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MrsMozart said:
Thanks.

I have decided to treat all, um, supercilious comments with the contempt they deserve :D

So :p
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Supercilious? Not really love, just not the comments you wanted!!Big difference m'dear.

I think if you actually READ what I said you'd see that I was sympathising(which I presume are the types of replies you were after) but I was also questioning the wisdom of leaving him until september. That was all.*shrug*
 
NinjaPony said:
Maesfen- Do you really think that this is the place to start making comments like that? Who do you think you are? If you want to have a debate, then fine. Go ahead and make a thread. But don't you dare make comments like that on a thead like this.
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Oh man that's funny.

Thanks, I needed a giggle this morning:p:rolleyes:
 
sleepingdragon10 said:
Supercilious? Not really love, just not the comments you wanted!!Big difference m'dear.

I think if you actually READ what I said you'd see that I was sympathising(which I presume are the types of replies you were after) but I was also questioning the wisdom of leaving him until september. That was all.*shrug*
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And if you had read what I had written, you would understand that he's not in pain at the moment. He does not have laminitis at the moment. We manage the hard ground issue as it is and any cold-ish days/nights with Bute. He is happy, the vet is happy, and I am happy that he is okay at the moment.

However, come the winter, with the cold seeping into his bones, he will not be happy, so I'm not going to let that happen. He will be gone before then.

As to 'September', I said "before... September", so I am not waiting until September" I am waiting until it is right for him.

It would make out lives easier in a way if he weren't here. I have four horses at two different yards, to meet their different needs (theirs, not ours). If he were no longer with us, I could move them all to the same one. But, I won't move him to a new large herd now; he's not the most social of animals and would be on the periphery. My vet has advised against it and knowing a few of the horses in there I know he would be bullied, so he's not going. I would move the other horses to the boys' yard, but one of them bullies him, so that's not happening either. Whilst both cars have been in the garage, D has cycled a pretty gruelling twelve mile round trip (with a poo picking session in the middle), just to look after and keep an eye on this lad?

How do I get it across to you certain people that he is fine as he is for now?

How do I get it across to you that he will go when he is ready to go? It might be August 31st, it might be next week, but whenever it is, it will be when he's ready.

If he doesn't show that he's ready to go before autumn comes, then I'll make the decision for him. I know what he will be like stood in the cold, and I'm not having it. I know what he's like if he's not rugged up to the eyeballs when it rains all day (divers like a jelly on speed). I will choose the time and day and he will go before he has to face any of it.

Now, has that got it across to you?

If it hasn't, quite frankly, I don't care. You're not the one looking after him. You're not the one who knows him, loves him, cares for him, stuck up for him.

I'm the one who has seen what he went through last winter, I'm the one who has made the decision to let him go, I'm the one who has broken it to those that love him and held them while they cried, I'm the one who will arrange it all and oversee it all, I'm the one who will be forever asking myself if I could have found another way of dealing with it.

I'm no saint, I just care deeply about those in my care and I want the very best for them.

Clear now?
 
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I am one for keeping horses alive until they really have had enough. It sounds like you are making the kindest and bravest decision for LL. I really feel for you.
 
sleepingdragon10 said:
Sorry Mrs M, you're not going to like it, but I wholeheartedly agree with the above sentiment. It sounds like LL has so much against him, and whilst I don't doubt your devotion to him, I'm wondering if the prospect of having him PTS is just so painful that you're putting it off rather than doing it now before his symptoms/pain get any worse.

I can't imagine what you're feeling, I know if I had to face the prospect of losing Lukey I'd be in bits, but even so I'd still make the decision sooner rather than later.
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I wish people would leave others who know and love the animal concerned to make their own informed decisions. If you and others baying for the horse to be PTS right now, read th OP properly, you would realise that the pony can cope in summer but another winter would be too hard. So the OP is going to give him his last summer. Sheesh.
 
sleepingdragon10 said:
Supercilious? Not really love, just not the comments you wanted!!Big difference m'dear.

I think if you actually READ what I said you'd see that I was sympathising(which I presume are the types of replies you were after) but I was also questioning the wisdom of leaving him until september. That was all.*shrug*
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And again, if you had read what I had written, you would see that it's aimed at the 'eventually' comment, not at yours.

