In a bad situation. Is there anyone, especially in Central Scotland, with ideas (or just hugs)?

Caol Ila

Caol Ila

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To make a long, sordid story short, I moved my horse to a yard I thought would suit her perfectly. All seemed well Thursday and Friday and I wasn't able to go to the barn on the weekend, but Sunday, the YO called me to say that the horse was pacing, the worst she has ever seen in any horse (don't I know it), and says she can't help the horse and wants the horse off the yard. Like right now. Like yesterday.

I found options (the original barn isn't one). God knows if they will work any better. I know in my last thread, people mentioned euthanasia, and I'm realising that is something to think about, but dammit, it's impossible to think clearly about decisions like that when the YO wants your horse gone ASAP. I'm trying to get in touch with my vet.

I wrote about everything in detail to my American friends on the Chronicle forum. Rather than repeat all of it, here's the thread: https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/off-course/10498017-moving-barns-wwyd.
 
Oh blimey. I'm much too far away to be practical help but I have been in that frying pan/fire yard move situation and I know how crap it is so sending a hug your way :(
finished reading the CoH thread. I would move her again, obviously you have to, and give it another go before considering other options. you're at a low point now so it's not a good time to be thinking things through.
it may be that there was just something about this new place that she didn't like. When I got it badly wrong, my horse was horribly unsettled by some neighbouring pet pigs that I hadn't been aware of before moving there. She gave herself a crooked neck in the stable from staring out at them and jumped out of the field daily trying to escape... I thought I have chosen the right place but she made it oh so clear that I was wrong about that. But the next place was a different story and she settled well immediately.
 
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What is your gut feeling about yard A?

Has YO of yard B spoken to yard C about your horse and after that conversation have they still agreed to take her.
If yes my inclination is to say I'd try moving her once more, as she really hasn't been given a chance to even think about settling at the current place and then decide.
I did think after the last thread I couldn't watch my oldie pace regularly (he will do it occasionally, he actually did it really badly just before I moved him from our last yard due to him being on individual turnout (his fieldmate had left) and people bringing in horses, YO couldn't catch him). It would be a constant worry to my already not great nerves that he'd give himself colic or similar.
 
Are you in Barn B or Barn A now then?If A, go to B! I'd be wary of A though.

I have been in this situation too and it;s a nightmare. In fact I have been in it twice but the yards were very different so what I did was different too.

Yard 1: cheap and cheerful grass livery. Get a call that my horse is 'wrecking fences' (ie leaning on old wooden boards and breaking them) and needs to be gone immediately.

Yard 2: expensive competition livery yard - horse on full livery and yard staff can't catch her and she is escaping fields and disrupting the place. Needs to go.

In both cases I had a contract allowing notice. But yard A was run by irrational, angry people and the contract meant nothing really. Some folk are just a law unto themselves. So I went door knocking (literally) and manned the phones. :Looked at feedstores for ads pinned up. Social media recommendations. Ended up finding a couple of options that I would never have known about without really hunting for them. Small private yards.

Yard B was far more professional and while they were arsey and unpleasant, I just told them I needed notice to find a new barn and frankly the issue was their problem - they needed to find a solution that worked for the horse. And also that their 'solution; of bannning turnout was unacceptable! She ended up there for another 3 weeks.

So which barn are you in? And can they really just kick you off or do you have more time. Arsey you can deal with..... Just take deep breaths and smile and be polite!
 
I read it that OP is in the barn recommended by the transporter (ergo B) instead of going to initial plan (A)
and barn C has been recommended by YO of B.
 
People with immaculate yards and grass usually want it to stay that way. More settled in a box sounds to me like no one can see the horse stressing. What yard owner with half a brain would suggest it be kept indoors long term. I used to livery at a farm where the farmer spent nothing but you had access to turnout 24/7, it’s the happiest I ever was over the all singing dancing yard with wash box etc etc.
It sounds as it your horse hasn’t had time to settle and was cutting up the grass. I knew a fence walker that would go hock deep.
I would go for option A, even just for breathing space.
I find everything easier if they have a friend, so the stress heads I pair with something chilled until they are turned out in the herd. I know this may not be possible but if you find somewhere where they would pair her up and give your horse a chance to settle in to a routine, then you can breathe and then really decide if you want to PTS.
 
