I'm sorry....another bit help question? I'm stuck!

[PooJay]

I'm sorry, i know there are loads of these but i'm a bit stuck!

I'm absolutely rubbish with bits but i need some extra brakes/respect for hacking.

Schooling i use a NS loose ring lozenge. Perfect for schooling and i have no issues

Trouble is, i'm getting tanked off with when i hack. I can stop her but it takes a really hard pull to get there and I hate doing this. She also then knows that she can run through my contact and tanks off over and over again each time we get to walk. Last night was a perfect example, plenty of puddles to jump and every time she landed she'd try to p1ss off after every jump/dip in the track etc etc.

I want something that she thinks twice about running through but also something that's nice in her mouth when she's being a good girl.

Now, she's got a big mouth but with very little room in there. Big fat tongue and big fat spongy lips. I've tried a myler and she did not respond to it at all, kinda got lost in all the spongy bits.

From there, i have nowhere to go. I have no idea which bits would be better for her or what has best stopping power but is nice to mouth when she's listening.

Can anyone help please?

I have bagels and marmite on offer for anyone that can!

 

[flyingfeet]

Use the same mouthpiece as your current bit but either in a bubble bit, running gag or curb gag form

Use with two reins so you only deploy brakes when needed

 

[PooJay]

Use the same mouthpiece as your current bit but either in a bubble bit, running gag or curb gag form

Use with two reins so you only deploy brakes when needed

Thank you I have no idea what that means but i shall research it! I'm almost ashamed to be this bad at bitting, having owned horses for near on 20 years i've never had the need for extra stopping power!

 

[flyingfeet]

Ok quick lesson

Bubble bits
(aka Continental gag, universal gag, dutch gag, Belgian gag, pessoa bit, 3 ring gag, 4 ring gag)
Faux gags - deploy slight gag action with light contact, then revert to poll pressure with heavy pressure

most fashionable is the universal use with or without curb

Running gags
True gags AKA - Cheltenham Gag (eggbutt), Balding gag (loose ring), Nelson gag (full cheek), Barry gag (W mouth evil polo brakes)

Work by raising the head, so ideal for horses that lean downwards. Relatively gentle as no mechanical leverage compare to a long shanked bubble gag

Again available in a lozenge mouthpiece, or even a Nathe if you want to splash the cash

Curb Gags
New kids on the block, very fashionable
Mainly made by bombers in a huge range of mouthpieces

With these you have a rein attached to the curb, deploys mild braking which often causes less arguments than the above bits, as its more subtle. Less raw braking power, but if the horse hates poll pressure and throws their head they can be very useful

Colin miles blue bomber curb gag - very fashionable

 

[Ferdinase514]

Have you tried turning the lozenge upside down Put the arrow on the right hand side, rather than the left. Works wonders with a NS Veribend

 

[flyingfeet]

That would only work with a NS verbindend as its the only bit with a lozenge set at angle (because NS have patented this!)

On a straight lozenge would make no difference

 

[JGC]

Have you tried turning the lozenge upside down Put the arrow on the right hand side, rather than the left. Works wonders with a NS Veribend

Ooh, thanks for the tip, FMC. Just got a Verbindend this morning in the post so will give it a go!

OP, your's sounds very like my mare. Mine came with a pessoa gag and I still rode her in that out hacking for a while with two reins, but I would have changed it for a universal bit eventually, as I'm a bit dubious about the usefulness of these bits without any kind of lipstrap.

I actually school sometimes and compete in a double, so I now use that out hacking - mine (usually) only tries to bog off in summer as she hates the flies plus she has "hormone issues"! Then she's fine in the snaffle autumn to spring.

Mine has a very similar sounding mouth to yours, and I must say she looks much more comfortable now that she's in a drop noseband - neither the cavesson or a flash looked right for her.

 

[ihatework]

When my horse went through this phase in the spring I put him in a double!

Something cheap to try would be a Dr. Bristol.

 

[PooJay]

Ok quick lesson

Bubble bits
(aka Continental gag, universal gag, dutch gag, Belgian gag, pessoa bit, 3 ring gag, 4 ring gag)
Faux gags - deploy slight gag action with light contact, then revert to poll pressure with heavy pressure

most fashionable is the universal use with or without curb

Running gags
True gags AKA - Cheltenham Gag (eggbutt), Balding gag (loose ring), Nelson gag (full cheek), Barry gag (W mouth evil polo brakes)

Work by raising the head, so ideal for horses that lean downwards. Relatively gentle as no mechanical leverage compare to a long shanked bubble gag

Again available in a lozenge mouthpiece, or even a Nathe if you want to splash the cash

