In showing is it stupid

carthorse

carthorse

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that a horse must be the biggest in the class. I don't mean that literally but if they are much smaller than the max height for that class I am told they have no chance .Is that so , Surely a good horse is a 'good horse' no matter what size.
I really am interested in this as it seems very unfair if true
 
not true at all........i have a little cob who is 14hh at a push...last year we did alot of inhand stuff, up against proper height cobs, and we did really, really well....
 
Carthorse hope all is well with C, heard her bad news the other day from your post.

Advice stay clear of showing, especially at the top end. It is a case of who you know not how your horse goes, confirmation, good breed type!
When I did county showing in a class of 56 in a major championship class, my horse came above the bit as I asked for a downward transition, I thought well at this level thats enough to put him out of the running !
Then a certain person on a stallion went out to do their show, there horse took off bolted across the diagional (Should have been a trot) and then continued at the gallop along the long side of the show ring !!!! (I sat there having a little titter thinking well mine didn't go well, but it was better than that !!)
Places were given to 10th place, now we are talking about every horse in the class had qualified to be there ! To my amazement the galloping gormet came 8th in the class !!!
I was that disguisted, not that I should have been place because I shouldn't of, but my god neither should he !! I late found out that his boyfriend was the actual class sponsor.
Save your money heartache and time, stick to eventing, showjumping and dressage !!
Anyway will see you at Windsor hopefully in May.
 
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Advice stay clear of showing, especially at the top end. It is a case of who you know not how your horse goes, confirmation, good breed type!


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Sorry I disagree completely, I am a nobody in the showing world, but have had alot of success at county level, beating a few very well known horses in the process. Similarly an amatuer friend of mine came third at HOYS on her first attempt a few years back!

I have never had any probs with not being up to height but think it depends entirely on ringcraft. If you have a smaller horse give it room to shine rather than going round squashed between two bigger horses!
 
Totally agree Zizz. If you have a smaller horse, you just need to find their best bits and work on them. Its like if your horse has an extravegent trot, give yourself plenty of room on the change of rein and really let it strut across to catch the judges eye. Also a good gallop will work wonders aslong as your horse pulls up at the end of the straight. But because you are one of the smallest people will try to over ride you

However i also know how you feel carthorse. It is a bit dishearting (not really the word i was looking for but you get the drift) if you are one of the smallest. I used to ride a 15.2 small hunter and look down the line up to see i was the smallest one there even though i was on the upper height limit
 
There is definitely more than an element of truth in this and it is grossly unfair. My mum breeds SPs and SHPs and it is heartbreaking to have a perfect example of a SP who is 13.3hh as it will not stand a chance in among 14.2hhs. I can understand it where a height division also involves a different 'type' of animal. E.g. a 12hh lead rein pony is a completely different animal to a 12.2 S.P. so I would not expect an overheight lead rein to succeed in a 12.2 class.

There is saying that 'a good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un' - however a crap big 'un should never beat a good little 'un in my opinion.

Also agree with the poster who said that their bang up 15.2 small looked tiny in the ring - I to have experienced this.

I currently have a sec C cob away being broken and produced and she is well up to height and I am concerned she may be over. If she is over height then was reregistered as a D she would stand no chance in the ring because of her height even though she is beautifully put together and moves like a dream! It's so frustrating!
 
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Carthorse hope all is well with C, heard her bad news the other day from your post.

Advice stay clear of showing, especially at the top end. It is a case of who you know not how your horse goes, confirmation, good breed type!
When I did county showing in a class of 56 in a major championship class, my horse came above the bit as I asked for a downward transition, I thought well at this level thats enough to put him out of the running !
Then a certain person on a stallion went out to do their show, there horse took off bolted across the diagional (Should have been a trot) and then continued at the gallop along the long side of the show ring !!!! (I sat there having a little titter thinking well mine didn't go well, but it was better than that !!)
Places were given to 10th place, now we are talking about every horse in the class had qualified to be there ! To my amazement the galloping gormet came 8th in the class !!!
I was that disguisted, not that I should have been place because I shouldn't of, but my god neither should he !! I late found out that his boyfriend was the actual class sponsor.
Save your money heartache and time, stick to eventing, showjumping and dressage !!
Anyway will see you at Windsor hopefully in May.

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Whilst judges continue to ignore the rule books of their own societies, & ignore manners in favour of quality this will be the perceived image of showing. Time & time again (especially in cob classes where the rule book states that manners are of paramount importance) we see well mannered true to type animals ignored in favour of those who while are infinitely more beautiful are naughty. I've seen a top class cob take a major championship even though it went on the wrong leg. The same cob was reserve the following year when it napped so badly we wondered if the show was meant to include a poor attempt at a half pass. I've seen a judge unable to stop a horse while riding it (county show) - it still won. These are not isolated inccidents -I could go on & on & on. We learnt very early on that a misdeameanour by a quality horse didn't mean demotion down the line for it, or a promotion of a place or so up the line for our well mannered but non quality horse.
There are of course many worthy winners who are both beautiful & mannerly. It is only right that these horses stand at the top of the line up, & they are a joy behold.
For most of us the joy is in the satisfaction of presenting a well mannered, well produced horse. The rare occassions when that is rewarded makes it all worthwhile.
 
