incident between my horse and a car - where do I stand?

[LeneHorse]

I would be grateful for advice from any insurance experts on here or anyone who has been involved in a similar incident.
Here is a quick summary of what happened.
My friend and I were returning from a hack last night and were on the access road to the farm, which is a single track private road. A couple of private houses are also accesed by this private road. There are passing places where two cars can pass but on most of the road it is narrow with little or no verge. A car can pass if your horse will stand like half on on the verge but it is a tight squeeze.
Normally our horses are fine and will stand to let cars past but last night they were agitated due to the flys. 2 cars came down from the houses towards us, they were a bit apart. My friends horse was quite a bit in front of mine. We put them on the verge to let the cars past, normally they are fine. The first car came past both of us ok but by the time the second car was approaching me my horse was acting up and would not stand due to the flies. I shouted at the driver to stop but they kept coming and just as they passed my horse she swung her bottom out and made contact.
My main concern at the time was getting my horse back home to check her for injury so i just kept going. I assumed if there was any damage the car driver would follow me back, but i never saw them again that night. Thankfully horse is ok.
However tonight they apparantly were at the yard looking for me claiming there was a bash in the car and I am liable. I'll be phoning my insurance company first thig tomorrow but just wondered where I stand on this. Does the fact that it is a private road make any difference?

Personally I never drive past horses no matter how well behaved on that bit of the road as it is so narrow. If thery are coming towards me i stop the car and let them make their way past. If I am behind I wait till they reach the passing place.

Cornettos for anyone who has read all this!! With extra sprinkles!

 

[cellie]

I had similar few years ago and car came too close on blind bend and pushed me into barbed wire and up a verge.Its up to car driver to make a judgement on passing, cyclists and horses are supposed to get clearance space.I would let your insurance company argue it I gave mine diagrams and photos.My mare booted the car I thought she had been stung by bee until we arrived home and saw barbed wire scrape I assumed it was my fault but driver was so close I could see passengers foot wear.Be polite stand your ground and phone insurance company good luck
My insurance company backed me up

 

[AmyMay]

You stood to let the car pass. But equally told the driver to stop when she (horse) became agitated. So dont know where you stand tbh.

One to leave with the insurance companies I guess.

 

[mcnaughty]

You need to go and speak to the driver and assess the damage. If you did damage his car then I think you should pay up.

 

[ladyt25]

First thing to do is do not admit liability. Advise you insurers of the incident and exchange insurance details with the car driver. Do not get dragged in to any dispute o with them about liability at all! Leave this to the insurance companies to sort out. They will ask for your account (any witness accounts) and the driver's insurance will do the same.

Do not offer to settle any damages as this is admittance of liability. It is unlikely to be a very big claim anyway so best just leave it to the insurance companies to sort out. These types of claims are pretty common.

 

[christine48]

You need to go and speak to the driver and assess the damage. If you did damage his car then I think you should pay up.

I don't agree, she asked them to stop, the driver would have seen the horse getting agitated, so I think the driver is at fault. I'd leave it for the insurance companies and if there's any doubt get the vet to check the horse is OK too.

 

[supagran]

Just out of interest - would the BHS insurance cover this?

 

[holeymoley]

Hmmm..... Id be wary of the driver as if it was something big , like a dent then I'm sure your horse would have suffered more! Also as someone has said, don't admit anything, they could've easily bashed it theirself by accident and thought 'oh I can blame that girl yesterday'. Did you use hans signals to stop? I can see easily how the driver may not have heard.

 

[JanetGeorge]

You need to go and speak to the driver and assess the damage. If you did damage his car then I think you should pay up.

No WAY! If the OP speaks to the driver about the damage - and who might have caused it - or whatever - the OP's insurers will tell her she's on her own! She should speak to HER insurers - no-one else!

Her insurers probably WILL pay up - sounds like it would be cheaper than to argue it - but it is down to the insurers to deal with it!

 

[ladyt25]

Just out of interest - would the BHS insurance cover this?

Yes, as it's a liability claim

 

[ladyt25]

No WAY! If the OP speaks to the driver about the damage - and who might have caused it - or whatever - the OP's insurers will tell her she's on her own! She should speak to HER insurers - no-one else!

Her insurers probably WILL pay up - sounds like it would be cheaper than to argue it - but it is down to the insurers to deal with it!

As per Janetgeorge - do NOT offer to pay up. The point of having liability insurance is to cover these incidents. They are pretty common.

 

[LeneHorse]

Hmmm..... Id be wary of the driver as if it was something big , like a dent then I'm sure your horse would have suffered more! Also as someone has said, don't admit anything, they could've easily bashed it theirself by accident and thought 'oh I can blame that girl yesterday'. Did you use hans signals to stop? I can see easily how the driver may not have heard.

