In serious need of some advice re the little grey mare.

Girlracer

Girlracer

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Well those of you that remember Sapphire?

I've come into a few problems and have NO IDEA where to go next.

Basically i accepted a job in Oxford about 7 weeks ago, i was only able to bring one horse with me and for obvious reasons i brought Major (he is my baby after all!). Before i came to Oxford i had to sell Sapphire, i found a lovely home and agreed to let her go on a months trial to them. However the trial would end after i'd moved, it was a big risk but i thought they were perfectly suited.

However for reasons i'm still un-sure of they decided not to have her, so that was the first problem.

After much panicking my friend agreed to have her to sell (she's very experienced), and i thought great she's in good hands and can find a nice home. However it didn't end there....

She was going great, showjumping, xc schooling and even going hunting and behaving herself! Then she choked twice in a week, the second time being very seriously and the vet having to flush everything out. She was then scoped to check for damage/cause and was found to have small legions (scar tissue) in her throat which is the cause for the choking. There is however a small chance they might be cancerous, but they haven't gotten worse so the general idea is there not. It is manageable with soaked hay in a small net and wet feed, is obviously fine on grass. SO at this point i now have a huge vet and livery bill for a horse i'm not even riding. But no matter because friend has viewings lined up and that should cover those costs with a little on top.

But tonight i've gotten a phone call to say she won't sell her on behalf of me as she has now started rearing under pressure. *pulls hair out*

She hacks alone, in company, show jumps, xc schools and been autumn hunting behaving herself very well. However she says put under pressure in the school (i.e. asked to carry herself, come on the bit what ever you want to call it). She says she went up and over twice :confused:

She never showed any signs of anything like this when i had her, but maybe i didn't ask as much of her? Obviously i can't sell her on like that, but equally financially and time wise keeping her is going to be really hard for me. What the hell do i do? I asked could it be pain related but she said no... i'm not so sure, but without bringing her here and paying off the livery bills etc i'm not going to find out.

HELP!!! :(:(
 
Could it be that the ridden pressure you talk of, which would mean the making her flex her neck,which could be making her feel that she's choking or pressure on the scar tissue in her throat????
 
I am very sorry to hear your stroy and you are not in a nice situation.
However I think the rearing is pain related, firstly you must of put pressure on her at some point and she never reared, if it was something she always did you would of seen signs.
Also she is rearing and going right over. A horse can kill itself doing that so it is not being naughty etc, it must be in a lot of pain/fear.
I would get her back checked, but also I would be worried about the lumps.
Greys are more prone to cancer and maybe it is internal and the small lumps are the cancer speading. I really really hope I am wrong, though I do foresee big vet bills ahead :(
xx
 
Any way you could get her to yours or at least go and see and ride her, very difficult situation, perhaps swap the horses around for a week?? On the selling front if it does appear to be a proplem schooling then sell her as a hunter and just a hunter if you think that she will cope with it. Very difficult situation! Feel for you.
 
How much do you trust your friend?

Is there a chance she is not riding the horse well and has caused her to react badly?

I don't see how she can guarantee its not pain related.

I think if I was you I would get her checked over by a vet to rule out pain as a cause, and see how her saddle fits. And then I would get an experienced professional to sit on her - explain the situation, and see what happens and what they say.

Its not an easy situation. I think all you can do is get a second opinion and take it from there.

If it turns out she is dangerous and you don't have the time or money to try and work through it, your best bet may be PTS.
 
xspiralx said:
How much do you trust your friend?

Is there a chance she is not riding the horse well and has caused her to react badly?

I don't see how she can guarantee its not pain related.

I think if I was you I would get her checked over by a vet to rule out pain as a cause, and see how her saddle fits. And then I would get an experienced professional to sit on her - explain the situation, and see what happens and what they say.

Its not an easy situation. I think all you can do is get a second opinion and take it from there.

If it turns out she is dangerous and you don't have the time or money to try and work through it, your best bet may be PTS.
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She is herself a 'professional' hence not wanting to ruin her reputation.

She can be very ifaskedhorsemustdo attitude, but i'm worried with the lumps really whether that's the reason. Unless i just get her near me on grass livery and if i have time to work her then do and if not don't and just not worry about it?

