minus the half she didn't pay in the 1st place
minus the £200 she owes you and give her what is left (if she agrees to this).

State that you wish to keep the mare and that you have realized the longer you keep her, the more the expenses are eating into her value. Basically give her an out and see if she takes it.
 
It does rather sound as though you take advantage of your friends. This friend who helped you buy the horse and the other friend that you bought the horse cheaply off.

It certainly sounds as though you want out of this arrangement so I suggest you advise the friend you are in partnership with of this fact and offer to reimburse her the costs she has incurred to date less the money she borrowed. As far as her not getting feed in on time, most feed merchants will deliver if you give them a call although they will usually want payment on a credit card.
 
Slightly different situation but a relative had a pony she bought cheap and brought on. She got her dream job 100 miles away and needed to move quickly. midwinter so bad time to sell pony so I kept it for her until easter. She paid keep and I rode it. But when it came to time to sell I liked it too much to get rid! So we agreed I would pay her the same as I'd been offered by potential purchaser and transferred ownership to me. I knew she'd paid peanuts but she did almost all the work.
Ended up keeping the pony until it died many years later!
 
eggs said:
It does rather sound as though you take advantage of your friends. This friend who helped you buy the horse and the other friend that you bought the horse cheaply off.
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I'm not looking to make any enemies but that feel like a pretty harsh comment considering you don't know all the detail (which I'm hardly likely to post as we'd here all night!) As I said previously it wasn't me who suggested the partnership in the first place it was the friend, sure it worked in my favour too as I wanted another horse but no one made her get involved!

As for the friend I bought her off, I just paid the price he asked for! He was losing his grazing and had 2 horses to sell quickly, he made me a good offer because he knew she'd go to a good home but I was completely honest about my intentions to sell her on. If anything I was taking a pretty big risk buying a virtually unhandled 3yo purely because she has a floaty trot and good bloodlines! Sure I thought I was getting a bargain, but are you actually telling me anyone would offer more than the asking price just because they thought the horse was worth more?!
 
If you want to buy her out shed be well within her rights to ask for all livery back. Equally you could tell her that money is required within month or you'll end the agreement etc.
Either way I don't think you'll carry the friendship on.
If you value the friendship then suck it up. If not then broach it with her.
 
PandorasJar said:
Either way I don't think you'll carry the friendship on. If you value the friendship then suck it up. If not then broach it with her.
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Do you really think it will end the friendship? I've not decided anything either way but I was thinking that as long as I approached the matter sensibly she wouldn't be too upset?! I value the friendship a lot but sometimes I feel my good nature is being taken advantage of and think maybe I should put myself first for a change. Oh gosh, I feel like a terrible, selfish person now!
 
Honestly? It may not end it but unless she is looking to get out I think it will strain it.
If she is happy with the arrangement she may see your out for more money with the sale or be upset that you have used her for the livery this far.
At the least I'd expect my money back for livery as wouldn't want to have paid in to then have nothing.
Alternatively if she wants out she may be happy.

Unless your horse is amazing or little has been paid in livery I think it would be best to chalk it up to experience as paying that back may not make financial sense against a sale. Or if you want to keep the horse.

Rightly or wrongly I think anything like this has the potential to make a friendship go tits up or at the least change it. Also think about the kind of person they are... Do they have the potential to make things difficult if you ask and they say no?

I'm not saying your selfish and don't know both sides. There are two people I would do similar for and wouldnt mind if they pulled out. Neither side would ask on a forum though as we'd be certain the other side would be fine. I wouldnt do it for anyone else, but if I did, I'd be pretty annoyed tbh, dependant on how much money and time has been put in. I think you know there maybe issues or you wouldnt be aasking about it though.
 
I think the only way to do it is as someone else said, work out horses current market value & half it, then minus 125 & the 200 she owes you, then add on all the halves towards upkeep she has paid so far. Then offer the final figure to buy her out.
 
To be honest I got to page 1 and decided that your not much of a friend to your friend and stopped reading. You and your friend both made an agreement when you started a decent person honors that agreement where possible.

You knew when you started that the bulk of the work would be undertaken by you so why should that be a reason to back out of your arrangement?

Surely it should be that when you sell you take the amount she owes you for the cost of the purchase price plus your half of the remaining profit.

Decent friends are so hard to find but being a decent friend is also just as difficult when money is involved it seems.
 
Thanks for all the thoughts and opinions, it's been playing on my mind recently but I was struggling to find anyone to talk to about it as I couldn't be sure it wouldn't get back to her and I'd hate it to look like I'd been gossiping behind her back.

Regardless of anything else I'm going to take control of the feeding situation so I'm not faced with having to feed only chaff for 2 days as happened recently.

I'm also going to talk to my friend about my concerns rather than stewing over it by myself! I'm gong to offer to buy her out if she's struggling financially. But if she's happy to continue then I value the friendship too much to force her into anything.

I can certainly say that it's been a valuable life lesson and I'll certainly think very carefully about going into any sort of business arrangement with friends.
 
Your friend has yet to pay you for her half of the horse so the way I see it, the horse is yours.

I would refund her the money she has spent on livery/food etc. minus what she owes you for the loan over Christmas. Don't make up stuff about wanting to keep the horse on etc. she is your friend, be honest and tell her you feel trapped by the arrangement and since she hasn't paid this is what you are doing to make things right for yourself.

Good luck
 
I won't comment on your current situation.

But I will say to not do business with friends from now on, I had the same thing only we bought into a trailer together... I ended up paying the insurance, repairing it and paying all the petrol money when going to shows as well as using my car every time to tow it! Then it got to the point where I couldn't go to shows if she also wasn't coming?! So I asked her to buy me out and she did. I wouldn't ever do it again we are still friends but I learnt my lesson.
 
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