Let me think, the title of my thread and the opening line or two might just have led you to believe that I was (and still am) upset about having to make this decision. But no matter how upset it makes me and those who love this wee lad, I (we) will do what is right for him and when it is right for him!
 
Thank you to those that understand and who have put it in better words than I have obviously been able to manage. Henry Horn, no idea how you go through this so often - it will be my third time and it still hurts as much as the first time. Wagtail, succinctly put, thank you.

Many others ot thanks, but on the iPad and it's hard to navigate, sorry :(


I have decided that I wont put a post up when it does happen. Really can't face all this cr*p on top of what will be a pants time anyway.
 
Its a very hard decision to make for an anmal you love, we had to make it last year for our dog. You will know when LL's ready, you already considering it. As you say he is okay at the moment, and remember you care for him in real life, you will base your decision on that, not on whats written on a forum!!
 
MrsM there are varying degrees of how we feel if I'm honest, the livery horses have a place in your affections but it itsn't the same as in your case an adored horse.
For us the most painful times are when it's a 4 year old full of promise who has perhaps been injured, then it's heartbreaking for all of us. Or a foal born perfect that gets joint ill.
Last year I brought my retired gelding in (he was 22) to have his teeth done as he'd lost weight. I was shocked when the vet announced the majority of them had fallen out and he was unable to eat properly anymore. He was pts at once, and that was a horrible shock, he'd been my horse of a lifetime and I had no time to prepare. Plus there was the guilt of how long had he been suffering toothache to live with..
I can hold the livery horses with barely a tear but that's because I know I am doing the right thing for them, my own are much harder.
It is a fact however with 40 plus horses around facing death is much more likely than a single horse owner, so it does become easier..
 
sleepingdragon10 said:
Oh man that's funny.

Thanks, I needed a giggle this morning:p:rolleyes:
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The comment wasn't even directed at you, but your response has just proven that you are not worth bothering with. I really wish people would THINK, before they started typing.
I also don't get why people off a forum think they know the OP's horse better than she does?!
I have every faith she will do the right thing for the horse she loves.
 
Mrs M
You don't need to justify yourself to anyone. As probably the most popular member on this forum, you know we are all with you. Why people feel the need to make a decision for you or to question your judgement I have no idea. There are too many people on this forum who's answer to every question is to have the horse PTS. That may be the final option for some people but there are those amongst us who don't just see the horse as commodity, there are those who will try anything to help cure/assist the horse to give it a quality of life, and you are one of those people. You know what the outcome is going to be, but you are doing everything to give LL a nice quality of life until the time comes. And if you have to give him 3 or 4 bute a day, then so what? It's no business of anyone else.

I take anti-inflammatories every day of my life - high strength prescription ones, but I'm not ready to die yet. Those who think it's a crime to give a horse bute to keep it out of pain are not horse lovers. It's a crime not to offer pain relief in my opinion. Some conditions which may be debilitating, but are not life-threatening, and bute can help significantly in those cases.
My thoughts are with you Mrs M
 
BB - is it not possible that the pony has deteriorated over the past few months? I only ask that because 12 months ago I had a perfectly sound 8 year old mare. She now has arthritis in her fetlock and bone spavin in her hock in the same leg, and it's started all over the period of the last few months....
 
bakedbean said:
You, young lady, are being extremely rude.

I actually KNOW this pony very very well.

And i've kept quiet untill now....BUT..

IMHO there isn't anything untoward about this pony.
I believe the OP's Vet is a complete idiot...and is greatful for the money that is gleaned on a regular basis.
i have offered to have this pony back again from the OP...this offer has been declined...for reasons best known to the OP.
i can honestly say that this pony IMO is a "victim" of a subservient vet..and a complient owner..
i'm absolutely gobsmacked that a perfectly healthy, albeit arthritic (maybe?), lively, well intergrated, socialised pony, who would come in overnight/stand in during the day, (as he was here)..not 8 months ago has degenerated so badly that he's needs to be PTS before the next winter?
Sorry OP....but i think you are wrong..(the advice you are taking is also wrong)...this pony is, AFAIC a normal mid teens pony..
yes, i'm known to be upfront..(you have supported me numerous times) and i am being so, on open as obviously my pm's have been brushed aside.