It would not have been safe to take my hands off the reins. The horse was ready to explode. I think she had a cleg (horsefly) on her. Personally I think the driver should have been observing the road ahead and seen that the horse was misbehaving and stopped their vehicle. That's what I would have done.

However I agree that it's one for the insurance companies to thrash out.

Thanks so much for all your replies, much appreciated.

 

[ladyt25]

Oh, you are likely to be asked if your horse has ever done anything similar before. Always say NO!!

Do not even mention any thought of it being upset by a fly. Just say you are not sure, something scared her and you asked the driver to slow down (however you tried to do this). The insurers may decide to settle 50/50 anyway but quite likely the car insurer's will pay. It's not always clear cut though and does depend how good your insurance company are. Ultimately, remember IF yours agree to pay then you will have to pay the excess and also the likelihood is your renewal premium will increase!

 

[Kat]

Do not get into dialogue with the other driver. Report the incident to your insurer immediately, then give the driver the details of your insurance company and let your insurer deal with it.

BHS would deal with this if you don't have any other public liability insurance.

 

[Tickles]

Depends what insurance you have.

Your property (horse) damaged their property (car) whilst they did nothing particularly wrong (shouting stop isn't recognised road signal and may well not have been heard) so you're probably liable.

If the damage is minor then you *might* be better paying yourself in terms of increased future insurance premiums if you report it.

But the insurance route is probably technically 'right'.

FWIW if you pulled over to let me (relatively horsey) driver pass I'd be pretty annoyed that you didn't have sufficient control of your horse to stop it damaging my car.

A clear hand signal/proceeding to passing place is in order for next time...

 

[Marydoll]

You need to go and speak to the driver and assess the damage. If you did damage his car then I think you should pay up.

I think not, if anything the driver should be paying for a vet to check the horse.
The driver was asked to stop, they didnt take heed of the rider telling them to stop as the horse was agitated, they made the choice to continue having been warned to stop id say what happened was down to them not listening

 

[Tickles]

I think not, if anything the driver should be paying for a vet to check the horse.
The driver was asked to stop, they didnt take heed of the rider telling them to stop as the horse was agitated, they made the choice to continue having been warned to stop id say what happened was down to them not listening

In a car you cant necessarily hear what someone further down a road is saying. OP didn't make any attempt at hand signals. So, no way to know (and certainly no way to show) that driver had been warned.

 

[YorksG]

The driver should drive according to the conditions, in this case they did not have room to pass safely and should not have tried

 

[GinaGeo]

We had a similar incident a few years ago. Although I hadn't waved the driver on at all and had used hand signals to ask the driver to stop, which were ignored. Our insurers ended up settling fifty fifty. And I wouldn't be surprised if your standing to let them pass and then shouting stop would be a little damaging. As a driver I can see how someone shouting stop, through windows and over the sound of an engine could be misunderstood. As horsey people we presume that joe-blogs can interpret body language, most can't so that's not a valid arguement. I should think that the animal act will be quoted to you. You'll probably be asked if your horse has done that before, whether you were wearing hi-vis, and whether you have any qualification for riding on the road, pony club/BHS. The latter really helped my case, as would an independent witness if there is one. Mine was a little, my friend and I's word against the driver and his wife. It wasn't pleasant and where animals are concerned the "law" isn't clear cut.

Hope you and your horse are OK.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Many years ago I worked as a civvie secretary to a police traffic department; I also worked briefly in an insurance office......... so these are my musings on the situation:-

OP I suggest you and your riding companion (who would have witnessed the whole event) sit down and each write a "statement" of what happened whilst its still fresh in both your minds.

Include stuff like: time of day, the weather (stress conditions ripe for horseflies), condition of road surface, any other witnesses in the vicinity (did anyone HEAR you shout? - you never know, they might have heard the commotion), width of road (go and measure it & include in your statement), exactly what your horse did and the possible reason(s) for it (i.e. horseflies), your own riding experience, how long you've had this particular horse, its normal temperament etc etc.

Then go to the scene of the incident and get some photos, if you can get the actual place where it happened, any hoof marks/prints on the grass verge/road etc etc. Let the photos be as good quality as you can manage.

Do all of this ASAP so no vital information is lost. It might feel a bit like playing amateur detective, but it will be in your own best interests to do it. If there are houses in the vicinity, you could, politely, ask them if they have seen this driver on the road in question before, i.e. does he normally drive fast? have there been any other incidents on this stretch of road?? Ask questions, you might just get answers which will back up your case.

Also state whether the driver would have had good visibility, include precise distances from when you estimate they first saw you, to the actual impact with your horse (measure them). Also..... include the speed you estimate the driver to have been doing prior to impact.

Also I think you should as a matter of urgency get a vet to look at your horse and get a report ready for your insurance company. They should pay for this to be done.

Cover your own @ss basically.

