Improving youngster's confidence

kc100

kc100

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My WB is 2 (2 years 4 months to be precise) and is absolutely wonderful, incredibly well mannered lovely boy and I've been very lucky to have him as my first foray into owning a youngster (have ridden many youngsters and handled them before but have never owned one until last yr).

He's been taught all the usual - picking feet up, standing tied up, walking in hand, stopping when I stop in hand...he loves being groomed, leads brilliantly, calm in 99% of situations but can be a tiny bit jumpy if something catches him by surprise (but hey, what youngster wouldnt be mildly surprised when 4 dogs come running full pelt around a corner head first at you!). I've lunged him once with my trainer when he was visiting and he was a superstar, learnt very quickly and took it all his stride.

Now I've taken the approach with him (owned him since he was 1) to let him be a horse and not do too much with him, when I first had him he was taught the basics and lived out 24/7 with not much interference from me. He lived out with a mixture of different horses but had older horses to learn from and younger horses to play with. When he turned 2 I made the decision to move him to a stable (he is out overnight for around 15 hours so plenty of grazing time), he didnt cope too well with winter last year and lost a lot of condition, grew the most ridiculous winter coat and subsequently got lice. So he's now on DIY and is in much better condition than he was when living out. I know this may not be everyone's choice for a youngster but as a chestnut WB with very fussy skin (gets every skin condition going) it made more sense to move him into a stable to help keep him in better health. I still dont do too much with him, his day mainly consists of sleeping & eating with a quick brush from me.

Now he is getting a bit older and filling out more (he is starting to look like a horse now rather than a gangly baby) I want to do more groundwork with him - note by groundwork this is NOT lunging, I dont agree with young horses going round in endless circles so I am talking about in-hand work and getting him used to a few things like standing next to mounting blocks, walking over poles etc. I'm only likely to do this once maybe twice a week at the most.

What I've found on the times I have taken him into the school is his attachment to me/lack of confidence. My trainer also pointed this out, he just wants to be close to me at all times which is adorable but obviously he needs to learn to have confidence by himself.

So does anyone have ideas of exercises to do or anything I can do to help him get some confidence of his own, rather than taking his confidence from me? He's not scared of much if I'm holding it (can rub plastic bags on him, dangle a lunge whip over him etc), but again I think that's just him being close to me so is accepting of the situation, rather than him actually being happy with the situation of his own accord. On Sunday I tried working on standing him still then moving away from him (letting the lunge line out slowly) but as soon as he realised I was more than about 3 or 4 steps away from him he would walk back over to me. Is this something that can be improved with more practice or is there something else I should be doing?

Perhaps it may come with age and as he gets older he will be more confident - but any suggestions are very welcome!
 
This is where I think desenstising and doing groundwork actually does no good for a horse that lacks self confidence, the horse learns to take a lead from the handler and lacks confidence to go out in front/ alone, I find long reining probably the most beneficial work with youngsters they have to lead rather than follow and meet hazards without the person on the ground getting there first, the same with lunging they can work around the whole school moving forward and start to think, using poles etc to make it interesting and get them looking where they are going rather than becoming reliant on the person on the ground.

Sending away, as in join up may help but the aim is for them to come to you when asked so they tend to still be looking for the person to make all the decisions, which is why many then find it confusing, on long reins everything is clearer and makes sense when you move on to riding.

I would not be expecting much of a 2 year old, spend time letting him learn about his surroundings and leave the real work until he is being started properly.
 
Tbh I wouldn't worry about it or do any more groundwork until he is ready to be backed.

Once they are out long reining they soon learn to cope with strange sights and sounds. The most ill mannered horses I have come across are those that have been fuffed with when they were young.

You have taught him all that is necessary, just continue as you are and crack on next year :)
 
He's only 2; bit early to be doing very much with him I think. Far from being "adorable", him always coming in to you is going to be a major problem unless you teach him to stay out and not invade your space (tap him on the nose, with a stick - DIDN'T SAY hit him with it - and make him stay out). When he is older and ready to start training I would be instilling the "move forwards" command as early as possible.
 
My gelding was very similar, always very clingy and we have worked hard at teaching him to maintain his distance from me when leading (he's like scooby doo jumping in your arms when scared!) but tbh the most difference has come from his age - he turned 4 this year and is much more confident and ready to explore on his own. We tried longreining last year and it just stressed him far too much, this year he has taken to it perfectly and with no worry, so you may just need time.
 
Sorry just to be clear he doesnt come in to me on the lunge (he has been lunged once when my trainer was visiting - didnt feel it necessary to do any more lunging as he picked it all up very quickly), and he doesnt invade my space when walking in hand next to me or when halting, if he comes into my space he gets moved back/away. It was only when I made him stand still, then walked away slowly that he came in to me, after I'd got about 3 or 4 steps away. Even when I tried to move him back and walked away again, he still followed. He knows when I have a lunge whip in my hand and have extended it out that he doesnt come into my space, there were no problems at all him trying to come to me on the lunge. Perhaps that is my answer, I didnt have the lunge whip at this point so holding that might help.

