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MrsMozart said:
Sorry, being pathetic, but I've just read some of the Euthanasia thread :(

It brought it home to me that we are going to lose Little Lad this summer :(:(:(

I won't eulogise about him now. The time for that will come.

He is laminitic (both stress and sugar induced), and now he has arthritis in both front legs. Through the spring and summer he's on one Bute a day, sometimes upped to two if the ground is hard or it gets cold. In the winter he was on two Bute a day and still wasn't comfortable moving around. He would just stand by a hay pile, I would feel awful asking him to move to come in for his feed. He doesn't stable easily (a day and a night is his max - when he's been stabled for the laminitis bouts, things got interesting and he gets very miserable, plus now he's arthritic he seizes up).

A few weeks ago I put his management to my vet, who has known LL since we got him over four years ago. I expected her to come up with magic ideas to manage him, but she agreed that last winter was very tough on him and another one would be unfair and unkind.

So, before the flush of September grass, he'll have a day of pampering, all the things he usually can't have to eat, more cuddles than enough, and we'll say goodbye; with the sun on his back and knowing he is so very much loved.
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I had to make the heartbreaking decision to part with my best friend of fifteen years last week. I bought him when I was fifteen years old, and you know what teenage girls are like with their beloved horses! Well, that kind of continued in to my thirties!

My Eddie was laminitic, and I now get great comfort from knowing he is no longer in any pain. xx
 
MrsMozart said:
Wise words HH, but sadly, at the moment, I am far too angry. BB was someone who I thought that, despite everything, I could rely on to be to the point and upfront, however I expected that it would be via the phone. A call. A text. A 'what can we do about this' - not an attack on a public forum.

Again, I am a fool and all I can do is learn from it.
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I'm glad you posted as I wondered if BB was just an argumentative troll...

All we ever do is learn and when we stop learning we stop listening and asking and talking. I hope the discussions can be resolved elsewhere even if you agree to disgree, good luck :)
 
I've not even read all of the 'argument'. HOWEVER...

I know how heartbreaking it is to make this kind of a decision. Mrs M you've been nothing but supportive and kind to me and, little as I know of you, I'm positive it's not a decision made lightly and without exploring all available alternatives.

Thoughts are with you and enjoy the time you have left with your LL. Take loads of photos and make loads of memories so that, when the time comes, you have plenty to look back on with fondness. :)
 
bakedbean said:
Oh well..............

I too, trust my Farrier...he has been with me for 28 years...he said the above..
I too, trust my EDT..mid-teens is the concensus..
yes, i'd have him...at NO POINT did i say you were to pay for him to stay here, did I?.......no, i didnt think so..
I like you..but you have now said otherwise..not my problem..
You now have a dilemma really...is LL a lost cause...or isn't he?
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Would your farrier like to see his x-rays? We had two vets on that case, two different practices. We've worked damn hard on making sure LL didn't get laminitis again, other than a very brief bout that we managed to get on top of very quickly. I'm proud that my vets and farrier did such a good job.

Your PMs said nothing about not paying, and as I paid last time (again, no issue with paying) it was atutomatic for me to expect to pay again.

I fully appreciate that I and my horses are not your problem. I am deeply saddened and if anyone had told me this were to happen I would have laughed in their face and said pull the other one. It's not that we have disagreed/argued, etc., it's the manner in which you have responded. You sent two PMs, I replied to both, expecting a response to the second, but I have checked again and there's nothing, so I assume you haven't replied to that one. I've checked my phone again to see if you have called or sent a text and I missed it, but nothing.

As to your EDT. LL's teeth were in such a state when we got him (he had a smile and a wedgie, amongst other things), that he had to have extensive power tool work. At a local equine specialist center. Carried out by the EDT used by all the big equine practices around here. All the vets and EDTs who have seen him since have said that he cannot be aged by his teeth now.

