Impar ligament/collapsed heels/heart bars help please

[fjordgirl75]

My horse went lame Jan 2013 and had various investigations that finally ended in an MRI scan that revealed many things including moderate swelling of the impar ligament, mild swelling of ddf tendon some fluid in bursar etc etc. The lameness itself was not profound though.1/10th maybe or 2/10th at most. His heels had completely collapsed. Looking at the pictures of his feet now I can see the issues but at the time we never saw it coming.

He had irap and some box rest then I moved him to being out 24/7 which he loved. He also had heart bars on. Sept 2013 he was sound. I have been riding him in all 3 paces and hacking and he's been sound ever since. I have not and will not jump again.

He was shod last week and went lame. Now I am not convinced it's the original problem as it seems odd he went lame as soon as he was shod. My farrier is coming to have a look at him.

He has lost his 'quarters' on his right foot - so this foot has been taken right back - I presume this could make him lame?

Long term are the heart bars going to cause problems with the foot? Is there a better solution? I think the ligaments etc are healed now but he has no heel at all so we would be putting them under strain again.

Thanks

 

[toomanyhorses26]

Honestly I would consider doing a barefoot rehab - my horse had a similar injury with a few other bits, was shod with wedges and bars and it gave a brief improvement but allowed his feet to just flatten further to the point his heels just faded away and his frogs completely rotted away under the wedge pads . Lameness returned and we came to crunch point - he went to Rockley after some fighting with the vet and has been sound now for 5 months and is basically back to what he was doing before but moving soooooooo much better as a result - yes we aren't totally there yet and I reckon I still have another year of his hooves settling down - he has two massive event lines onhis feet and several smaller ones higher up with the hoof wall growing down at better angles but I fully believe I would be looking at a field ornament now if I hadn't taken his shoes off

 

[applecart14]

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?218999-Impar-Ligament-Please-help!
http://forgingahead.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/horse-foot-anatomy-lesson/
http://fiveoclocksomewherejewelry.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/its-impar-ligament-this-time.html

THe above links re: Inpar ligament, the last link is a 'case history'.

Haven't read them so not sure if they will help but thought you might like to read them.

Good luck, I am sure you will manage to sort things out x

 

[amandap]

As Rockley Farm has been mentioned it's worth reading their blog for barefoot approach info.

 

[Ronalda]

Long term are the heart bars going to cause problems with the foot? Is there a better solution? I think the ligaments etc are healed now but he has no heel at all so we would be putting them under strain again.

True support comes from within the hoof's internal structure and not from an exterior appendage.

The presence of the shoe over time guarantees atrophy of the digital cushion, lateral cartilages and frog and thus prevents true heel engagement.

Gradually bringing back the toe will reduce the underrun and cause the heel to stand up.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

MHis heels had completely collapsed.

How are his heels now?

He has lost his 'quarters' on his right foot - so this foot has been taken right back

Do you have a photo? i don't understand exactly what you mean.

I have to third Rockley Farm. BF is certainly my preference with hoof problems due to my past experiences.

 

[amandap]

True support comes from within the hoof's internal structure and not from an exterior appendage.

The presence of the shoe over time guarantees atrophy of the digital cushion, lateral cartilages and frog and thus prevents true heel engagement.

.

This is my understanding and in my opinion is one of the most misunderstood or ignored factors of hoof care throughout a horses' life. The biomechaics of hoof landing and how it affects ligaments and tendons in the hoof and leg is another one.

 

[fjordgirl75]

How are his heels now?



Do you have a photo? i don't understand exactly what you mean.

I have to third Rockley Farm. BF is certainly my preference with hoof problems due to my past experiences.

Hi his heels are somewhat compacted by the heartbars. But today he was sound and we think he just reacted to the most recent shoeing. I am so torn between barefoot and what we are doing and may need some time to think it through. I think on the next shoeing the farrier is going back to regular shoes and a wedge.

Okay the quarters are the part of the hoof near where the nails go - this looks like someone has kneaded playdough on one hoof. I will take a pic next time. It's not that bad but means the farrier is switching to normal/wedge next time...he said it looked like he was putting more weight on that hoof.

