Imprint Horse Shoes on Laminitics

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dressage_diva

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Has anyone had any experience of laminitics wearing Imprint Horse Shoes? If so, did your horse have any pedal bone sinkage and how long did it take for your horse to show significant improvement after having the Imprints on?

I have a 21yr old gelding with laminitis whose pedal bone has sunk in the right fore. He's had Imprints on for a week and shown slight improvement, but nothing significant and we are concerned that given the lack of immediate significant improvement we may need to pts (he is bright in himself).
 
Our laminitic girl has just gone back into Imprints (and copper sulphate flavoured Equipak), after having a bit of a setback.She walked across to the farrier area as if she was treading on hot coals, and came back on springs. The improvement was instantaneous - she took a few tentative strides, realised her feet didn't hurt, and she was off. She's had them on a week now, and she's bouncing around like a spring lamb. I'm sorry your lad isn't doing as well - it's heartbreaking watching them in such a state.

Shehad moderate sinkage of both pedal bones, and some rotation of one - we've also had a few issues with gas pockets. She's been rehabbing since an acute attack in January (16 years old, and never had it before). It's a crappy, horrible condition - we've shed so many tears over the dear girl...
 
Pleased to hear they're working for your girl Auslander. You are definitely right about it being a horrible condition. I have shed so many years over my boy this last week or so (it is his first ever laminitis too). Was certain we were going to have to pts this morning but vet agrees to give him until the end of the week given he has shown slight improvement.

Out of interest how quickly did you get the imprints on your mare after X-rays showed sinkage? My boy deteriorated on the Thurs and vet saw him (thought abscess) but we couldn't get him xrayed until the Friday afternoon and then couldn't get a remedial farrier until the Monday. I fear the delay in getting them on hasn't helped. I think if I had any other horses suffer this in future I would get them on as soon as he was diagnosed with laminitis and slight rotation rather than waiting until he deteriorated (but I didn't know about them then and he seemed to be improving on the heart bars we out on him originally!).
 
dressage_diva said:
Pleased to hear they're working for your girl Auslander. You are definitely right about it being a horrible condition. I have shed so many years over my boy this last week or so (it is his first ever laminitis too). Was certain we were going to have to pts this morning but vet agrees to give him until the end of the week given he has shown slight improvement.

Out of interest how quickly did you get the imprints on your mare after X-rays showed sinkage? My boy deteriorated on the Thurs and vet saw him (thought abscess) but we couldn't get him xrayed until the Friday afternoon and then couldn't get a remedial farrier until the Monday. I fear the delay in getting them on hasn't helped. I think if I had any other horses suffer this in future I would get them on as soon as he was diagnosed with laminitis and slight rotation rather than waiting until he deteriorated (but I didn't know about them then and he seemed to be improving on the heart bars we out on him originally!).
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The first set went on about 4 days after she was diagnosed - she was in kaolin poultices for the first few days while we co-ordinated vet and farrier - was a bit tricky getting them both in the same place at the same time. I'm lucky in that my farrier does a lot of remedial work, so it was quicker than finding a new farrier with experience of fitting Imprints.

She had 3 cycles of Imprints, then a month barefoot, then heartbars with Equipak - now back in Imprints as she wasn't comfortable in anything else. She's tested negative for Cushings, but we are treating her with EMS in mind - strict diet, Metformin and aspirin (for improved circulation), and Metacam for pain relief (she was on bute, but we reverted when she had the setback)
 
I had imprints on my cob years ago, and she too showed an instant improvment. She was stable bound for 6/8 weeks, and then was barefoot. Her attack was very mild and caught early.

Little cob who had horrific laminitis 2 years ago had heart bars and equi pak from the start. He had in all four feet and was stabled for 11 months. He showed much slower progress (in comfort) , but his rotation was very severe in all four feet, and his back feet sunk. In fact his back feet were no longer technically attached to the rest of his body!!
 
They are amazing. Seen amazing improvements on several horses.

Primarily, this is because the hoof wall is no longer taking load. If you imagine a lolly stick pushing though a plastic cup, that's the pedal bone (and the weight above) tearing the laminae in the capsule. With no support in the middle of the cup, this is a searing pain. The imprint provides support to that lolly stick so it's not tearing laminae inside. It's stabilises the sinking bone. The hoof wall has to be trimmed nicely to the sole so that the sole can also support the pedal bone or it won't work for long.

Sorry about lolly stick analogy, crude but that is the very basic of what is happening.