How do I get it across that I would love him to be healthy. I would love him to be mid-teens. I would love to see his daft wee face every day for the rest of my life? But that equally, I will not see him in pain.
 
bakedbean said:
possibly..but this pony was supposedly, on veterinary advice a chronic laminitic..it wasnt the case whilst he was in my care
the pony was, supposedly on veterinary advice not alowed to eat certain fodder..it wasnt the case whilst he was in my care
he was borderline sweetich..not whilst he was here

my farrier even remarked that he had good feet for a "laminitic"..and at no point was it suggested he was arthritic..and no, i'm sorry arthritis doesnt just "pop up" in a few months..not as severe as PTS is considered..
i'm just a little :confused:
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So, were you feeding him carrots, Polos, and haylage? Note: I appreciate that 'fodder' does not necessarily cover all of those.

As stated elsewhere, yes, he does have good feet because my farrier worked his ar$e off to get them that way.
 
leflynn said:
I'm glad you posted as I wondered if BB was just an argumentative troll...

All we ever do is learn and when we stop learning we stop listening and asking and talking. I hope the discussions can be resolved elsewhere even if you agree to disgree, good luck :)
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Thank you. Again, wise words.

I will take yours and HH's and others on here and go away now I think.
 
When I saw your name, I was interested to see what you said P2.

I really don't mind the comments when they are relevant. But, you're right, I should have anticipated that there would be those who would not read it properly/interperate if differently to how I meant it.

My issue here with BB is the method chosen. I should have known better than to think that it would have been any different for me.

And you are again right. I will not post anything like this again. I hope I never have to post anythign like this again.
 
Hi Mrs M, i saw LL last year I think at BB's yard. He looked fantastic, no sweet itch, certainly not lame and I am pretty sure he was eating haylage in the stable when i went there. I know things have been written that have upset you BUT why not take BB up on the offer of having him there for free. He was turned out in the herd and seemed very happy with the herd. Call her bluff, tell her to have him, and if in 3 months time (ie before September) he is not happy, sound and healthy then she has to PTS at her own cost.

I know I would give any horse I truly loved the chance to be healthy, if that meant the circumstances I was keeping them in was perhaps detrimental to their health then I would in all honesty look at a different environment before I PTS.

I would be happy to have any horse of mine go through BB. I know she has the health and welfare of every horse that goes through her yard as top priority.

it is a shame that it has come to this, I know you were over the moon with how he was while at BB;s yard
 
Mrs M - I haven't read all the replies I'm afraid but just the first page -I am facing the same decision :(

My mare has an injury from which she won't recover - ie never to be ridden again but she is not coping with retirement at all :( She is bloody bored stiff being stuck in the field.

It breaks my heart every single day I go to see her and she follows me to the gate and neighs after me, she has always been a very active, lets get going type of mare with a zest for life.

You have no idea how much I miss tacking her up on a summer's evening and ride across the moors with the dogs, she would stride out and say "come on then, lets see whats over this hill" she loves to get out and about :(

Yet superficially she is fit and healthy, her joints are 100%, she looks amazing but mentally she is going mad from doing nothing - I know I have to have her pts and I've done it before with other horses and never regretted it for a minute - its just I can't get round to making that decision.

I know that I'll let her see the summer out and before winter comes, its what I'll do but at the end of the day the horse itself won't know a thing more after its gone, its not going to look back and wish it had another 6 months, once its gone its gone and its just us that is left to grieve.

At the end of the day, its the kindest thing we can do as owners to give them a dignified end and that is what I will do for my mare. Yes, there is no physical reason whatsoever why she can't spend another 10 yrs living out in a field, but mentally she is not happy, its not fair and its up to me to end it for her - tough as that is :(

I really feel for you, I have been there before and know I will again very soon but thats our duty of care to our animals - to do the right thing as hard as that is xx
 
Thank you for your thoughts Bosworth, but no.

If it were the case that he was eating haylage, I won't print what I think about my pony being feed foods he should not, on two different vets' practices advice, have been given, and he sure as he!! won't be going back there.

As to the costs, he's my pony, I pay for him, in all respects.

May I clarify that he looked good when he went, he looked good when he came back. Other than the slight weight drop, which I'm hoping is his teeth and the EDT is coming next Saturday, and his coat having more grey hairs in it, he looks good now.