This pony does not need to be PTS..He needs to be treated as a normal pony...as he was here..let him be a pony..please leave the Psychology to others..
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I do not know this pony at all, but have just been shocked by some of the callous replys on here. I don't think my comment was paticularly rude, no ruder than the one I responded to, which caused me to make that comment.
I also don't think this is the place to air your dirty laundry. If I was the OP I would be extremely hurt you have decided to say all this in public and not say give her a phone call.
Sorry if I have upset anyone, that was not my intention. But I really am shocked by some peoples attitudes on here. Tact never hurt anyone, paticularly on a thread like this.
I also have an arthritic pony, so don't think I don't know what its like.
I do not know either of you, so would not like to judge, which is what people seem to be doing.
 
Sorry Ninjapony, but you have been very rude to some people on here. We all give our honest opinions, MrsM has seen fit to disregard some of them that is her choice, not very one is going to sweetness and light in their replies and that is what is good about this forum.
 
If I have been rude- then I am sorry. I guess I just got a bit carried away, as it is an emotive issue. I am big enough to say sorry, but I do feel that some of my points still stand.
 
And Ninjapony, join the clan, as we all have points and get emotive and get a slap on the wrist from TFC now and then.But just because somebody says something you don't like doesn't make them a bad person. And several of us on here have had to have their beloved horses and ponies put down, through illness,old age and it hasn't been easy for them either.
 
bakedbean said:
possibly..but this pony was supposedly, on veterinary advice a chronic laminitic..it wasnt the case whilst he was in my care
the pony was, supposedly on veterinary advice not alowed to eat certain fodder..it wasnt the case whilst he was in my care
he was borderline sweetich..not whilst he was here

my farrier even remarked that he had good feet for a "laminitic"..and at no point was it suggested he was arthritic..and no, i'm sorry arthritis doesnt just "pop up" in a few months..not as severe as PTS is considered..
i'm just a little :confused:
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I can understand your confusion - my mare probably had the arthritis before I got her, but it's only showed recently - I get your point, and like you say - it's still mild and nowhere near PTS consideration - hopefully with medical advances as they are today that will be several years away. But I won't get into a discussion on it on this thread as I don't feel it's appropriate. Mrs M has my sympathy and at the same time, I understand your confusion - particularly as you have offered to take the pony back.
 
bakedbean said:
You, young lady, are being extremely rude.

I actually KNOW this pony very very well.

And i've kept quiet untill now....BUT..

IMHO there isn't anything untoward about this pony.
I believe the OP's Vet is a complete idiot...and is greatful for the money that is gleaned on a regular basis.
i have offered to have this pony back again from the OP...this offer has been declined...for reasons best known to the OP.
i can honestly say that this pony IMO is a "victim" of a subservient vet..and a complient owner..
i'm absolutely gobsmacked that a perfectly healthy, albeit arthritic (maybe?), lively, well intergrated, socialised pony, who would come in overnight/stand in during the day, (as he was here)..not 8 months ago has degenerated so badly that he's needs to be PTS before the next winter?
Sorry OP....but i think you are wrong..(the advice you are taking is also wrong)...this pony is, AFAIC a normal mid teens pony..
yes, i'm known to be upfront..(you have supported me numerous times) and i am being so, on open as obviously my pm's have been brushed aside.

This pony does not need to be PTS..He needs to be treated as a normal pony...as he was here..let him be a pony..please leave the Psychology to others..
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I have just written a very angry response. The shortened version is:

Do you need to see the x-rays from the previous vet and the three months box rest? Do you need to see the reports from three different farriers? The two different practice vets?

He is not mid-teens.

My vet has not charged me for this treatment.

You have not seen him in the cold, stood by his hay, not wanting to move to even come in for a feed.

Well integrated social pony? Have you seen the patches on his rug from the others attacking him at one yard? You should have done, it went with him when he was with you. Did you not see it when you put it on him when it was cold and wet as requested? He shivers when it's chucking it down.

