inappropriate behaviour for dressage judges?

i had a lesson once with someone who had the attitude of your judge. To start with I felt mad at being spoken to like some child who had done something wicked in the playground. Then I thought I'm PAYING to be spoken to like this and thought "this is ridiculous". I got a fit of the giggles at the absurdness of it all and tried hard not to laugh. Had stifle it because I would have been thrown out the lesson! Never went back there for another lesson
 
was you taught anything?(apart from not going back there) Thats the lesson we learnt as she is the in house judge apparently - its the first time we'd been for a couple of years - it will be the last
 
odemae said:
you appear to be the only person on here who sounds to be actually believing it was appropriate behaviour
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No, not at all - if you read my initial post I said I was playing devil's advocate - sometimes it is good to actually look at things from another point of view. I was just trying to point out that the judge's initial 'beeping' might have been to prevent your daughter making the same mistake on the other rein - whether that mistake was not walking at all, or not walking for enough steps.

However, if the judge was actually aggressive and rude, then I agree that her behaviour was inappropriate, although it does sound that you and your daughter may have escalated the situation with your responses.

It would be interesting to hear the judge's account of what happened!
 
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cptrayes said:
I had an affiliated judge harangue me for not plaiting.
BEFORE I started my test.
And it is NOT a requirement to plait for affiliated dressage.
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It was instilled into me years ago, that it's an insult towards the judge if you don't turnout yourself and your horse to a high standard. They're not paid for their time (expenses only), and it's one of those unwritten rules that it is only good manners to make the effort to look pretty for the judge ;)
 
odemae said:
was you taught anything?(apart from not going back there) Thats the lesson we learnt as she is the in house judge apparently - its the first time we'd been for a couple of years - it will be the last
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Absolutely nothing! The trainer was so busy shouting and being rude I couldn't concentrate. They critised everything so much I gave up trying to please them.

There are too many other trainers out there who do know how to teach and coach and help you learn & improve. Why pay to be insulted?
 
possibly - which is what made me worry about it, but would many have had the strength to just walk away when she was so abusive and out of order? We have had some problems at home which has made me quite tense and on this occasion I didn't have that strength. We both knew she had done the walk which caused us both to look at the judge but not speak and question why she beeped, it threw us both, she shouldn't have got out of her car to have a go, if she hadn't done that the rest of the day would have just carried on. On the other rein my daughter slightly over exaggerated the walk to ensure it was seen. I don't like confrontation - my daughter less so and it could have been avoided. Incidentally the organisor was apparently present and walked away during it and was no longer seen, that has made us question whether this is a regular occurrence but no one has reacted before. As said before I don't like confrontation but I will stand up for anything I know is right and challenge inappropriate behaviour.
 
maybe the organiser will have a word with the judge re behaviour. If they dont and the judge does it again, other competitors won't like it either and they'll possibly vote with their feet and go elsewhere to compete.
If the venue looses entries because of it then the organisers will have to do something.
 
I have written for many judges - including international classes. During this time I have seen and heard many things!
Riders having a caller and still going wrong. Horses bucking riders off or napping. Movements not performed, or performed at the wrong pace. Judge asking if I thought the horse was sound(difficult when you are writing) but always if a movement is not performed or not performed correctly then marks are deducted but the judge does not stop the rider unless it is an error of course!

My very first dressage test, Pony Club One Day Event, consisted of turns on the forehand and haunches and counter canter. The pony I was riding was a school pony that did everything at a jog. I had proudly plaited her and her forelock stuck out like a unicorn!

Dressage was virtually unheard of and just an annoyance in a one day event. We had practised at home with poles in the corners and markers by the side of the track. As I was about to enter so my instructor told me to remember to ride right to the markers.
I jogged up the centre line, halted and bowed and jogged off. I turned left at C and the judge hooted. I knew I hadn't gone wrong so ignored the continuous hooting. I did all the test, including walk, at a jog and went up the centre line and halted. The judge got out the car and said "Sorry my dear, you have gone wrong!" I burst into tears and said that I hadn't. She then explained to me that I was meant to stay inside the poles and not be riding outside of them!
The markers were set away from the arena and I had done as I was told and ridden to them so most of my test was done outside the arena!