God knows!
 
Presumably when show jumping, xc, hunting etc, the mare is allowed to have her head in any position she wants?

As soon as she is asked to work in a outline, then the problems start.

I wonder, could it be how she is being asked (ie, with a backward working hand) that is making her rear, and not the coming softly onto the bit in a natural way whilst allowing her free forward movement?

Perhaps you could ask the advice of a Centered Riding Instructor or a Classical Trainer?
 
Housemouse said:
Presumably when show jumping, xc, hunting etc, the mare is allowed to have her head in any position she wants?

As soon as she is asked to work in a outline, then the problems start.

I wonder, could it be how she is being asked (ie, with a backward working hand) that is making her rear, and not the coming softly onto the bit in a natural way whilst allowing her free forward movement?

Perhaps you could ask the advice of a Centered Riding Instructor or a Classical Trainer?
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Well that would be all well and good if it was me riding her!

That's exactly when the problem starts, and i would put money on her being heavy handed. HOWEVER no horse should go up and over just because jockey is heavy handed. But as i say she never did it with me...
 
Girlracer said:
Then she choked twice in a week, the second time being very seriously and the vet having to flush everything out. She was then scoped to check for damage/cause and was found to have small legions (scar tissue) in her throat which is the cause for the choking. There is however a small chance they might be cancerous, but they haven't gotten worse so the general idea is there not. It is manageable with soaked hay in a small net and wet feed, is obviously fine on grass. SO at this point i now have a huge vet and livery bill for a horse i'm not even riding. But no matter because friend has viewings lined up and that should cover those costs with a little on top.

But tonight i've gotten a phone call to say she won't sell her on behalf of me as she has now started rearing under pressure. *pulls hair out*
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Sorry but I am **horrified** you are trying to sell this pony - take responsibility she is yours. The fact that she has an undiagnosed potentially terminal health issue is bad enough before you add in the rearing factor which is more than likely connected. I am not surprised your professional friend does not want this sale on her reputation. I understand your personal circumstances may make this an awkward situation but it is your situation to deal with. How long have the growths been monitored to ascertain they are not getting any worse? Can you with all conscious say you are selling a healthy pony - if not do the right thing by the pony.
 
What a pickle. I dont think you could really sell her atm without some monitoring of whats going on. I think it sounds like the growths could be affecting her when shes being asked to go properly. Have you spoken to the vet and asked if that could be the case? As Im guessing you werent there when s/he was.

I wouldnt be prepared to sell a horse on that might have something sinister going on without knowing a bit more about it. Is she insured? Can you investigate further?

Could you not ask your employer if you could have her there with you and pay for her to be there out at grass or on DIY livery in your own time? Is there room? Or I guess grass or DIY livery somewhere local? Its not ideal but it doesnt sound like you have much choice.

Then at least you can assess her yourself which will at least set your mind a bit more at rest as of what is the next step with her.
 
idx said:
Sorry but I am **horrified** you are trying to sell this pony - take responsibility she is yours. The fact that she has an undiagnosed potentially terminal health issue is bad enough before you add in the rearing factor which is more than likely connected. I am not surprised your professional friend does not want this sale on her reputation. I understand your personal circumstances may make this an awkward situation but it is your situation to deal with. How long have the growths been monitored to ascertain they are not getting any worse? Can you with all conscious say you are selling a healthy pony - if not do the right thing by the pony.
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Well you sound well and truly sanctemonious, I think the OP is trying to find out the problems that this mare has before she makes her next move. Its also a HORSE for gods sake! Stop being so "horrified" and read all the facts.
 
lionman said:
Well you sound well and truly sanctemonious, I think the OP is trying to find out the problems that this mare has before she makes her next move. Its also a HORSE for gods sake! Stop being so "horrified" and read all the facts.
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Apologies for being sanctemonious - I'll not try to justify myself or else I will sound more sanctemonious :D.
 
So this scar tissue was diagnosed, and shortly afterwards she's started to go up when asked to work in a way that, until she doesn't resist, will make her slightly tighter through the throat where the scar tissue was found...