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ETA from Ester's reply it sounds like I am missing some elements of your horse's needs so my reply may not be useful to you. Hope it all works out.
 
honetpot said:
I find everything easier if they have a friend, so the stress heads I pair with something chilled until they are turned out in the herd. I know this may not be possible but if you find somewhere where they would pair her up and give your horse a chance to settle in to a routine, then you can breathe and then really decide if you want to PTS.
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I wondered about this on the last thread, my stresshead would do similar if I was a one-horse owner. Keeping her in a happy place means I have to keep 2 horses on the yard so she is paired up with a buddy that rarely leaves her side. She has to be in her own paddock otherwise the buddy gets kicked but that works well. It's a difficult time to set that up now though even if it would work, and I don't know if the OP could afford to do it (it cripples me but she's worth it!)
 
honetpot said:
I find everything easier if they have a friend, so the stress heads I pair with something chilled until they are turned out in the herd. I know this may not be possible but if you find somewhere where they would pair her up and give your horse a chance to settle in to a routine, then you can breathe and then really decide if you want to PTS.
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Trouble is OP said previously she has not behaved well with others hence the individual turnout.
 
have you considered contacting local farmers and asking if you could put the horse in with sheep? might be better totally away from livery yards and other horses, this worked well for one of mine some years ago. Hope you find a solution and the horse settles.
 
I've read the whole COTH thread now. I am really deeply unimpressed by the yard asking you to move an older, anxious horse after just a few days. If this is the place I think it is (Ie where Mark Rashid does clinics near Glasgow) they are meant to be horse centred and paragons of horsemanship! Rashid is there now - I am going up tonight for a clinic that starts tomorrow - perhaps they are more stressed than usual but that is no excuse to take it out on your poor horse. Don't you have a contract? Can you dig your heels in too. I am not sure they are allowed to kick you off without a notice period.

Maybe PTS is the right option for an older, anxious horse with other health issues. But you should NOT be being pressured into making a fast decision imo. Really sorry you are in this situation.
 
Christ, what a mess. I'm sorry, that sounds really difficult. Obviously the best solution would be for the current YO to give her some time to settle, but clearly not... I'd probably try yard A, because I don't really trust most horsey people to give honest, reasonable opinions.
 
Hi i see you are glasgow. There are some very good patient transporters in that area and are good with tricky loaders. Feel free to message if you want details x
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Can you revisit the yard you were given the negative info on and reassess how you feel about it with your own eyes and with this info in mind? if you are close by you can check on her more often too.
Often rumours need to be taken with a pinch of salt. But make sure you are conscious of why you are going back - look over every stable door, walk the fields if you can (even one and have a good look over fences at others) Speak to liveries that are already there ask lots of questions especially how long people have been there to see how quick the turn over of liveries is. Is the advert for livery up on FB a lot can you see.

I know it seems like your upsetting and older pony by moving again, but I think best to do it sooner than later to get all the moving out of the way in one go. She won't have settled into a herd or had the stress of working out herd dynamics as you keep her separate.

At least if you move one last time it will give you a bit more time to think about PTS without the pressure of a YO wanting her off
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I too know who Barn B are and I'm pretty disgusted that a yard that advertises as "for the horse" could do this to you.

They knew the horse's "issues" and that you were arriving from a bad situation given that you appeared on their door the same day. To tell you two days in that the horse is fence walking (that they knew about prior to the arrival) and to go is ridiculous. I mean it's ridiculous for a "normal" YO never mind one that is all about the horse. Two days for a 26yr old stressy horse and they want you off now?! That is even crueler than the YO that you just left.

On top of that they advocate 24/7 stabling for a horse with arthritis? It's cruel enough for a healthy horse never mind one that actually needs movement.

I imagine that it's too far for you but a nice retirement livery (with indoor and outdoor schools, 84 acres) has just opened in Forestmill (15mins from Kincardine Bridge). It probably won't be ideal for you long term but it'll buy you some time and give you some head space to think options through. They have space just now I'm sure so it helps if you need somewhere immediately.

There is a retirement yard/barn set up in Bonnybridge advertising and that would be closer to you, but still a lot of travel, but I'd avoid that like the plague. PM if it's something you'd want further details about in case you'd considered it as an options.

Where about are you? Glasgow is pretty big so hard to work out areas that might suit.

There is full livery in Denny and what about Easterton? I visited there a few times to see a then friend years ago and the place was an absolute dive with lots of poor animals. I'm presuming it's been taken over as it looks much better now and healthy horses. Lots of hacking and indoor/outdoor schools.
 
Horrible situation, particularly as you've been so up front about your mare's issues - so sorry for you and your horse. I don't have anything useful to add bar I would try to move her somewhere that actually is horse-centred and let her settle before considering PTS. Hugs sent over the ether. :)
 
I'm reading it differently to everyone!
I read it as Yard A was the yard you were originally moving to which is the yard you have been warned off by multiple people, but is where you have also ended up but have now been asked to leave.
If this is the case then although B is 20 miles away I'd be trying there. I was doing 28 miles each way (including 5 junctions of the m25 - ugh) it's a pain but do-able.

