In light of the 'rugs' thread....

[MrVelvet]

My 3 yr old is naked and will remain that way this year (out through the day, in at night). Next year he will be backed and ridden away, I do not want to clip him so will use rugs earlyish to try and keep his winter coat to a minimum and to keep him clean and flat coated to make riding easier.

What are peoples opinions of this ?

 

[TigerTail]

Very unfair imo.

He will still grow a winter dense coat so will no doubt over heat as 99.9% over rug.

You also run the risk of him becoming very deficient in vitamin D, there are cases where this has been fatal when horses have been rugged early and kept in them for months and months.

Hes also going to be trussed up in a 'coat' for much longer than is actually necessary so more likely to develop rubs which can become infected sores, and a dandruffy/scurfy coat as its cannot breathe because he cant lift his hairs to keep himself cool.

I would hate to be forced to wear my coat all day every day for months on end - i dont know about the rest of you

 

[shadowboy]

Just out of interest why do you not wish to rug?

 

[tallyho!]

do what you want... ponies don't seem to die of rugs either way.

 

[dreamcometrue]

I think that is fine.

I do that with my Haflinger and Welsh D. Start with a lightweight rug in Sept/Oct then onto middleweight. They don't grow a thick coat so don't overheat.

 

[dreamcometrue]

Very unfair imo.

You also run the risk of him becoming very deficient in vitamin D, there are cases where this has been fatal when horses have been rugged early and kept in them for months and months.

Why would a horse in a rug become deficient in vitamin D?

 

[tallyho!]

Why would a horse in a rug become deficient in vitamin D?

They need light.... you know... like we do... and plants and stuff.

 

[MrVelvet]

Just out of interest why do you not wish to rug?

because he's too hairy right now

tigertail - Is riding him whilst he has a big thick coat fair? I never said I was going to keep him in? why would he be deficient in vit D? I also understand the importance of a bit naked scratchy time! I know lots of horses kept in this method and most seem to adapt and not grow a big thick coat Thanks for the input though.

 

[MrVelvet]

They need light.... you know... like we do... and plants and stuff.

I agree but we are clothed all year round and still survive!? The whole body doesn't need to be exposed surely ?

 

[tallyho!]

I agree but we are clothed all year round and still survive!? The whole body doesn't need to be exposed surely ?

I dunno... I think thats just it, we survive. I for one do not THRIVE in winter... I positively wilt and go blue.

 

[MrVelvet]

ve. I for one do not THRIVE in winter... I positively wilt and go blue.

me too!! lol But that is due to weather, cold and dark mornings rather than vitamin D

 

[9tails]

Why don't you clip and then rug accordingly?

 

[shadowboy]

Sorry I meant to say clip! Grrr mind on other things

 

[MrVelvet]

That is my other option. The first post is hypothetical really - I just wanted to see what people thought as the majority seem to have only two options 1)hairy and naked 2)clipped and rugged to the nines.

There are many reasons I would be against clipping mine. 1) there isn't really anywhere safe to do so 2) it's labour intensive 3) I don't want him naked completely as I like to let him have some naked time to roll and scratch without getting too chilly 4) with their natural coat they can 'climate control' better 5) slow hacking may still make them chilly without exercise sheets (see labour intesive reason!)

 

[Tinypony]

For some reason I've lost the ability to paste a link! If you Google why don't horses grow winter coats - you'll find an interesting scientific study that indicates that the rate of growth is related to hours of daylight rather than temperature. When my Arab is rugged I take it off and think "Oh, he's not grown much fur" then an hour later look at him again after he's fluffed up and realise he has, it was just flattened down.
I think horses acclimatise to being rugged, sometimes rugged more than they need to.

 

[Dizzydancer]

You do realise a horse grows a winter coat due to less daylight not due to temp?
Rugging only means the coat lies flat so looks thinner. The comp ponies which have to have a good coat until hoys either tend to not throw thick coats and are also kept in uv lit stables to trick them into not throwing a coat so early.
So I'm sorry but your idea will not actually work especially if your horse does grow a good coat.

 

[tallyho!]

me too!! lol But that is due to weather, cold and dark mornings rather than vitamin D

Cold dark days and no sunlight = no vit D.

It is proven scientifically in people with SAD. If you look on NICE Website you will see the algorithm for treating people with SAD is with Vit D3 supplements. Recently also, a study was published to say that dementia is also caused by a lack of vit d.

Not saying that rugging can eliminate ALL vit d... but it's main site of production is in the skin.... BUT furred/feather animals vit d is secreted into the oils of the skin (because skin itself is shaded by the fur & feathers) and animals get their vit d from grooming.. FACT! If you don't believe me... google it

 

[MissTyc]

Many horses are rugged in the UK so I doubt the OP needs to worry about one youngster dropping dead of vitamin D deficiency for doing what everyone else does anyway. Surely this is only a risk if horse rugged to the eyeballs 24/7 and kept away from natural light?

Aaaaanyway, OP I do what you are suggesting with my 4yos. I don't clip my 4yos as they are not in hard enough work. The only one I clip is the cob who has a blanket clip only because it suits her hog, etc, and she goes out a bit. Hogged horse with big coat looks a bit daft imo. The next year they get clipped.
And yes it works very well! And no one has had a diagnoses Vitamin D deficiency or symptoms of to date!