It was some years before the authorities decided it was better to have easier tests than advanced movements!
 
Not wanting to hi jack your post but, I never plaited. My boy just got so wound up it was not worth it. I was never (to my knowledge) put down for it. He is a pony, half Highland, and looks it so maybe why nothing was said. I think as long as pony and rider is well turned out, as in clean and tidy, with approriate clothes and tack, what difference to performance?
 
I believe your horse should like clean and tidy whenever you leave the yard , but I also thought that dressage is about correctness and manners - there are no marks to be gained for turnout!
 
I think I probably would have said "I did but would you like me to do it again so you can see it - where do you want me to start from" . Continuing in this way would have stopped the slagging match and also you would have had the chance afterwards, armed with witnesses to get the error of course penalty points removed.

I am NOT saying the judge was right - I just like an easy life!
 
Foxhunter49 said:
I have written for many judges - including international classes. During this time I have seen and heard many things!
Riders having a caller and still going wrong. Horses bucking riders off or napping. Movements not performed, or performed at the wrong pace. Judge asking if I thought the horse was sound(difficult when you are writing) but always if a movement is not performed or not performed correctly then marks are deducted but the judge does not stop the rider unless it is an error of course!

My very first dressage test, Pony Club One Day Event, consisted of turns on the forehand and haunches and counter canter. The pony I was riding was a school pony that did everything at a jog. I had proudly plaited her and her forelock stuck out like a unicorn!

Dressage was virtually unheard of and just an annoyance in a one day event. We had practised at home with poles in the corners and markers by the side of the track. As I was about to enter so my instructor told me to remember to ride right to the markers.
I jogged up the centre line, halted and bowed and jogged off. I turned left at C and the judge hooted. I knew I hadn't gone wrong so ignored the continuous hooting. I did all the test, including walk, at a jog and went up the centre line and halted. The judge got out the car and said "Sorry my dear, you have gone wrong!" I burst into tears and said that I hadn't. She then explained to me that I was meant to stay inside the poles and not be riding outside of them!
The markers were set away from the arena and I had done as I was told and ridden to them so most of my test was done outside the arena!

It was some years before the authorities decided it was better to have easier tests than advanced movements!
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:O!!! I thought that the tests they do now were reasonably strong for the level, but that sounds terrifying! When was this?

I think that the judge sounds out of order, but I'd be humiliated if my mum stepped in! All sounds a bit fraught really- if the judge is wrong, smile, nod and quickly move on. It's a 2 mark deduction so hardly massive losses.
 
Janah said:
Not wanting to hi jack your post but, I never plaited. My boy just got so wound up it was not worth it. I was never (to my knowledge) put down for it. He is a pony, half Highland, and looks it so maybe why nothing was said. I think as long as pony and rider is well turned out, as in clean and tidy, with approriate clothes and tack, what difference to performance?
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I can't plait. I just simply make a pig's ear of it. Most people think that I should be able to because I'm a dog groomer - yet I think it's because of the dog grooming that my hands ache so badly every time I try to pull a plait tight enough to look right. It's a mess start to finish so I hate doing it. So my dressage at the weekend, my usual trusty friend-who-plaits was away so I decided it was better to pull and tidy up mane, heels etc as I always do. I put even more spit and polish on my horse and myself and laid the mane as neatly as can be. And yep, I felt slightly underdressed for the party not being plaited - but nothing was said by anyone at all.

I was somewhat taken aback that for the RC area qualifiers that everyone WASN'T plaited (I wouldn't expect natives to be done, but everything else, yes). But I don't think it impacted their scores.