Being at her yard is not going to make any difference when the cold weather comes. It will still be cold. He will still have arthritis. He will still be in pain, especially if he's on those hilly sections.

But thank you again for your input.


Bosworth said:
Hi Mrs M, i saw LL last year I think at BB's yard. He looked fantastic, no sweet itch, certainly not lame and I am pretty sure he was eating haylage in the stable when i went there. I know things have been written that have upset you BUT why not take BB up on the offer of having him there for free. He was turned out in the herd and seemed very happy with the herd. Call her bluff, tell her to have him, and if in 3 months time (ie before September) he is not happy, sound and healthy then she has to PTS at her own cost.

I know I would give any horse I truly loved the chance to be healthy, if that meant the circumstances I was keeping them in was perhaps detrimental to their health then I would in all honesty look at a different environment before I PTS.

I would be happy to have any horse of mine go through BB. I know she has the health and welfare of every horse that goes through her yard as top priority.

it is a shame that it has come to this, I know you were over the moon with how he was while at BB;s yard
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Quite frankly BB it's nothing to do with you.

MrsM, you give support to so many people on here, it's not at all out of order for you to want some in your own difficult times.

There's many things worse than a quick and painless death. If there is a chance he will suffer over the winter, but is happy and comfortable now then i see now problems with Mrs M's plans. Seriously, no one can win on here. It's either too early or too late, lynchings on both sides. No one can make the decision but the owner, and i don't think it's unfair to expect a bit of tact and compassion at these times. After all, when the pony is gone he is gone. It's us humans who are left to cope with the pain.
 
bakedbean said:
possibly..but this pony was supposedly, on veterinary advice a chronic laminitic..it wasnt the case whilst he was in my care
the pony was, supposedly on veterinary advice not alowed to eat certain fodder..it wasnt the case whilst he was in my care
he was borderline sweetich..not whilst he was here

my farrier even remarked that he had good feet for a "laminitic"..and at no point was it suggested he was arthritic..and no, i'm sorry arthritis doesnt just "pop up" in a few months..not as severe as PTS is considered..
i'm just a little :confused:
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Actually, I'm just a little confused too, BB.
I'm sorry if I'm far too late into this thread to just pop up, but i've been following for a while and can't seem to grasp one thing.

If, as you state above, LL was doing so great with you and shouldn't be put to sleep WHY OH WHY haven't you offered your advice to help MrsM manage LL in the same way you did? This does NOT mean offer to have him back or take him off her hands and onto your property again - that isn't offering advice, it's doubting MrsM's evident capability to care for LL. Instead, if you feel so strongly that he would be better under your ways, guide her on how to recreate this same 'magical wonder environment' at her place that you supposidly provided at yours?

If you honestly have the pony's best wishes at heart then your role should be as ASSISTANT/SUPPORT and if that's not a part you're willing to play then I politely suggest you bog off out of it.

MrsM - you have my sympathy in this difficult time and I have no doubt you will make the best decision when it's needed and not until then. I hope your daughters and yourself stay strong together through it. x
 
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Mrs M, I'm not going to comment on whats's been said on this thread because I know you will do what is right for your boy, just tell you about my experience with my old pony.

Last summer I had my 44 year old pony shot. He wasn't lame at all - in fact the day he was shot he jumped a hedge taller than me ;) We'd had him for 30 odd years and he retired from competitive jumping in his mid thirties, did a couple of years of beginner PC but was too naughty really for that so he retired. He was quite happy free ranging round the farm but I had this horrible feeling that one day it would all go wrong - he would go down and struggle to get up. It was fairly obvious his digestive system wasn't working as well as it used to, he'd lost a lot of weight but some of that was because we'd always been worried about laminitis so over the summer he had unlimited grazing and put a fair bit of weight on :) I basically made the decision that although people tell you that you will know when they give up that I didn't want him to ever give up and he was shot last summer :( He knew nothing and I am 100% sure to this day that it was the right thing to do - I never want any of mine if they get old to give up. I don't believe that one bute a day to keep them comfortable is a bad thing if they need it but I do believe that once you make the decision it's better to do it :( It's not easy at all but in the grand scale of things keeping them for another month adds nothing but upset to you. I know you love your horses and I don't believe there is actually a right thing to do regards your pony, I just found that having made the decision it was better to do it then.