"Offered to have this pony back from the OP" - you want me to uproot him from his field buddy again and pay you to keep him? The money is not an issue for keeping him! It's seeing him in pain and not being able to do anything about it that is the issue!

Subservient vet? Bo!!ocks. She wouldn't kowtow to anyone, least of all me.

Compliant owner? Compliant to whom exactly? About what?

He's been back from yours for well over eight months.

Your PMs were brief and not clear, other than saying send him back to you.


I see you have posted something else further down, so I will reply to that and then to no more from you.

I know I have defended you on countless occasions, and I know that you are a horsewoman of some note, however, you are not a vet nor a farrier. I trust my vet implicitly. I trust my farrier implicitly. You, I no longer trust. You have my phone number, you have my email address, you have not contacted me by either, instead you have chosen to come on here and respond in the manner you are well known for.

More fool me for believing in you.

LL is fine as he is. I will not have him in pain again when I can do nothing to stop it. You have not seen him in the cold. You have not seen that he can't lift his hind legs high enough for normal picking out without discomfort. You have not seen him walking so slowly from field to stable.

I'm going to go and answer your other post and then that will be enough I think.

I care deeply about this pony and he is and will be looked after properly.
 
Holly Hocks said:
I can understand your confusion - my mare probably had the arthritis before I got her, but it's only showed recently - I get your point, and like you say - it's still mild and nowhere near PTS consideration - hopefully with medical advances as they are today that will be several years away. But I won't get into a discussion on it on this thread as I don't feel it's appropriate. Mrs M has my sympathy and at the same time, I understand your confusion - particularly as you have offered to take the pony back.
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I do not understand this 'offered to take the pony back' part. He was at her place for a short time due to yard issues and because we thought it was best for him at the time. BB did not pay for him, I paid BB to look after him. I have sent pictures etc. of him to BB, no response, so there didn't seem much connection there.
 
Mrs M and BB - don't fight - it's not the right time for that. You need to talk to each other - not on here, and each explain your views. I hope you talk soon and mend your differences.
 
Echo Bravo said:
Sorry Ninjapony, but you have been very rude to some people on here. We all give our honest opinions, MrsM has seen fit to disregard some of them that is her choice, not very one is going to sweetness and light in their replies and that is what is good about this forum.
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You make it sound as though they were valid points in this instance, which they aren't (in this instance), so they are not 'disregarded' as you state, but noted and will be referenced in the future should the need arise and suit the situation at that time.
 
Holly Hocks said:
Mrs M and BB - don't fight - it's not the right time for that. You need to talk to each other - not on here, and each explain your views. I hope you talk soon and mend your differences.
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Wise words HH, but sadly, at the moment, I am far too angry. BB was someone who I thought that, despite everything, I could rely on to be to the point and upfront, however I expected that it would be via the phone. A call. A text. A 'what can we do about this' - not an attack on a public forum.

Again, I am a fool and all I can do is learn from it.
 
Mrs M - at the end of the day, he is your pony and you are the one who sees him every day and knows what his current condition is. It is yours and only your decision, and whatever anybody on here says, you should and will do what you know is right.

BB and Mrs M - you need to talk - and not on here - and try to mend your differences by explaining why you each think you are right....I hope you sort it out - we don't need two valuable members of the forum at loggerheads - you are the ones who give us the great advice that we all take on board and who offer tea and sympathy when it's needed. Good luck.
 
Echo Bravo said:
Cann't understand why MrsM put this thread up now,why not nearer to Sept:confused::confused::confused:
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I put it up now because I was lying in bed, feeling a bit blah for other reasons, read the Euthanasia thread, and it brought it all home to me.

I've come on here for support and supported others in the past. I knew I would get differeing opinions and views and I thought that maybe someone would suggest something I hadn't thought of (though as I've gone so far as to try and source furry leg warmers for horses there might not be anything, but I was open to suggestion - when I had to have a horse put to sleep two and a half years ago, I used every means at my disposal to find an alternative solution, and I have a lot of contacts in this and related fields). I expected, once I'd hit the Submit button, that some people would be less than kind, but it's a public forum, so is part and parcel of it all and one has to accept that.

May I politely suggest that if you do not like my threads or posts, that you put me on UI?
 
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