This is why barefoot works so well for laminitis, with someone who knows what they are doing, stabilising the pedal bone inside the hoof is key to healing. It's exactly what the imprint shoe is emulating.
 
dressage_diva said:
Pleased to hear they're working for your girl Auslander. You are definitely right about it being a horrible condition. I have shed so many years over my boy this last week or so (it is his first ever laminitis too). Was certain we were going to have to pts this morning but vet agrees to give him until the end of the week given he has shown slight improvement.

Out of interest how quickly did you get the imprints on your mare after X-rays showed sinkage? My boy deteriorated on the Thurs and vet saw him (thought abscess) but we couldn't get him xrayed until the Friday afternoon and then couldn't get a remedial farrier until the Monday. I fear the delay in getting them on hasn't helped. I think if I had any other horses suffer this in future I would get them on as soon as he was diagnosed with laminitis and slight rotation rather than waiting until he deteriorated (but I didn't know about them then and he seemed to be improving on the heart bars we out on him originally!).
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If there was a gap between the x-rays & the shoes being fitted I wonder if anything had changed & so the trim &/or shoe fit isn't ideal? If you can afford it I'd try to co-ordinate a vet & farrier visit to redo x-rays & see if anything can be improved, tiny changes can make a huge difference.

Good luck, and don't give up hope yet.
 
They were discussed for mine but the farrier who was recommended by my vet thought they wouldn't be rigid enough for him, he is a wb x. He had heart bars instead but to me, the hoof boots with pads we got him in to later have made the most difference. They provide as much support (he had sinkage too) but with more scope for stimulating sole growth.
 
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JillA said:
They were discussed for mine but the farrier who was recommended by my vet thought they wouldn't be rigid enough for him, he is a wb x. He had heart bars instead but to me, the hoof boots with pads we got him in to later have made the most difference. They provide as much support (he had sinkage too) but with more scope for stimulating sole growth.
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Boots are a really good alternative and sometimes much better - particularly with pads in.
 
tallyho! said:
Boots are a really good alternative and sometimes much better - particularly with pads in.
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Tallyho! you sound like you've had lots of experience with laminitis? Have you ever seen a horse take a while to improve with the Imprints on?

Do boots with pads just make the horse more comfortable or can they restabalose the pedal bone too?
 
dressage_diva said:
Tallyho! you sound like you've had lots of experience with laminitis? Have you ever seen a horse take a while to improve with the Imprints on?

Do boots with pads just make the horse more comfortable or can they restabalose the pedal bone too?
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Read The Laminitis Site, it's all on there, including outcomes which are much better without shoes - boots with their pads provide the support the pedal bones need,, but that support is across the whole foot.
 
We used styrofoams which were taped on & changed regularly. They conform to the shape of the foot & support the whole sole, they made my horse instantly more comfortable & because they're taped on they don't move - wrongly or rightly that would concern me about pads in boots unless the boots were a perfect fit.
 
Whilst I agree that going without shoes has many benefits, we tried it with our girl, and she was not able to cope. She had boots and pads, but she was really struggling, hence going back to shoes. When you've got a horse in horrible pain, there is nothing wrong with going for the option that makes the horse most comfortable, and in our case, that was Imprints.
 
dressage_diva said:
Tallyho! you sound like you've had lots of experience with laminitis? Have you ever seen a horse take a while to improve with the Imprints on?

Do boots with pads just make the horse more comfortable or can they restabalose the pedal bone too?
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No difference between the two. They have improved greatly with both... you see, the principle is there. The pressure has to come off the hoof wall in the early stages and by supporting the frog, however which way, styrofoam/imprint/boot and pad/deep bedding etc. it's the support.

Just think, it's the hoof capsule the turns around the pedal bone... Do you see? The bones cannot move much, the are fixed with tendon and limited joint mobility. Any rotation is the rotation of the capsule around the bone. If the perimeter is too high, the bone will "sink" down, pushing the sole and hoof wall out and forward. What the imprint or pad does is, it lifts the pedal bone from underneath. Providing instant relief.

If you put the edge of the plastic cup on a ring on a table, let's say, the lolly stick will push through until it reaches the table. This causes a bulge on the underside of the cup. It could pop through. So supporting the frog which is in fact the support for the pedal bone, will naturally be a relief.

As long as you can maintain the relief until swelling all stabilised, healing has started, then, the hoof can support itself with as little as half of the new strong laminae, 6-8weeks as long as you do not periphally load the hoof... I.e. The wall. All load bearing surfaces must bear weight.

Heart bar shoes provide this but the outcome is often, not always, worse as the back of the hoof is closed and never able to strengthen. So you get what is essentially, muscle wastage of the digital cushion, hard to get back. So every time you try barefoot, you will encounter trouble and it will hurt the horse. It would take months to build a digital cushion strong enough to weight bear nevermind absorb shock. So, shoes will be best, unless you can afford a year or so, maybe more on soft, then hard ground.

