In despair

[Marigold4]

My lovely young horse that I have owned since a baby has had a blood test and it has come back with raised liver enzymes. GGT 124 AST 700s. He had changed from liking his work to being unwilling to go forward. Yawning in stable but not in field. Had back done, saddler visited, teeth checked. He's a pretty obliging little chap so when he was still unhappy, asked for bloods to be taken.

Now I've read lots of posts that don't exactly fill me with hope - unlikely to find the cause, you treat it and it keeps getting worse or improves then reverts. I will need to get the others tested and feeling gloom and doom that they will be affected too.

I can't think how this has happened. They are kept at home under my watchful eye, simple diet, nothing I can think of that could cause this in their field, fed expensive Gelston or Marksway haylage as local hay was very dusty this year. Wormed in March with Pramox. Vaccs always up to date.

Sheep briefly on field before I took it over but that was 3 years ago.

Not sure really what I want from this post, just maybe some sympathy and happy ending stories from those who been through this as right now I'm in despair.

 

[Carrottom]

Sorry I can't offer any advice or experience, hopefully now you have a diagnosis you can begin treatment. It's horrible when our horses are ill but all we can do is our best. Testing your other horses may indicate if the cause is environmental.

 

[shortstuff99]

I had this recently with mine and was advised to change hay and or grazing. I ended up doing both as I was moving yards anyway. For the re-test the enzymes had gone back to normal. I would recommend using a liver supplement and changing hay and then seeing what it is like in 4-6 weeks.

 

[ester]

I don't remember our figures but we had issues ermm 4 years ago - photosensitivity in late october the only symptom. Horse had recently (about a month previous) moved back to my parents (but other horse ok) always had home made hay, nothing in either pasture, essentially drew a blank despite lots of researching other than maybe something that was old age/stress induced from the move.
Bloods improved somewhat over the following 6 months - maintained on milkthistle.
Didn't test after that, horse still alive at 28 and having been on daily bute for 2 years so very confusing.

 

[rabatsa]

I would treat for liver fluke via the vet as the drug is not sold for horses. Horses do not often complete the flukes life cycle so eggs in droppings are not usually found to diagnose.

 

[chaps89]

Mine had a similar period of lethargy. She was also diagnosed with Lyme disease at the same time.
Steroids and legaphyton didn't make any difference, but we coincidentally moved yards and she perked up right away and the next set of bloods were good. No idea what was wrong at the previous yard but something didn't agree with her.
Not helpful if you have your own place though.

 

[Marigold4]

Sorry I can't offer any advice or experience, hopefully now you have a diagnosis you can begin treatment. It's horrible when our horses are ill but all we can do is our best. Testing your other horses may indicate if the cause is environmental.

Thanks for replying. My wonderful vet has been and taken bloods for the orher horses. She is driving the bloods to the lab and doing the test herself then will let me tonight - how's that for service!

 

[Marigold4]

I had this recently with mine and was advised to change hay and or grazing. I ended up doing both as I was moving yards anyway. For the re-test the enzymes had gone back to normal. I would recommend using a liver supplement and changing hay and then seeing what it is like in 4-6 weeks.

Thanks for replying. Vet thinks it's an infection and he's now on TRIMS. I need to talk to him about a liver supplement. Do you remember what you used please. Good to know they can go back to normal.

 

[Marigold4]

I don't remember our figures but we had issues ermm 4 years ago - photosensitivity in late october the only symptom. Horse had recently (about a month previous) moved back to my parents (but other horse ok) always had home made hay, nothing in either pasture, essentially drew a blank despite lots of researching other than maybe something that was old age/stress induced from the move.
Bloods improved somewhat over the following 6 months - maintained on milkthistle.
Didn't test after that, horse still alive at 28 and having been on daily bute for 2 years so v

It's frustrating when you can't pin down the cause, isn't it. I always buy different haylage from different places and different batches so if there's something wrong with it, they don't get too much, but I guess it only takes one toxic batch.

 

[Marigold4]

Mine had a similar period of lethargy. She was also diagnosed with Lyme disease at the same time.
Steroids and legaphyton didn't make any difference, but we coincidentally moved yards and she perked up right away and the next set of bloods were good. No idea what was wrong at the previous yard but something didn't agree with her.
Not helpful if you have your own place though.

Yes, it will be a real b****r if we have to move!

 

[blodwyn1]

I feed milk thistle.

 

[shortstuff99]

Thanks for replying. Vet thinks it's an infection and he's now on TRIMS. I need to talk to him about a liver supplement. Do you remember what you used please. Good to know they can go back to normal.

My younger horse had high enzymes and she had this https://clarendonequine.co.uk/product/nutra-pro-lv/

My others weren't so bad and so they had this supplement https://clarendonequine.co.uk/product/hepalyte-105/

I would try not worry too much, the liver has a great capacity to regenerate itself, but would be useful to try and work out what has caused it.

 

[Dexter]

Did they test CK? Raised AST and CK can equal PSSM, which can also cause raised liver enzymes. Worth bearing in mind in case no other cause is found.

 

[Marigold4]

So all 3 have come back with raised liver enzymes. The younger the horse, the higher the number. All 3 horses bright and not loosing weight. Vet says give antibiotics but if it's a toxin that is affecting all 3, perhaps steroids would be better? Any thoughts?

 

[Goldenstar]

Iron levels normal , not too high ?