I had seem Rockly before - is there anywhere like that in the North/central UK?

thanks for all the advice and links,

 

[amandap]

Okay the quarters are the part of the hoof near where the nails go - this looks like someone has kneaded playdough on one hoof. I will take a pic next time. It's not that bad but means the farrier is switching to normal/wedge next time...he said it looked like he was putting more weight on that hoof.

I take it the farrier hasn't used filler?

You need time to think things through carefully.

 

[fjordgirl75]

I take it the farrier hasn't used filler?

You need time to think things through carefully.

filler on hoof or instead of wedges?

 

[amandap]

Filler on the hoof where it looks like playdough.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Ok, so the horse had collapsed heels, then Heartbars were put on and now the heels have compacted (do you mean contracted?) and you've got some odd 'playdough' effect going on at the quarters?

I'm going to be blunt because I have gone through hoof trouble with my mare and I wish that someone had said it plainly to me at the time, so please don't take offence.

Why on earth would you put wedges on this poor horse and it's frankly, deformed hooves? They will only further damage the caudal hoof. Please seriously consider Rockley or doing a proper BF rehab yourself.

Sadly I don't think that there is an alternative to Rockley in your area (I'd be thrilled if there was as more places like this are needed).

 

[WellyBaggins]

My horse was diagnosed with Impar ligament strain last Feb, we tried all conventional treatments, Steroid injections, grad bar shoes and egg bars, we also tried Shockwave therapy, none of which worked. I decided to take his shoes off and turn away, I left him 4 months then started him barefoot, he was much better than he was shod but he was still lame right fore so I left him again (no shoes) until 11 months when after much discussion and brainstorming I decided to try a middle ground, he is now in Imprint shoes and *touches ALL available surfaces* he is sound and very happy in them. I would recommend trying barefoot as I know many people have had success but if that doesn't work maybe consider glue on good luck whatever you decide!

 

[fjordgirl75]

Ok, so the horse had collapsed heels, then Heartbars were put on and now the heels have compacted (do you mean contracted?) and you've got some odd 'playdough' effect going on at the quarters?

I'm going to be blunt because I have gone through hoof trouble with my mare and I wish that someone had said it plainly to me at the time, so please don't take offence.

Why on earth would you put wedges on this poor horse and it's frankly, deformed hooves? They will only further damage the caudal hoof. Please seriously consider Rockley or doing a proper BF rehab yourself.

Sadly I don't think that there is an alternative to Rockley in your area (I'd be thrilled if there was as more places like this are needed).

Hi no the correct word is compacted as it become compact. This pretty much means the same as contract but the physiological process is not a contraction so from a vets point of view this would not be correct.
The playdough effect can happen with any hoof and is to do with weight baring - this may be another issue I need to investigate - he is basically putting extra weight on one foot for whatever reason. I need to get teh osteopath to check that out.

He was a right off from the mri scan and it was suggested I put him down and the heart bars have brought him sound so actually they have kept him alove for na extra 9 months and his feet are 1000 times better than they were.

He is not a 'poor horse' he is a very much loved horse and I will consider every option carefully and not rush into anything.

I have been thrilled with the fact the heart bars have brought him sound but now want the next option for him.

 

[Andalucian]

You've asked for help and faracat among others is giving it. You might not like what you're hearing but due to her personal experiences she's trying to make you see that the only hope for your horse is without shoes. The problem is that the foot has collapsed through lack of natural function, and this cannot be corrected in shoes. Heart bars hide the problem temporarily,but they also worsen it which is why you have had a period of "success" then deterioration.......it happens every time.

There are the sad facts from a horse owners perspective who has lost a horse after bar shoes failed at 13 but has two super sound 19 year olds who came out of shoes at 10 when bar shoes were prescribed and didn't look back.

It's up to you but don't shoot the messenger....you did ask.

 

[ester]

I'm confused as to what they playdough effect is?