Do look up Rockley Farm. No affiliation but valuable research.
 
Thanks TallyHo. Have you had any experience where Imprint shoes have not managed to lift the pedal bone?

Horse definitely can't go to Rockley Farm at the moment as would not be able to stand the journey.
 
I had a 17.2 hunter go down (literally) with acute laminitis. He had lost one shoe the day before, vet removed the other shoe and strapped putty pads on. A week later the pads came off and he went into RX therapy boots with thick pads.
Every day I removed the pads, scrubbed and dried his feet and put dry pads in (he was very good at keeping his feet up for me). He wore those for about 3 months.
I took him fully barefoot after that.
He wasn't xrayed, but vet reckoned there was a bit of sinkage going by the indentation above the band.
 
dressage_diva said:
Thanks TallyHo. Have you had any experience where Imprint shoes have not managed to lift the pedal bone?

Horse definitely can't go to Rockley Farm at the moment as would not be able to stand the journey.
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No. Never heard of it not working but all cases were x-rayed first to make sure there No other abnormalities. Your farrier will need the X-rays before fitting the imprints.
 
dressage_diva said:
He was xrayed prior and the farrier worked from them when fitting them.
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Then all should be good. It's a long waiting game, patience really is a virtue with laminitis. Don't be fooled early on by soundness if any is shown. Give laminitis time to heal properly and the hoof time to grow and grow well. Allow some time with no shoes to allow the hoof to build up the structures inside if possible. 6 months isn't too long :)
 
dressage_diva said:
Has anyone had any experience of laminitics wearing Imprint Horse Shoes? If so, did your horse have any pedal bone sinkage and how long did it take for your horse to show significant improvement after having the Imprints on?

I have a 21yr old gelding with laminitis whose pedal bone has sunk in the right fore. He's had Imprints on for a week and shown slight improvement, but nothing significant and we are concerned that given the lack of immediate significant improvement we may need to pts (he is bright in himself).
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Yes my horse had imprint shoes some sinkage and some rotation, give it time a week is not that long
 
dressage_diva said:
Thanks TallyHo. Have you had any experience where Imprint shoes have not managed to lift the pedal bone?
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While I agree with people saying that a week isn't long to expect a big improvement & that anything to support the whole foot is the way to go I just want to add a depressing note of reality - not all laminitics can be saved. Sometimes even the best possible treatment & care isn't enough. I know that sounds harsh & it isn't meant to, but if he doesn't make it it's even harder on you if you believe that doing something else would have saved a horse that clearly means a lot to you. Everything crossed that he does make a good recovery though.
 
Outcomes have been shown to be much improved with a proper realigning trim. I changed my horses management from heartbar shoes to barefoot with boots and pads when I read that outcomes are so much better, I'm not a naturally evangelical barefoot person but reading The Laminitis Site did make a lot of sense.
You need to distinguish between the active inflammation of the laminae and immediate risk to the pedal bone, and the subsequent healing and regrowth process, when the risk is still there because good strong laminae have not yet taken the load. Mine is 10 months on, 3 months from getting rid of the shoes that masked the problems, by providing the support but not the balance and hoof development. He is sound and working but we still have to develop his soles and heels more, so his boots are there for rough stony ground.
 
Nari said:
While I agree with people saying that a week isn't long to expect a big improvement & that anything to support the whole foot is the way to go I just want to add a depressing note of reality - not all laminitics can be saved. Sometimes even the best possible treatment & care isn't enough. I know that sounds harsh & it isn't meant to, but if he doesn't make it it's even harder on you if you believe that doing something else would have saved a horse that clearly means a lot to you. Everything crossed that he does make a good recovery though.
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Thanks Nari, I appreciate that. I've already had the 'logistics' talk with my vet about what happens on Friday if we haven't got any positive news by then, as I'm determined not to be selfish and keep him going just for my own benefit. Right now I'm willing to give him a couple more days as he's bright in himself, asking for food, trying to nudge his door open and the vet has agreed that seeing if he can improve by Friday is not cruel and she fully supports my decision.
 
dressage_diva said:
Thanks Nari, I appreciate that. I've already had the 'logistics' talk with my vet about what happens on Friday if we haven't got any positive news by then, as I'm determined not to be selfish and keep him going just for my own benefit. Right now I'm willing to give him a couple more days as he's bright in himself, asking for food, trying to nudge his door open and the vet has agreed that seeing if he can improve by Friday is not cruel and she fully supports my decision.
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Be sure that you are giving soaked hay (20mins max) and no food that has a high starch content. No food at all is best, just soaked hay. Sugar makes the situation worse for laminitics. Unmollassed sugar beet is about the only thing suitable and it has a high calcium content which will help things. Absolutely nothing that is grain based either. A handful of grass nuts as a treat is better than any treat containing grain starch.