Equally I guess if where B is where you landed after the transporters recommendation, given as you've got to go then get to yard A and just give it a try for yourself. So long as you maintain a good level of sufficiency/do as much as you can for your horse yourself, you may have to turn a blind eye to other goings on but it at least gets you some breathing space.

And failing that I'd rethink the retirement livery, big herd arrangement - find one with a good YO to do careful introductions and try her turned away whilst the weather's crap at least. I've known a couple of horses not do well in paired or small herds do good in a big stable herd where there's not too much coming and going.
 
I think I know the yard too, and if it is the one I am thinking of they were unable to accommodate my horse's needs too. It was their way or no way. Which is fair enough when it is their yard, but not if they knew the problems before you came, accepted your horse, and are asking for you to move after just 2 days without trying to work on the problems.
 
chaps89 said:
I'm reading it differently to everyone!
I read it as Yard A was the yard you were originally moving to which is the yard you have been warned off by multiple people, but is where you have also ended up but have now been asked to leave.
If this is the case then although B is 20 miles away I'd be trying there. I was doing 28 miles each way (including 5 junctions of the m25 - ugh) it's a pain but do-able.

Equally I guess if where B is where you landed after the transporters recommendation, given as you've got to go then get to yard A and just give it a try for yourself. So long as you maintain a good level of sufficiency/do as much as you can for your horse yourself, you may have to turn a blind eye to other goings on but it at least gets you some breathing space.

And failing that I'd rethink the retirement livery, big herd arrangement - find one with a good YO to do careful introductions and try her turned away whilst the weather's crap at least. I've known a couple of horses not do well in paired or small herds do good in a big stable herd where there's not too much coming and going.
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I don't think you're reading it right ;)
 
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I'm in the North West corner of Glasgow. To clarify, she ended up at Barn B, which is the barn everyone here thinks it is. That's why I'm so shocked. If anyone could help her, it should have been that yard. Horse is currently set to go to a yard about 40 miles away but owner will work with her until I can find a solution closer. Right now I don't even have time and space to look at other yards. Anyway, vet agrees I should give her another chance before considering euthing.
 
I have read the CoH thread, I would certainly give it a go at the yard you originally intended to move her to. There is no evidence that it is anything than as you saw it. Your horse may love it there. Being close to home has a lot to recommend it.

My horse was not allowed at the yard you are at now as I requested a grid over the door. Apparently they don't agree with them on principal. I was trying to get him to a clinic to work on his anxiety and a grid was to keep him safe until we had worked on it. I had offered to take the grid and brackets. Never been a problem at any other yard we stayed at.
 
I am quite shocked at Yard B considering all the hype about them, that said I happened to see them at a vet's practice once and was unimpressed with the way they handled a horse that was reticent to walk into a stable. Unfortunately, your location is part of the problem, the West is notoriously wet and this last month or so has been particularly bad so fields are going to get cut up easily with a fence walker which obviously YOs won't be keen on.

In your situation, I would be looking for a herd based retirement livery further East although I seem to recall you mentioning she isn't good with other horses. Perhaps if that could be overcome with careful introductions it may work and having company may reduce her anxiety-related behaviour.
 
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If the yard didn't think they could help the horse, they can't help the horse. At the end of the day, fair enough and horse needs to be elsewhere. Still sucks though. Giving it another shot a another wee place but if she can't settle options are limited. She's a tough horse and getting tougher as she gets older. These neuroses only seem to get worse.
 
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honetpot said:
I’ve had two with separation anxiety and the value of a small hairy pony who has seen life and is more interested in food can be never under estimated as a companion.
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I've just done exactly this. Our mare can be a nightmare with others but hates being on her own.

We recently acquired a mini shetland and she is thrilled with her new buddy!
 
I can let you know about a close-ish yard (about 20-30 mins drive) that I found to be absolutely fabulous, but only does herd turnout. PM me if you need details.

Good luck with whatever you decide is right for your horse!
 
Have PM'd you.

The horse had been standing in all day, which meant she wasn't fencewalking but she was quite sore and stiff behind. That tells me a yard where she's in all the time isn't an option, either. If she can't cope with turnout and can't stay in, that's a serious problem. :(
 
Caol Ila said:
If the yard didn't think they could help the horse, they can't help the horse. At the end of the day, fair enough and horse needs to be elsewhere.
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No one can know that they can't 'help the horse' 3 days after arriving. Given the yards sells itself as a 5* livery yard with a focus on helping horses and overcoming emotional/behavioural issues with empathy and patience then I am appalled. In fact I am so angry on your behalf that I really wish I was not going there tomorrow now!
 
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