I've seen some abysmal t/o for dressage -- there was one girl that was such a mess - I wouldn't have hacked out like this! Filthy dirty colored pony, tail matted from rubbing and a few leaves still stuck in there ! No show clothes, just dirty jods, colored wellies and a blouson jacket. I wouldn't have believed she was turning out for dressage if it wasn't for the number tied to her back!
 
maresRus said:
i had a lesson once with someone who had the attitude of your judge. To start with I felt mad at being spoken to like some child who had done something wicked in the playground. Then I thought I'm PAYING to be spoken to like this and thought "this is ridiculous". I got a fit of the giggles at the absurdness of it all and tried hard not to laugh. Had stifle it because I would have been thrown out the lesson! Never went back there for another lesson
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...sounds familiar!!- Just out of interest male or female, voice like a foghorn? and where are you based?;)
 
Misinterpreted said:
It was instilled into me years ago, that it's an insult towards the judge if you don't turnout yourself and your horse to a high standard. They're not paid for their time (expenses only), and it's one of those unwritten rules that it is only good manners to make the effort to look pretty for the judge ;)
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If it's not in the rules she has no right to comment except later in a personal, not official capacity, and certainly not when she was just about to ring the bell for me to start.
 
maresRus said:
They're in Somerset .....best say no more:o;).....there are many of those types around
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ooohhhhh spoilsport :p. You are much more grown up than me...I named and shamed as everything that I reported was completely factual and had witnesses!! I can laugh about it now tho......kinda :D
 
TGM said:
Blimey - I thought you were talking about a young child by the way you were talking! At 30 I would have thought she was old enough to deal with the judge herself without her mother having to intervene, and definitely old enough to carry on with the other tests whatever had happened previously!
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you're so rude!!

because of how the judge behaved I imagine there would have been little point carrying on with the other tests anyway as it seems unlikely she would have received constructive criticism and more likely the judge would have been unnecessarily harsh due to her being so petty!
 
My friend entered 2 classes at a show being held at her yard for some experience and was torn to pieces in the comments In both tests. The judge was of a more critical nature, which resulted in children crying whilst reading their sheets and the majority feeling totally upset at their failures. There where so many complaints the organisers have said they will not use that judge again. This was a prelim level class and even if a test had gone totally wrong, as sometimes they do, comments should be encouraging as well as pointing out areas needing work.
 
TGM said:
Can you clarify exactly what you thought was rude? I wasn't the only respondent who thought the daughter was a child.
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it came over quite aggressive, although being an online forum I could have misinterpreted the intended tone :)
 
sounds like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other to me.

I did have a disagreement with a dressage judge at the RC areas last year. She came out the car at the end of the test and said it had been a lovely test but she was very sorry but as it was a championships I was not allowed a stick and would be eliminated. Thankfully I know my BRC rulebook well and did impress on her that whilst I knew that was the case with BD championships at RC areas that did not apply (especially having just done the musics 2 weeks previously!)

We were able to have a polite conversation about it and I said I would ask a steward to come over and clarify for her (which I did quite speedily as she was already conversing with the next competitor who had a whip and I would have been annoyed if I had been told to drop mine unnecessarily)

There was a bit of stress but easily sorted in a pleasant manner like most things can be :)

avthechav I want to know who now ;)!
 
ester said:
avthechav I want to know who now ;)!
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And me, as I am Cotswolds too and would like to avoid!! :D

OP that's a dreadful incident and indefensible. Whatever she thought or did not think, her behaviour afterwards was a complete overreaction. Unless you want to go there again (why?! ;)) then I'd write a letter of complaint.