The detox process is as crucial as the farriery/trim/boot/imprint shoe. I've seen and heard people have lots of success with Global Herbs Restore or P45 by Trinity Consultants.

Two weeks should see some improvements, the inflammation that caused the laminitis should be receding if you've addressed the underlying cause/s. I hope he makes an improvement but I think you are being wise and pragmatic about the outcomes.
 
tallyho! said:
Be sure that you are giving soaked hay (20mins max) and no food that has a high starch content. No food at all is best, just soaked hay. Sugar makes the situation worse for laminitics. Unmollassed sugar beet is about the only thing suitable and it has a high calcium content which will help things. Absolutely nothing that is grain based either. A handful of grass nuts as a treat is better than any treat containing grain starch.

The detox process is as crucial as the farriery/trim/boot/imprint shoe. I've seen and heard people have lots of success with Global Herbs Restore or P45 by Trinity Consultants.

Two weeks should see some improvements, the inflammation that caused the laminitis should be receding if you've addressed the underlying cause/s. I hope he makes an improvement but I think you are being wise and pragmatic about the outcomes.
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Hi TallyHo, I'm following my vets advice on feeding - he is having soaked hay and only a small amount of Spillers Happy Hoof for breakfast and dinner in order to take his bute (vet wants him on feed as he is loosing too much weight being in).

I now have Andrew Poynton (who invented Imprints) coming out today to examine him and refit the Imprints (vet is going to take fresh x-rays whilst we are there for him to work off), so this is our last hope!
 
dressage_diva said:
Thanks Nari, I appreciate that. I've already had the 'logistics' talk with my vet about what happens on Friday if we haven't got any positive news by then, as I'm determined not to be selfish and keep him going just for my own benefit. Right now I'm willing to give him a couple more days as he's bright in himself, asking for food, trying to nudge his door open and the vet has agreed that seeing if he can improve by Friday is not cruel and she fully supports my decision.
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Seriously? Does that mean you are considering euthanasia without giving the poor horse the time he needs? Send him to me, I'll take him off your hands
 
JillA said:
Seriously? Does that mean you are considering euthanasia without giving the poor horse the time he needs? Send him to me, I'll take him off your hands
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I have been listening to my very experienced vet, my regular farrier and the remedial farrier and none of them have ever seen a horse in his condition recover. I am getting out one of the top laminitic farriers in the country this afternoon for his honest opinion - he's already seen the various xrays and we are taking more this afternoon before he tries to give him some pain relief by refitting the Imprint Shoes.

They are all very experienced with laminitic horses and are concerned that the lack of any significant improvement in his pain levels is very worrying. There is no way at his age he can continue in such pain much longer without it having a detrimental effect on his quality of life. I am not taking this decision lightly, but when the experts are saying to me that it would be inhumane to keep him alive into next week (unless he suddenly starts to improve) I do have to listen to them! He can barely put any weight on his right foot at present and is struggling to even more around his stable. We have tried heart bar shoes, frog supports and now Imprint Shoes.

I am not giving up on him yet, but I also have to be realistic and accept that if all the experts are telling me this is the end of the road, then I have to do what is right for the horse and not selfishly keep him alive in pain if there is no hope of him ever becoming field sound again (I do not want to resign him to a life of box rest!).

I am keeping my fingers firmly crossed that the new farrier this afternoon (who is coming with a different experienced vet from my practice) is able to get him some relief.
 
JillA said:
Seriously? Does that mean you are considering euthanasia without giving the poor horse the time he needs? Send him to me, I'll take him off your hands
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Knock it off. The last thing this poor woman needs at the moment is strangers on the internet getting all judgemental. She isn't going to euthanase for the hell of it - none of us would. A bit of empathy would not go amiss.
 
Auslander said:
Knock it off. The last thing this poor woman needs at the moment is strangers on the internet getting all judgemental. She isn't going to euthanase for the hell of it - none of us would. A bit of empathy would not go amiss.
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Thank you. Trust me I am doing everything I can for this horse - I've had him since a 4yr old (he's 21 now). But I also understand sometimes the best thing you can do for a loved pet is to end their suffering.
 
dressage_diva said:
Thank you. Trust me I am doing everything I can for this horse - I've had him since a 4yr old (he's 21 now). But I also understand sometimes the best thing you can do for a loved pet is to end their suffering.
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I completely understand - having been going through this since January. It's a rotten, horrible condition, and I wouldn't condemn anyone for the decision they make, either way.
 
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