Whatever you decide I wish you and LL all the best, ateotd he is your pony and not really in pain on the bute so take the time you need.
 
I have not read this entire thread and to be honest avoided it for a while as I lost my old chap this year...nearly 25 years with the one horse, from foal to oap...miss him so very much and will be thinking of you. Big, huge hugs.
 
Ashleigh_ said:
Actually, I'm just a little confused too, BB.
I'm sorry if I'm far too late into this thread to just pop up, but i've been following for a while and can't seem to grasp one thing.

If, as you state above, LL was doing so great with you and shouldn't be put to sleep WHY OH WHY haven't you offered your advice to help MrsM manage LL in the same way you did? This does NOT mean offer to have him back or take him off her hands and onto your property again - that isn't offering advice, it's doubting MrsM's evident capability to care for LL. Instead, if you feel so strongly that he would be better under your ways, guide her on how to recreate this same 'magical wonder environment' at her place that you supposidly provided at yours?

If you honestly have the pony's best wishes at heart then your role should be as ASSISTANT/SUPPORT and if that's not a part you're willing to play then I politely suggest you bog off out of it.

MrsM - you have my sympathy in this difficult time and I have no doubt you will make the best decision when it's needed and not until then. I hope your daughters and yourself stay strong together through it. x
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This ^

MrsM, I'm so sorry you've had to make this decision.
 
I think you will find that Mrs M doesn't like to take advice from anyone without letters after their name... I feel sorry for the pony tbh. Mrs M seems to be contradicting herself

Through the spring and summer he's on one Bute a day, sometimes upped to two if the ground is hard or it gets cold. In the winter he was on two Bute a day and still wasn't comfortable moving around. He would just stand by a hay pile, I would feel awful asking him to move to come in for his feed. He doesn't stable easily (a day and a night is his max - when he's been stabled for the laminitis bouts, things got interesting and he gets very miserable, plus now he's arthritic he seizes up).
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And then later on, he's not on any, only one when he needs it. Just how is his liver, I wonder... There are alternatives to bute, that are just as effective, for a pony not in work, to keep him comfortable. Arthritis flaring up can also be diet related, perhaps his diet needs reviewing...!
 
pastie2 said:
I am sorry that this post has come to this. Having said that it is an emotive subject that should only affect the owner of the horse. I have not and never will post on this forum when and if I have a horse put down, I personally dont want to revel in *virtual hugs* or any platitudes from people I dont know. It would be my decision and nothing to do with anyone else. I am sorry Mrs M but you have let yourself open to comments that you most probably dont want to hear. To me its a very private affair, and thats how it should be.
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I couldn't agree more as to do otherwise just seems to demand attention, particularly 3 months in advance of the deed.
 
Maesfen said:
I couldn't agree more as to do otherwise just seems to demand attention, particularly 3 months in advance of the deed.
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At last some other onliners can see what MrsM is about, I have never come accross anyone who is always winging, whineing, moaning trying to grab attention, in all my life, her posts on here show her to be a ADD person, constantly wanting attention and sympathy, all through the clouded veil of 4 poor ponies that always appear to be severely lame or ill from something or other.

I'm sure most of these so called ailments are conjured up to get attention, this pony seems to have had, laminitis, sweet itch, arthritis, pottery, lame, can't move from his hay pile in the winter, doesn't want to walk, doesn't want to pick his feet up to be picked out, he is in so much pain, then in december she say's he's in fine health, ( no mention of the sweet itch or laminitis). As another poster says MrsM is constantly, repeatedly contradicting herself but then that's what liars do, cos they can't remember what they made up 6 months ago can they?

Also the pony was away for over 7 months, why? as you love him so much?
According to you this past winter he could hardly move, so why have you not done something about it instead of bleating on here trying to get sympathy for YOU not your ponies.