I have seen suprising results county level where a small exhibit has beaten larger ones in a class (particularly thinking of open workers where several times I have seen a 15.2 take the title over the 17.2s. However, those little horses were full of power and presence. so perhpas they need extra 'x factor' to be noticed?

I have a 4yo shp type who I am now a little concerned is 'in between heights' so to speak. Just hoping that he wil have enough presence next year to beat the big boys!
 
A good horse is a good horse but a good big one will nearly always beat a good little one.
I did years of showing and often people are blind to the faults of their horses. The reasons pros do so well is they have the best of a type and they know how to show them off.
 
Thank you all. We haven't done any but may do one this year, have no idea which class as I don't know the finer points of lightweight hunter/ riding horse etc. I was just under the impression that they need to be full up size for the class. Probably because I used to know someone with workers and if they went over height it was very bad as they had no chance in the next height but maybe they were wrong.
I will try to do some measuring and take some pics and see what people think
 
Penfold would make a nice working hunter if he is as chunky as he looks in some of the photos. He moves nicely and jumps well. Would he cope with being ridden by a male judge?
 
Interestingly, some years ago I had a 15.3hh horse who I put in a small Hunter class (15.2hh and under!) Believe it or not I was the smallest in the class!
The judge actually commented to me "the horse has great conformation, went well both in his show and for the judge--he's just a bit too small!!!!
This was at a county show.
I just thanked him and when I came out of the ring my OH and I just laughed.
Another time we had a welsh sec A mare who was always placed highly in hand at county level. We went to a local show and we were last!!
That's the joys of showing.
 
Quick Reply
Hunters (apart from small hunters) do not need to be any specific height. The HOYS Supreme Champion last season is one of the smallest LW hunters on the circuit.

THe winning HOYS LW cob last season is nowhere near the largest in his class.
My coloured was 154.5 last year so not up to full height. He also won HOYS and was highly placed all year in cob classes.

The hunters are difficult to break into if you are an amateur. Having said that, an amatuer won the HOYS hw class last season.

Cobs are slightly easier and there are many amatuer riders on cobs who do well and beat the professionals on a regular basis.

Small riding horses, small hacks and large hacks also need to be measured. least season it was definitely NOT the biggest horses that won all the classes.

Ponies and M&Ms are a different kettle of fish - no idea what goes on there!

When you include conformation in the marks, they can be the deciding factor on who wins. So often spectators (and indeed, other competitors) forget that showing is not a dressage test and the conformation mark is usually 40-50% of the overall score.

If you want to be marked purely on performance, then perhaps dressage is the route to go!
 
I think there is more of a height bias in ponies, like minesadouble said. I rode a 13.1 who was more a SHP than SP, but that meant him going against 14hhs. We were always top fo the line in a mixed height class as the judge presumed he was a 13hh! It's a shame that height was seemingly so important, a lot of good ponies get overlooked if they go over height (eg small in the next height bracket). I also think it pushes SHP to SP and vica versa as the height brackets differ (13hh, 14hh etc and 12.2, 13.2 etc respectively).
 
i thought that a SHP has more bone than a SP (which looks like spider legs) and had nothing to do with height
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Height may just mean you stand out a bit more, although i think the average height as a "standard" for a hunter is over 16hh, as you often get tall judges
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unless it is a small hunter of course
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I think it is with the ponies that this issue is seen alot more. The SHP and the SP often see this. Also I think the judging goes through fashions and definatley the last few seasons had seen the full up ponies doing better. Then having said that there were a few ponies last year doing the county circuit as a SHP and a SP so god help us. (having the producer in the ring stripping maybe helps a little).

xxx
 
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i thought that a SHP has more bone than a SP (which looks like spider legs) and had nothing to do with height
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SHow ponies are 12.2, 13,2, 14,2 and shp are 12, 13, 14hh
They are two different types, however a chunky sp could get away with being a finer boned shp. That's the way it works. And if you have a pony that is 13hh and it is one of these half way ponies, then you would be better generally doing shp rather than sp.

With these half way types, they are probably not typey enough to win a major competition, but with showing, who knows!

It is the same with hack and small riding horse; small riding horse, LW cob and small hunter; large riding horse and LW hunter. It can be a fine line to choose what type your horse is and the height can influence the decision.
Check out the descriptions on here
www.theshowring.info
 
I show my HW cob @ County level and I have seen some pretty poor judging or should I say predictable judging based on who was on the horse rather than the horse. That said there has also been some very good judging (in my opinion). Showing is very much a matter of one or two people's opinions and everyone likes different things. I don't mind where I am in the line up so long as my horse has been a good boy and we have had a good day (i try not to take it too seriously!)
Regarding height, this is quite a hot topic and in my opinion the JMB measuring system is a joke! My cob came with his Life height cert at 155 (max for a cob) and I have no idea how he ever measured in. It was obviously a very clever person who presented him for measurement and a kind vet!! Hopefully with the introduction of Maxi cob classes at RIHS and associated increase in Maxi classes at County shows the desire to get measured in at 155 will decrease making the measurings more accurate!
 
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