I'd be getting your friend to phone the vets asap to find out if this could be the case, and then pushing very hard to see if the cells are cancerous before deciding on selling her...
 
I would bring the horse up to oyou, be it on DIY or grass, whatever. Your friend sounds like she is putting her under too much pressue, if the horse is normally well behaved and it is obviously not conducive to selling. Re: physical issues, I think you'll be better able to assess when you get your horse up under your own eyes.
 
Girlracer said:
Then she choked twice in a week, the second time being very seriously and the vet having to flush everything out. She was then scoped to check for damage/cause and was found to have small legions (scar tissue) in her throat which is the cause for the choking. There is however a small chance they might be cancerous, but they haven't gotten worse so the general idea is there not. It is manageable with soaked hay in a small net and wet feed, is obviously fine on grass. SO at this point i now have a huge vet and livery bill for a horse i'm not even riding.
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Bearing this in mind, would you disclose this to potential buyers?

Why don't you see if you can find her a long-term loan home, to people who would be fully informed of her medical history and the possibility that she has cancerous growths in her throat? There is always the possibility it could get worse and they might return her, but she's your pony and at least you could be sure that you did the right thing for her.
 
The potential buyers (not through advertising) knew of the problem yes. I've already said i can't sell her on at the moment.

When i had her i noticed on a couple of occasions a very mild choke, but genuinely thought nothing of it. So she's had it the whole time i think. The vets said they shouldn't be at all restrictive i've already covered that.

I think some people need to be slightly less critical and put themselves in my shoes, i'm trying my hardest to do the best for her despite being told to simply send her to auction and get rid.

I'm going to ride her on Sunday so that should give me a better idea of what's happening.
 
What a shame. She is such a lovely looking mare and showed such promise. I remember the post of her first coming to you and thinking 'cor, what a looker'

If at all possible I'd try and sort out having her to you for a few months and see what she is like with your riding. If the vet doesn't think the lesions are restrictive and you suspect she has possibly always had them then I think something else is probably going on but the only way to find that out is to have her with you. Any chance your boss would do you grass livery for her? How difficult/easy is it to have the lesions biopsied for cancerous cells? If it isn't too horrific for her then it might be worth doing as it will put your mind at rest and clarify your options

If they aren't then you can ride her for a few months and get her going and sell her on without too much bother, just let people know she suffers from choke if not fed soaked hay. If they are cancerous then you would have to consider carefully but if you can't keep two then PTS sleep might be the most viable option, or a long term loan with the understanding that as it progresses and makes life hard for her you may have to make a tough decision.

Hope that helps. What an absolutely rubbish situation to find yourself in though.
 
i think the only thing you can do is try and get her over to you for a while so that you can assess her yourself, so hard to make any decision based on 2nd hand information even if it is from someone you trust.
 
Is there no way you can find grass livery near you or does your boss have a spare field you can put her in for now? Is she insured? If she is insured i'd get a biopsy done to see if they are cancerous or not, then you know where you stand a bit better. Can the lesions ever be removed? You need to get that sorted and then you will know if to PTS, loan or sell. The rearing could just be that shes been pushed too quickly as when you had her and were taking it slowly she never did anything?!
Shes a gorgeous little thing and its sad for her, she deserves more than this but I feel for you too as you didnt mean this situation to happen :(.
 
If she was mine, I would fine grass livery somewhere and chuck her out for the winter.

Then bring her in next spring and re-scope to check the lumps/scar tissue and see whether is has worsened or not.

If not, bring her back into work and sell, if it is worse, you may have to make another decision.
 
I have the number for grass livery locally, it will be hard but i've no choice. We just don't have the space here really.

She isn't insured, the legions can't be removed but can be autopsied, i think i'll have to bite the bullet. To be fair i'm earning more than before and not paying anything for Majors keep (except shoes, dentist etc) so that saving can go toward getting this sorted. I don't see why a horse would suddenly start rearing for no reason?
 
Poor pony! It sounds like she has been through a lot in a short period of time. Could you turn her away for a month or two? That way you would be able to let her recover physically and mentally and be able to tell if the rearing was a naughty thing or something she is doing because of pain.
 
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