 

[SEL]

I ended up feeding mycosorb. To start with we thought the raised liver enzymes in mine were due to a tie-up but then another horse was diagnosed. Took a year and a yard move to get them back to normal. I suspected hay but have since found there is a spring on that property which has caused issues with livestock - so worth checking water sources too.

If you can find and remove the source of the problem then time heals.

 

[Marigold4]

Iron levels normal , not too high ?

I will check this with vet. Thanks.

 

[Marigold4]

I ended up feeding mycosorb. To start with we thought the raised liver enzymes in mine were due to a tie-up but then another horse was diagnosed. Took a year and a yard move to get them back to normal. I suspected hay but have since found there is a spring on that property which has caused issues with livestock - so worth checking water sources too.

If you can find and remove the source of the problem then time heals.

Thanks. I will look into this. I am completely mystified as to cause. Water is mains water supply from our house. I'm going to investigate the haylage but it's wrapped Gelston or Marksway and I'd be surprised if there was a problem. All 3 on antibiotics now as vet suspects an infection. One also has a raised white cell count. They are all looking bright eyed and bushy-tailed though - so that's something!

 

[ester]

Do you have wet ground generally?

 

[Marigold4]

Do you have wet ground generally?

Thanks for replying. No, we are on chalk and my field is pretty dry, slightly sloping, never has water sitting on it and not poached. Vet thinks sheep fluke can be ruled out (if that is what you are thinking)as the ground is too dry round here and they don't get cases in this area.

The young companion pony has really high levels of liver enzymes. Ggt is over 500 and ast over 1000 plus raised white cell count.

 

[Marigold4]

My younger horse had high enzymes and she had this https://clarendonequine.co.uk/product/nutra-pro-lv/

My others weren't so bad and so they had this supplement https://clarendonequine.co.uk/product/hepalyte-105/

I would try not worry too much, the liver has a great capacity to regenerate itself, but would be useful to try and work out what has caused it.

Thank you for this. I've made a note of these and will ask the vet about it using them on Monday.

 

[Marigold4]

Did they test CK? Raised AST and CK can equal PSSM, which can also cause raised liver enzymes. Worth bearing in mind in case no other cause is found.

I will ask vet, though she did say other reading were normal. I had one horse tested for PSSM 1 as I was hoping to breed from her this year - test came back neg. won't be breeding from the mare now though.

 

[Marigold4]

I feed milk thistle.

Thanks. Vet has recommended this too and it's on its way.

 

[Marigold4]

Do you have wet ground generally?

Interestingly, I bought the young pony with the highest scores early December just before the second lockdown. I've looked at the local map for where her field was and the whole area is riddled with little streams and waterways. Reviewing a video the seller sent, you can hear the squishiness of the ground as the ponies trot round the field and I think I can see marshy patches. Field located near a place called Wool! So I guess we shouldn't be so quick to rule out sheep fluke!

 

[rabatsa]

Liver fluke is not just sheep fluke. Round here the rabbits suffer from it as well as deer and hares.

You do not have to be in a particularly wet area either, muddy gateways and hoof divets are all the habitat that the microscopic mud snail needs to survive, they go underground in the hot dry spells.

We got caught out at one place as it was sand land and had never had a fluke problem. It got flooded one winter when the beck was too high and that summer the RDA started getting problems with the ponies. It took two years and serious illness in many ponies before treating for fluke cured the problem.

 

[Marigold4]

That's really interesting. Thank you for posting it. Her bloods are going for further analysis of her white cells - I think that might tell us if it's a parasite cause. I'm going to ring Liverpool Parasitology Lab on Monday. Do you know how yours were tested please?

 

[Marigold4]

Liver fluke is not just sheep fluke. Round here the rabbits suffer from it as well as deer and hares.

You do not have to be in a particularly wet area either, muddy gateways and hoof divets are all the habitat that the microscopic mud snail needs to survive, they go underground in the hot dry spells.

We got caught out at one place as it was sand land and had never had a fluke problem. It got flooded one winter when the beck was too high and that summer the RDA started getting problems with the ponies. It took two years and serious illness in many ponies before treating for fluke cured the problem.

I've found a test kit at Westgate Labs and it's on its way.

 

[Michen]

I would NOT just worm for liver fluke without careful consideration with your vet. Mine, and another advised the one that works over here (aka isn’t resistant) is a really nasty drug and can have some serious side effects. Not something you want to do blindly.

Mine had a further test which was sent off somewhere, can’t remember what (antibody maybe?) which is more reliable for detecting liver fluke presence.

 

[Michen]

I've found a test kit at Westgate Labs and it's on its way.

Test kit is notoriously unreliable due to the way the eggs shed (I think, can’t remember exactly). Get some proper advise from your vet I would suggest, and discuss the better test.

 

[Marigold4]

I would NOT just worm for liver fluke without careful consideration with your vet. Mine, and another advised the one that works over here (aka isn’t resistant) is a really nasty drug and can have some serious side effects. Not something you want to do blindly.

Mine had a further test which was sent off somewhere, can’t remember what (antibody maybe?) which is more reliable for detecting liver fluke presence.

Don't worry - I wasn't about to administer prescribe only drugs to my precious horse without vet's advice!!! But thanks for the tip about unreliability of the test. I have already discussed liver fluke with my vet and she dismissed it because my field is dry. I'll have another word on Monday. Vet is very closely involved in this. I'm not a crazy person.