It does seem to be reported pretty often that bar shoes provide a soundness that doesn't last long term.

 

[cptrayes]

True support comes from within the hoof's internal structure and not from an exterior appendage.

The presence of the shoe over time guarantees atrophy of the digital cushion, lateral cartilages and frog and thus prevents true heel engagement.

Gradually bringing back the toe will reduce the underrun and cause the heel to stand up.

I'm sorry Ronalda, but I can't agree with your last statement there. Maybe I misunderstood you, but taking the toe back at the front will not reduce an underrun at the back of the foot. But it can reduce the total bearing area of the foot and cause soreness if done at the wrong time. To see that you do not need to back the toe up to cure an underrun heel, there are many examples on the Rockley blog, none of which have the toe trimmed back, but all of which resolve underrun heels.

 

[amandap]

I'm confused as to what they playdough effect is?

It does seem to be reported pretty often that bar shoes provide a soundness that doesn't last long term.

Yes I read that all the time on forums but I suppose that explains the poor or guarded prognosis for many of these problems..

I am now guessing the playdough effect is the hoof collapsing on one side and the wall bulging and distorting.

I don't see contraction the same as compaction.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Re contract V compact - what I was asking (as i don't know what your horse's hooves look like), is have the heels contracted? This often happens with bar shoes and can lead to sheared heels if allowed to continue. Are the heels also under-run? Are the toes long?

I still don't understand what you mean by 'playdough,' again this is because I haven't seen the horse IRL.

I would consider any horse with hoof problems a 'poor horse' it's not an insult to you, just that I know how tough it is on the horse involved and I hope that the horse's hooves can be improved.

Please also understand that many of the people who post on these threads and recommend a BF rehab, have had horses with hoof problems and their horses have gone through various farriers/Vets/treatments/remedial shoeing etc... Some have nearly lost their horses only to finally get positive results via a BF rehab. We suggest the rehab with such gusto purely because we want to save other owners all the heartbreak, suffering and lost months caused by following the traditional routes, which sadly eventually fail and fail until you have nothing to lose by trying BF.

 

[amandap]

Strangely, todays Rockley blog post shows the progress of two horses who came out of wedges for rehab.
http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.ie/2014/05/double-dylandillon-delight-and-buddy.html

 

[Ronalda]

To see that you do not need to back the toe up to cure an underrun heel, there are many examples on the Rockley blog, none of which have the toe trimmed back, but all of which resolve underrun heels.

Indeed there are many examples at Rockley and Nic has made no secret of the fact that she has moved away from barefoot trimming as such, and now encourages the horse to create it's own ideal foot.

For those of us without access to a Paddock Paradise there is no doubt that some rasping is useful in speeding up the rehabilitation process.

Underrun heels are invariably linked to a long toe and gradually bringing back the toe and lowering (an already low) underrun heel in order to move the foot further under the leg is another method of balancing a distorted hoof.

 

[fjordgirl75]

You've asked for help and faracat among others is giving it. You might not like what you're hearing but due to her personal experiences she's trying to make you see that the only hope for your horse is without shoes. The problem is that the foot has collapsed through lack of natural function, and this cannot be corrected in shoes. Heart bars hide the problem temporarily,but they also worsen it which is why you have had a period of "success" then deterioration.......it happens every time.

There are the sad facts from a horse owners perspective who has lost a horse after bar shoes failed at 13 but has two super sound 19 year olds who came out of shoes at 10 when bar shoes were prescribed and didn't look back.

It's up to you but don't shoot the messenger....you did ask.

Definitely not shooing the messnger - just feel sometimes folk can be a tad patronising and also make judgements! No one chooses for there horse to be lame and I will not rush into anything. I'm making a measured judgement by asking on this and other forums. I have contacted a barefoot trimmer who does rehab locally but need to get both sides of the viewpoint.

 

[fjordgirl75]

Okay the playdough analogy is because I have no idea what the name is for what I saw but the farrier said it was to do with uneven weight distribution. Imagine a child has sculpted a hood from playdough - so basically the hoof did not look as even/smooth as it should - it is not visible now as was trimmed/filed so nothing to take a photo of.