Curb Gags
New kids on the block, very fashionable
Mainly made by bombers in a huge range of mouthpieces

With these you have a rein attached to the curb, deploys mild braking which often causes less arguments than the above bits, as its more subtle. Less raw braking power, but if the horse hates poll pressure and throws their head they can be very useful

Colin miles blue bomber curb gag - very fashionable

Wow thank you she's a tough one, she can lean and tank but equally can curl up, tense and sit right behind the bit/contact and hollow too so i'd rather her be into the contact but stoppable and respectful of it but happy to mouth it and stuff too (am i asking too much )

FinnMccoul - The lady from bit world told me that when i bought the NS one from her, i've never tried it before but she did say that a SJer did this when her horse got too strong I'll have to give it a try, it would defo save me some money if it worked!

JGC - i may well give a drop nb a try too, she does open her mouth a tad when avoiding my "aids" but i think even if i did put a drop on her she'd still lean and tank instead. She's clever, i'll give her that! I'm not entirely sure a double would fit in her mouth either...it's massive on the outside but sooooo small on the inside - all lips and tongue lol I'm also very nervous of her potentially dropping away from or behindthe contact. It's taken a loooong time for her to trust (and now take the p1ss out of) and take the contact and i think too much bit in there would shut her down again.

ihatework - a Dr Bristol - what action would that have that is different to another lozenge type bit? Sorry for numpty question

Thanks guys, some really helpful replies!

 

[Ferdinase514]

I found it by accident - think it has a similar action to Dr Bristol - tongue pressure.

 

[PooJay]

I found it by accident - think it has a similar action to Dr Bristol - tongue pressure.

Thank you muchly and you answered 2 questions in 1! I'll defo give that a try next time we head out for a hoon!

 

[Jarrive]

Possibly try the Neue Schule Beval Bit?

http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/P/..._wilkie_bit_loop_ring_neue_schula-(1020).aspx

Same mouthpiece, but gives you some poll pressure (cheek pieces attach to top loop, reins to bottomloop). Similar action to Dutch gag/bubble bit/three ring gag (whatever you want to call it!) but less bulky (and I know you shouldn't choose a bit on how it looks but think it looks a bit smarter too as not so obviously screaming its a gag!!).

 

[wench]

NS universal worked wonders on my TB!

 

[Polotash]

I've had this with youngsters too, they all go through a phase of trying it on! I either use a Dutch gag as someone else said, with same mouthpeice as their schooling bit plus two reins, or for cobbier types an old fashioned vulcanite pelham with two reins. Either way, you ride on the "snaffle" rein, then when they try and tank, you give them a "no" with the curb rein. Works a treat and they soon learn not to be rude and go back into their snaffles.

If that fails a Myler combination might be worth a try (they are pricey and don't suit all horses, so find a friend with one!). I use the short shank combination on my old mare who is a delight until you need to pull up from gallop and is bl**dy strong then! It works using a mix of hackamore action, curb action, and a snaffle mouthpiece.

If I was you I'd try the Dutch gag first as it has the slimmest mouthpeice and shouldn't encourage her to lean. Yes to dropped noseband too, she needs to learn it's rude to open her mouth. Have it tight enough that it only comes into play if she opens her mouth, you don't want to hold her mouth shut, you want to prevent her opening it (there is a difference). This was she'll learn what is and isn't wanted.

 

[PooJay]

Thank you guys! Defo like the NS dutch gag type bit. She definitely needs to learn some manners out hacking, she's getting very rude and if i let it escalate it's going to start to get dangerous as we don't have the quietest hacking

Thank you very much everybody - i am going to try my back to front NS first and if that has little effect i'll certainly try a dutch gag. With both though, i'm going to try a drop noseband. Anyone have an extra full havanna drop noseband they want to sell? (preferably jeffries!)

 

[sjp1]

My chap was just like this. I struggled to find him a bit he would be OK in, and came across the NS Verbindend which I bought in a loose ring.

Fine for road hacking, but I had to take a real pull to get him to slow down or stop cantering up tracks etc.

So I bought the NS Verbindend with the Universal sides. I use pelham roundings on it and it is ABSOLUTELY FAB!!

 

[Ferdinase514]

The upside down NS doesnt give tons of leverage, but I found that Cob over reacted in a pelham (bouncing/rearing) and was horrid in the Universal (heavy like tank). Dep on the horse really and I think you sometimes have to swap around a bit. Agree with ^^ that the Veribend with universal sides might work if you need more "pull".

I have a Myler comination that I used on Finn - it is incredibly strong and I can imagine some horses really over reacting to it.