Do NOT admit any "liability". Do NOT say you're sorry (hey, you're not, it wasn't your fault!!), and do NOT under any circumstances make any offers of payments for the alleged damage. If the driver DOES make contact with you verbally, say that please would they make all representations in writing directly with your insurance company and that you are sure they understand that you cannot in the present circumstances engage in any verbal communication with them.

The onus is on the driver to proceed with caution in any circumstance like this; he/she saw that you were having problems and the responsibility lay with them to proceed with due care. The fact that they chose to proceed after you had done your best to warn verbally as you were unable to take your hands off the reins, lays the blame firmly with the driver I would suggest. The option lay with them to lay off the accelerator pedal and be sensible, but they chose not to.

It is sometimes a possibility that in situations like this that the driver might well try to frighten you by threatening to take you to court etc etc for repairs to his car. Just be chilled and ignore it; tell him you will refer all correspondence to the insurance company and let them sort it out.

PS: the driver will be the loser in the end because if HE claims on his insurance, he'll lose his no-claims bonus PLUS premium is liable to rise in the future. He'd be better advised to go to a crash repair garage, tell them its NOT an insurance job and get the work done on his own bat.

Stooopid git. I'm so sorry this has happened OP, something similar happened to me a while back and its scarey, and stressy, but the main thing is that neither you nor your horse were seriously injured, that's the main thing really, you're both here to tell the tale. But DO get your horse checked over by the vet ASAP - personally I'd get a physio to take a look as well as if there has been a "collision" with something there could be some damage that you might not know about.

 

[el_Snowflakes]

For a start the driver should have stopped. Instead they drive off without checking u were ok or calling the police? Otherwise known as a hit & run......

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

For a start the driver should have stopped. Instead they drive off without checking u were ok or calling the police? Otherwise known as a hit & run......

Yes, precisely.

The driver then surely has a legal obligation to notify the police of the "accident".

OP - I'd be inclined to ring the police and notify them of the accident anyway. They will probably tell you its a non-injury accident and a civil matter, BUT the issue of the driver not giving you his details and leaving the scene should give rise for concern and possible police action.

 

[Mike007]

For a start the driver should have stopped. Instead they drive off without checking u were ok or calling the police? Otherwise known as a hit & run......

It was a private road. so not subject to road traffic act. Nobody was hurt ,no need to involve police, and anyway he sought you out to get your insurance details .Nothing illegal there and certainly not a hit and run. I can well understand a non horsey person not stopping with an out of control horse leaping about.

 

[vanessarimmer]

Somebody please correct me if I am wrong but I think the key fact here is that it happened on PRIVATE land and not a public highway. I don't think you are legally liable for any damage your horse caused. A bit like you can't make someone pay up if they bash your car in a supermarket car park! The other thing is that you could argue that the car hit you, not the other way round.

 

[Mike007]

Somebody please correct me if I am wrong but I think the key fact here is that it happened on PRIVATE land and not a public highway. I don't think you are legally liable for any damage your horse caused. A bit like you can't make someone pay up if they bash your car in a supermarket car park! The other thing is that you could argue that the car hit you, not the other way round.

Sadly its never that simple, which is why we pay insurance companys to deal with it. And yes you can make someone pay for damage in a supermarket carpark.

 

[Spring Feather]

Somebody please correct me if I am wrong but I think the key fact here is that it happened on PRIVATE land and not a public highway. I don't think you are legally liable for any damage your horse caused. A bit like you can't make someone pay up if they bash your car in a supermarket car park! The other thing is that you could argue that the car hit you, not the other way round.

My farm is private land. If one of my horses damaged someone's car whilst it was parked on my property then I am liable. That's why I pay massive insurance premiums to cover my horses in case they ever did damage.

OP I'm really not sure whose side the insurers will be on. Damage was done to the drivers vehicle, both parties were moving, you gave no hand signals, your horse moved into the path of the oncoming car. Given the info I'd say you are liable, however the insurance companies will sort it out between themselves. Personally I would have dismounted to assess any damage to the horse and the vehicle.

 

[jellybeanz]

In practice your in the right.

Sadly in the eyes of the law I think you'll be proven liable.

Good luck either way!

 

[smellsofhorse]

Really you should have stopped and checked at the time there was no damage.
Although i know you would have been more worried for your horse.
Also why stop on the verge?
Keeo going until you reach a passing place or turn round and go back to a passing place.

You could ague with drive that they didnt say there was damage at the time of the incident so how can they say 24 hours later?
They could have caused that damage some other way and are using you to get it fixed.
Also you told them to stop but they didnt.
They ignored you and their car was damaged, so their fault in my eyes.

 

[Spit That Out]

If the driver can prove it was you that was riding (one horse looks like another to non horsey folk!!) then just exchange insurance details and let them sort it.