Many many people have to take the terrible decision to have their horse put down for health reasons every day of the year, they get on with it for THE HORSES SAKE, according to JM07 there was nothing wrong with your pony at all when she had it, so are you making it all up? to get attention?

Sick and fed up of hearing your winging about one pony or the other, ever thought that on the evidence on this forum from you yourself, that you shouldn't have any?
 
pastie2 said:
I am sorry that this post has come to this. Having said that it is an emotive subject that should only affect the owner of the horse. I have not and never will post on this forum when and if I have a horse put down, I personally dont want to revel in *virtual hugs* or any platitudes from people I dont know. It would be my decision and nothing to do with anyone else. I am sorry Mrs M but you have let yourself open to comments that you most probably dont want to hear. To me its a very private affair, and thats how it should be.
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I have to say I also agree with this and whilst I do feel for MrsM, no one likes to make this decision, I don't feel that an internet forum is the place to discuss it as, naturally, there will be people who do not agree with you.

This is not intended in anyway to belittle MrsM's feelings, but attacking those who offered a sympathetic but differing point of view (Sleepingdragon10 specifically) is not productive.

I do not know the pony so am not going to comment on whether or not he should be pts, not my place tbh but I would say, at the risk of repeating myself, don't post on an open forum and expect everyone to agree with you.

MrsM I am sure that you will do what is best for your much loved pony.
 
Rouletterose said:
At last some other onliners can see what MrsM is about, I have never come accross anyone who is always winging, whineing, moaning trying to grab attention, in all my life, her posts on here show her to be a ADD person, constantly wanting attention and sympathy, all through the clouded veil of 4 poor ponies that always appear to be severely lame or ill from something or other.

I'm sure most of these so called ailments are conjured up to get attention, this pony seems to have had, laminitis, sweet itch, arthritis, pottery, lame, can't move from his hay pile in the winter, doesn't want to walk, doesn't want to pick his feet up to be picked out, he is in so much pain, then in december she say's he's in fine health, ( no mention of the sweet itch or laminitis). As another poster says MrsM is constantly, repeatedly contradicting herself but then that's what liars do, cos they can't remember what they made up 6 months ago can they?

Also the pony was away for over 7 months, why? as you love him so much?
According to you this past winter he could hardly move, so why have you not done something about it instead of bleating on here trying to get sympathy for YOU not your ponies.

Many many people have to take the terrible decision to have their horse put down for health reasons every day of the year, they get on with it for THE HORSES SAKE, according to JM07 there was nothing wrong with your pony at all when she had it, so are you making it all up? to get attention?

Sick and fed up of hearing your winging about one pony or the other, ever thought that on the evidence on this forum from you yourself, that you shouldn't have any?
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Wow :eek:

That was straight to the point I must say :eek:
 
*shrugs*

End of the day, a pony is a pony is a pony. At least having a healthy pony PTS beats leaving an ill pony alive to suffer.

That said, from experience, people who plan in advance never go through with it. I'm guilty of that too.

What does stand out though... All the horses I've known who've had death warrents written months in advance had huge sacrifices made to save them. One's owner quit her job, left her OH and moved house. Another's gave him away to a close friend.
One gave her horse to a kindly HHOer.
All three horses are still alive, two of them have now recovered...
 
All comments noted and taken on board.

I am guilty of wearing my heart on my sleeve here, which I shall stop forthwith.

For those of you who find me such a drag, may I politely suggest that you put me on UI, to save yourselves any future anguish in case I slip up.

As to the, shall we say, interesting comments, no response from me. I have learnt my lesson and will not go into detail again on any of the points.

Thank you to all for your kind words. And for the messages and the suggestions, all much appreciated.

Thank you to all you had different points of view, they made me look again into my options with regards to this pony. I won't, of course (lesson learnt!), discuss here my findings and conclusions.

I may ask TFC to lock this thread as I do not feel there is anything productive that can be further gained from it. I am, of course, open to suggestions to the contrary.
 
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