I've done one dressage test, ever...unaffiliated, I was second to go. Judge was 20 minutes late. So there was now a little queue of us waiting for her. No apology, she saw the first test then I went in. She beeped for me to start then yelled out her car window "AND JUST MAKE IT QUICK!!!". Do you see why I've only ever bothered to do one? :D
 
sorry not only inapprpriate but rude - given that many of us compete for the joy and its exspensive hobby judges should encourage with constructive critism - i remember a judge who only 2 years ago came and judged at riding club( a loyal supporter to club for many years as we all start at the bottom with HOYS in our eyes -his words but i believe 25 yrs with club lol) and always found something nice to say to rider ( they always came from ring smiling even if at bottom) i have seen him get on at end of class to demo to rider and actually give a lesson in ring to the little ones - someone who simply enjoys encouraging people, takes pleasure in that and county judge to - what a gentleman he is doffing his hat to the tiny tiny ones lol im smiling thinking about it :)
 
otter2 said:
it came over quite aggressive, although being an online forum I could have misinterpreted the intended tone :)
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Which parts did you feel were aggressive? I would be interested to know that as that was definitely not the intention. I expressed surprise, thats for sure, but I can't quite see why you thought I was aggressive.
 
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The trouble with unaffiliated dressage is that the judge doesn't need to have any knowledge or qualification at all.

Just the fact that the OP's judge competes herself doesn't necessarily mean that she is competent to judge at any level.

I wrote for a list judge at our local Pony Club event recently and she did have to beep her horn several times, but only for actual errors in the test like forgetting a circle or turning the wrong way. If she had beeped everytime someone trotted early or didn't show a free walk or broke from canter I think she would have had a flat battery by the end of the day!

It sounds very unprofessional of the organisers to 'disappear'. Is it a proper showground or just a field they use for the odd show?

If she is their regular judge then it may just be easier to chalk it down to experience and not to go back there again.

Why not write to the organisers and explain what happened and that you feel unable to compete again under this judge? Even if (as is likely by their previous behaviour) they don't reply it might make you feel better about it and able to move on.

For what its worth, if that had happened at one of our shows we would have refunded your entry fees for the other classes and that judge would not be asked back!!
 
The judge's behaviour was highly inappropriate, and I would be making a complaint.
There is a dressage judge who judges regularly at the unaffiliated dressage comps at a well known equine college in the North West. As soon as I find out that she is judging I withdraw from the class. She doesn't like TBs and makes it well known. She will place an overweight cob locked in the wrong bend higher than any TB, or other finely boned horse. I did a class last year and it was videoed, so I know it was good. The person that followed me in - she rode an appalling test, her horse went on the outside of the boards on more than one occasion and basically it was just dreadful - she came second in a class of 30 that this woman was judging.....some judges really shouldn't be doing it, if they can't be impartial to breed/type

OP, I understand entirely why you challenged this judge and I would have done the same.
 
Foxhunter49 said:
I have written for many judges - including international classes. During this time I have seen and heard many things!
Riders having a caller and still going wrong. Horses bucking riders off or napping. Movements not performed, or performed at the wrong pace. Judge asking if I thought the horse was sound(difficult when you are writing) but always if a movement is not performed or not performed correctly then marks are deducted but the judge does not stop the rider unless it is an error of course!

My very first dressage test, Pony Club One Day Event, consisted of turns on the forehand and haunches and counter canter. The pony I was riding was a school pony that did everything at a jog. I had proudly plaited her and her forelock stuck out like a unicorn!

Dressage was virtually unheard of and just an annoyance in a one day event. We had practised at home with poles in the corners and markers by the side of the track. As I was about to enter so my instructor told me to remember to ride right to the markers.
I jogged up the centre line, halted and bowed and jogged off. I turned left at C and the judge hooted. I knew I hadn't gone wrong so ignored the continuous hooting. I did all the test, including walk, at a jog and went up the centre line and halted. The judge got out the car and said "Sorry my dear, you have gone wrong!" I burst into tears and said that I hadn't. She then explained to me that I was meant to stay inside the poles and not be riding outside of them!
The markers were set away from the arena and I had done as I was told and ridden to them so most of my test was done outside the arena!

It was some years before the authorities decided it was better to have easier tests than advanced movements!
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I'm sorry but this is the most hilarious thing I have read in ages. The picture it conjures up is hilarious...
 
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