Checked with vet and his heels have compacted not contracted. Not sure if these are two separate things.

 

[fjordgirl75]

Are there any negatives to barefoot? Are there cases where it doesn't work?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

If the horse has cushings then BF might not work.

{QUOTE] just feel sometimes folk can be a tad patronising and also make judgements! No one chooses for there horse to be lame [/QUOTE]

I can assure you that my post was not meant to come across as patronising. I warned you that I was going to be blunt and gave my reason why. Plus I don't believe that anyone (who's sane) would choose for their horse to be lame.

 

[devonlass]

Are there any negatives to barefoot? Are there cases where it doesn't work?

There can be many negatives to barefoot, and despite being an avid barefoot fan and having barefoot horses for many years I would suggest you don't rush into it without discussion with your vet, farrier and careful consideration as to whether you can realistically manage a barefoot horse.

I have just had one of mine shod after months of low level lameness, he is now sound and will stay in shoes for the time being. Ironically it would seem being barefoot might be in part what actually caused his problems, so yes there are cases where it doesn't work.

I have a really hard time managing my other one barefoot, due to my grazing his feet fall apart every summer. I am still persevering for now because I would prefer him bare and I work around it, but it is hard and takes a lot of work and causes an awful lot of frustration at times. You need to consider if you can rehab and transition a horse to barefoot, because its all very well people saying take off the shoes but if you can't facilitate a barefoot horse management wise its pointless, there is so much more to barefoot than taking off the shoes unfortunately.

I would never say taking off a horses shoes is a bad thing but having seen both sides of the struggle now I would say its not a decision to be taken lightly and depending on how you manage your horse not necessarily the best decision.

 

[criso]

but need to get both sides of the viewpoint.

Having had a Rockley horse I am biased however I would like to point out from the traditional approach of farriery and some drugs has limited success

Here is the abstract of one of the more recent studies http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21039796


But I have seen the breakdown of success rate of some of the issues you mentioned

Distal sesamoidean impar desmopathy 26.6 % returned to work
Deep digital flexor tendinopathy 21.8% returned to work

I had both those plus collateral ligament desmitis (10% success rate) so it really was unlikely that my horse was going to come right as 18 months of a traditional approach confirmed.


The cases when it hasn't worked that I know are horses that have had multiple issues where the feet turned out to be the tip of the iceberg.

For myself it worked brilliantly and my horse came back into full work including jumping but subsequently injured his shoulder and had to be retired. Feet are great though.

The downsides are managing a horse barefoot can be tricky at times as a fair proportion turn out to have some level of grass sensitivity and this can be especially tricky on livery yards where you do not have alot of control and flexibility.

 

[fjordgirl75]

If the horse has cushings then BF might not work.

{QUOTE] just feel sometimes folk can be a tad patronising and also make judgements! No one chooses for there horse to be lame

I can assure you that my post was not meant to come across as patronising. I warned you that I was going to be blunt and gave my reason why. Plus I don't believe that anyone (who's sane) would choose for their horse to be lame.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for clarifying - forums can be a scary place when you're new to them.

 

[fjordgirl75]

But I have seen the breakdown of success rate of some of the issues you mentioned

Distal sesamoidean impar desmopathy 26.6 % returned to work
Deep digital flexor tendinopathy 21.8% returned to work

Are these figures for barefoot or regular shoeing?

 

[fjordgirl75]

My horse is out 24/7 and we have no stable but there are two shelters. He does get cracked feet in summer and I struggle with his weight. I'm struggling to ascertain if that would make him a good or bad candidate? I am happy to feed a supplement and currently shoe every 4 -5 weeks at £150 a pop fronts only so regular trimming/visits not an issue.

My farrier is very anti barefoot but at the moment has banned jumping for ever more. My horse does not really have any heel in the heart bars so I do feel we have just been masking the issue but my farrier says barefoot will give the wrong angle and this will put the ligaments under strain - vet also agrees. So very confused.