 

[canteron]

Cold dark days and no sunlight = no vit D.

It is proven scientifically in people with SAD. If you look on NICE Website you will see the algorithm for treating people with SAD is with Vit D3 supplements. Recently also, a study was published to say that dementia is also caused by a lack of vit d.

Not saying that rugging can eliminate ALL vit d... but it's main site of production is in the skin.... BUT furred/feather animals vit d is secreted into the oils of the skin (because skin itself is shaded by the fur & feathers) and animals get their vit d from grooming.. FACT! If you don't believe me... google it

Wow Tallyhoo, all those Stabled Horses must have Ricketts then?

 

[Inchy]

From my native boys you can definatly tell its light rather than rugs that control coat growth - what ever the rugs or however hot it is, once we get to august and the days start to shorten we have full winter coats!

The youngsters have a small bib clip, to keep them tidy, and reduce sweating round the girth area - they are then rugged according to temperature - I'll change them daily if need be. So they're kept clean and dry enough to ride.

The 'grown up' horses all in a reasonable level of work are clipped out apart from legs and rugged up.

Never had a problem with lack of vit d - they get an hour naked when ridden, and their heads aren't rugged!

 

[Cortez]

Only clipped horses "need" rugs, nature has provided wonderful winter overcoats free of charge! People rug for many reasons, mostly anthropomorphic ones, but we do it to keep the buggers CLEAN!

 

[flyingfeet]

Good lord there's some twaddle on here!!

Horses with sweet itch (I had one) rugged permenantly from aged 3 is still alive and well !! I can confirm he hasn't developed ricketts from lack of vitamin D, or developed SAD

Coat is controlled by both sunlight and heat - if you rug up you do indeed get a thinner coat and can reduce the amount of clipping required. Again sweet itch horse, always over rugged (all year) so he could cope with having to wear a baby grow in 30oC plus. His winter coat was always thinner than the others - however I did have to use under rugs and 400g rugs to achieve this. He also rarely sweated under the rugs to acclimatise them. (He was fully clipped and BSJA'ing during winter)

Bear in mind before altlanta and Hong kong horses were over rugged to get them used to the heat.

Anyway that aside for a 4 year old I'd clip, as its good training and if you work them hard you will end up with a sweaty mess if you leave the winter coat on. With a youngster you have to make sure you always finish on a good note, and this may well involve sweat!

 

[monkeybum13]

Anyway that aside for a 4 year old I'd clip, as its good training and if you work them hard you will end up with a sweaty mess if you leave the winter coat on. With a youngster you have to make sure you always finish on a good note, and this may well involve sweat!

This

 

[tallyho!]

Wow Tallyhoo, all those Stabled Horses must have Ricketts then?

yes probably!!!

 

[tallyho!]

Many horses are rugged in the UK so I doubt the OP needs to worry about one youngster dropping dead of vitamin D deficiency for doing what everyone else does anyway. Surely this is only a risk if horse rugged to the eyeballs 24/7 and kept away from natural light?

Aaaaanyway, OP I do what you are suggesting with my 4yos. I don't clip my 4yos as they are not in hard enough work. The only one I clip is the cob who has a blanket clip only because it suits her hog, etc, and she goes out a bit. Hogged horse with big coat looks a bit daft imo. The next year they get clipped.
And yes it works very well! And no one has had a diagnoses Vitamin D deficiency or symptoms of to date!

Oh fgs, I'm only having a laugh. get over yourselves.

 

[Tinypony]

Here's the link about growing winter coats and light. http://equineink.com/2008/10/29/blanketing-doesnt-keep-horses-from-growing-winter-coats/

No mention of ricketts.

 

[tallyho!]

I never even said the word RICKETTS!

 

[touchstone]

There are other sources of vit D though, apparently eating leaves in Autumn is a good source and many feeds have additional vits added. Cod liver oil used to be a good source of vit d in the winter, although not many folks use it now.

I think a lot depends on the coat that the individual horse grows, a fine coated type may benefit from being unclipped and rugged whereas others would need to be clipped and rugged.

 

[MrVelvet]

Good lord there's some twaddle on here!!

Horses with sweet itch (I had one) rugged permenantly from aged 3 is still alive and well !! I can confirm he hasn't developed ricketts from lack of vitamin D, or developed SAD

Coat is controlled by both sunlight and heat - if you rug up you do indeed get a thinner coat and can reduce the amount of clipping required.

Bear in mind before altlanta and Hong kong horses were over rugged to get them used to the heat.

Anyway that aside for a 4 year old I'd clip, as its good training and if you work them hard you will end up with a sweaty mess if you leave the winter coat on. With a youngster you have to make sure you always finish on a good note, and this may well involve sweat!

THANKYOU!!!

Yes I do agree with you on the last bit but his first year will just be about playing around and enjoying himself! Not enough work to warrant clipping really, when he's 5 and out and about he will be done

 

[EllenJay]

My lad - as always is unclipped and rugged, and is very healthy and happy. I don't clip as he doesn't do much work, therefore doesn't need clipping, but is out in all weathers and gets cold. He is not overrugged, doesn't suffer from Vit d deficiency.