Again just to clarify re. how much I'm doing with him, Sunday was the first time in months we'd been in the school just for a little potter about, having a look at the surroundings and sniffing about at all the new things in the school. Its not 'work' as such and I'm not planning on regular sessions, I am in no hurry with him and well aware of his age so all of his time is spent eating or sleeping with little interference from me other than turning him out in the evening. I just think its helpful for him as a youngster who is very switched on and a quick learner to occasionally go and learn something new, only once in a while but I can see he really enjoys sniffing around new things and finds it fun to experience something new. He isnt a youngster that has been over-fussed, he lived out for a year last year and was hardly touched, now his interaction with people is only being turned out/brought in - but I've been lucky enough to have a youngster that has a good, trainable temperament and has great manners.

I dont think it is a hard and fast rule that working with youngsters means they are going to be ill mannered - there is one on my yard who was bred by his owner, hardly done anything with him and he's 3 now, and is a complete nightmare for anyone other than his owner and even she struggles with him sometimes. He is bolshy and knows his size, and takes advantage of that. And she really hasnt done anything with him other than teach the basics, he is just a bolshy sort of horse and will be a challenge to break, that is clear to see! I've seen the over-worked ones become ill-mannered, and I've seen the ones that have done nothing be ill-mannered as well. I really think you have to judge the individual horse you have in front of you not just judging them by their age, and in my horse's case he is a tiny bit too attached to me yes hence why I was asking if there is anything that can be done - but he is by no means over-worked having gone in the school twice in the space of 4 months, once for a quick lunge whilst my trainer was here and the other time for a sniff about.

Interesting to hear lots of votes for long-reining (when he's older of course) - its not something I'm experienced with to be honest and I'd be conscious of doing it wrong and making a mess of it. I have looked into finding someone to teach me in the past but never found anyone locally who actually specialised in it; is it something you can have a go at with a bit of prior research (I do have a book and could spend some time on youtube etc)? Or do you need to be taught properly?
 
Long lining has been wonderful with all of mine. Basics established in the school, then out to the field and finally on quiet lanes and bridle paths. I start long lining when they are about 2 and a half but if they don't cope, I delay. My Sec D wasn't ready until he was 4 and wasn't backed until he was 4 and a half.

I've found they like the mental stimulation of long lining and l set up courses of cones to 'steer' round.

He will tell you what he is comfortable with - go with your gut. You know your horse best.
 
kc100 said:
Interesting to hear lots of votes for long-reining (when he's older of course) - its not something I'm experienced with to be honest and I'd be conscious of doing it wrong and making a mess of it. I have looked into finding someone to teach me in the past but never found anyone locally who actually specialised in it; is it something you can have a go at with a bit of prior research (I do have a book and could spend some time on youtube etc)? Or do you need to be taught properly?
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I'm another to vote for long lining. It's best to be taught properly and with an established horse.

I can long line my older two fine, and have started youngsters before, but have elected to send my 4 yo away for starting, as I'm simply not agile enough these days! She's at a yard that does things the traditional way, with lots of long lining on the roads and lanes before backing. She's going very well now, but she did try and whip round a couple of times early on, and you need to react really quickly, and appropriately, to that.

Interestingly, the lady who does the breaking says that, in her very extensive experience, horses never turn out as well if she has to miss out the long lining out and about for any reason (such as snow or ice), but has to stick to the arena. It teaches independence and forward thinking.
 
I think you can teach yourself if you have a good feel and experience with correct lunge work but not with a young untried horse, it is too easy to get in a muddle and do more harm than good, better to practise with something that already knows what it should be doing so you can concentrate on the reins, steering, maintaining the rhythm and control, it is not difficult to do but is, like most things that are beneficial, hard to do well and get good results.
 
I am another who do nothing until you are ready to back him .
However I would stop letting him into your space right now unless you invite him there for a good reason , its not adorable it's the first little glimmer of something that can develop into a big issue .
I would teach him to long line with another horse .
This sounds like the sort of horse where a horsey mentor is a good way forward when training starts.
 
long lining and loose schooling will teach him to man up and cope on his own :)

it is part of the issue we had with Goof-he was super super confident with EVERYTHING.....as long as i was there and when i wasnt, when i was on top, he freaked.

i did loads of long reining and since being away(to be ridden away) he has done loads more loose schooling(i dont have a round pen) and he is 500% more confident now :)
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
long lining and loose schooling will teach him to man up and cope on his own :)

it is part of the issue we had with Goof-he was super super confident with EVERYTHING.....as long as i was there and when i wasnt, when i was on top, he freaked.

i did loads of long reining and since being away(to be ridden away) he has done loads more loose schooling(i dont have a round pen) and he is 500% more confident now :)
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That's great to hear - I dont have a round pen either so dont dare loose school him in a big open outdoor school in case he felt the urge to jump the fence! I think I have made my decision about where he's going to be backed next year and they have all the facilities (indoor, outdoor plus round pen) so it's good to know he'll hopefully come on leaps and bounds next year when he goes away.

Am off to borrow someone's pony to long rein.....will practice away between now and next spring ready to have a go with my little man!
 
ive just been to see him this morning and he was a total dude, rider got straight on with about only about 2mins lunging and was walking round whilst horses were being turned out and he was foot perfect and you could see from his face 100% confident in what HE was doing :)
 
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