Incident with land owner - WWYD?

Just wanted to add - me and my friends have been cornered and told we can not ride on a bit of land, that we had assumed was a bridleway. There was a sign, but it was old and poorly kept, we weren't sure which way we could go.
The men were shooting and while they weren't threatening, they were very short with us.
"Oi, you're not allowed to ride here!"
"Oh, ok, sorry! There's a gate there, we'll leave. Sorry again"
"Whatever, it's not for horses!!"

We left before it went any further, but we looked it up and we were indeed allowed along there.

I hope you're not too shaken up, OP, but I bet you'll be super attentive to where you ride now :P
 
Bubley898 said:
Don't think OP can claim self defense now she has admitted it. OP if you were interviewed at a police station you were entitled to free and independent legal advice, if at your home then at your own expense and now prior to your meeting would be at your own expense. WWID? Apologise with gritted teeth and not trespass again.
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I agree with this. If you had genuinely feared for being harmed or terrified+++ then fair enough but you never made this clear and cant change your story to the police(if you had been you would have rushed home and rang 999). I would agree with the above and go to the meeting apologise but make it clear that he scared the living daylights out of you & grabbing your horse you thought you were going to get hurt etc, being a lone female etc and tell him he wont see you again.
I think you are getting off lightly, you did actually assault him(even if I dont blame you as a horse owner for being cross as we have one very pig headed farmer near us who tells everyone off even on bridleways) BUT you did actually assault him. There is no law to say you have to give your name and address to anyone.(that is true). good luck bite the bullet. I cant see how he can persue it if he has agreed to this meeting either so at least that is one good thing(ie he cant have it all his way). He may not even turn up...deep breath one word"sorry". If he is local he will not be very popular person for taking such action against a woman. Good luck though.
 
There are laws to protect animals from abuse and murder etc that's why people go to court over mistreated animals. However hard to prove he hung off horses mouth unfortunately.
Firstly i wouldn't have given real name or address. Second you should have gone to police so when he reported it you had already pre warned or gone soon after to explain. As it would have prob been null and void as self defence in that case.
You can't do anything now but i would get a solicitor opinion before saying anything else- then know what to say. If with bhs they have legal team who will help.
 
If someone was standing in front of a car shouting at you and blocking your exit would you drive at them till they moved. In the eyes of the law a horse is no different from a car
 
Forever_broke said:
Some thing I don't understand Is if this man was acting so aggressively then why would he have his back to the rider. To me the body language is wrong, he had multiple whelts on his back which means she must have hit him really hard to be marked through clothing. IMO he shouted to her she gave a sarcastic comment he got angry. wanted her details of where she was from as he has had issues and wanted to confront the YO. She wouldn't give details he grabbed the rein to stop her and whilst he had his back to her she battered him with a whip ( that's what doesn't make sense). A person acting aggressively doesn't turn their back on the other person
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Not if he is facing the rider and holding the reins while standing at the side but close to the head of the horse which is how I pictured it. That would be the only place to hit him otherwise you'd be smacking the horse in the face.

The chances are he knows about horses. I can't see someone with no horse knowledge grab hold of one during an argument.
 
I think it's worth having a look at those "self-defense on the trail" videos I posted a zillions pages ago. Whacking a guy with your crop might end in assault charges (after all -- he was ONLY hanging onto your "property's" bridle, preventing you from leaving), but if your horse runs over the dude, well, he was frightening it.

I used to keep my horse near an interesting (shall we say) bit of North Lanarkshire. I made sure the horse was sharp to the leg, if I wanted her to swing her bum around or throw her shoulder in any given direction, but the horse is like Lassie anway and would defend us. Had some lads approach us in a threatening manner while one a hack and I was worried and my horse started dancing and swishing her tail. They got spooked by her and buggered off but if they'd grabbed her, a crop to the back would have been mild to the damage the horse could have inflicted.

OP said she was afraid her horse would rear. As I said, if I were in her shoes I'd be afraid of being pulled off the horse and assaulted. Would you all be "blaming the victim" then (trespass or no)? I'd rather whack the guy with a whip or have my horse throw kick than face that.
 
I haven't read all of the thread but 99 per cent of answers are flawed in that the civil matter trespass cannot take precedence over the criminal matter assault. The simple trespass issue does not excuse his actions to you. I would not go to the RJ session without understanding the implications for you e.g can you end up with a criminal record. I would also like to understand from the police why they are not progressing your assault claim. Go to your MP or Police complaints authority and local police authority if you have to but please don't just roll over for this. Sorry if this has already been said. Take care.
 
But the point that is being missed she was so terrified that the police tracked her down a week later. The OP never went rushing to the police to report him instantly. Now if I was that terrified I would have got on my mobile 999 or as soon as I could. If I went home and told my OH he would have been furious and got on the phone in case there was some dangerous guy etc.I think she may have hoped no one would discover her. Sorry to sound so blunt but this is how it would stack up against her if she was trying to defend herself for being scared.

He sounds a right P...t. But perhaps he has had enough of people on his land ie what if he had been out rough shooting as he thought no one was around etc on his private land etc.
 
bonny said:
Reading these riding on people's land which always seem to end up with countless people saying the same thing re living rooms, gardens etc makes me glad to live in Scotland where we can ride more or less where we like. Does anyone know if such a sensible, fair idea will ever apply to England as well and then situations like this one would simply not arise.
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I dont think this is a sensible or fair idea, how does it work?
We have footpaths through our field, but i wouldnt want people riding through it! gates would have to be un-padlocked, ancient kissing gates removed, my horses would be in danger of getting out!!
there are bridle ways and footpaths through our common, and gates are left open there,and stock get out on the roads!!
there are plenty of bridle ways and footpaths!! (here anyway)
 
Before you go to this meeting please take legal advice. If you admit to this it give you a criminal record so if you ever go for a job and have to have a CRB check it will come up. Never accept a caution either as that is an admission of guilt and come up on a CRB.
If they think they have enough evidence let them charge you, they will then have to prove you caused injury and I would claim 'nessary force' as this man was theatening you and detaining you against your will. If you are charged I would get the press involved as well.
A man broke into my house with an axe with my husbanand children present and the police would have to prove he was there in court, as he could deney when it went to court. Let them prove you did it.
 
AMW said:
this is the Scottish Countryside Access Code.

http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/B621366.pdf

http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A309336.pdf

and yes it does work well, it doesnt mean you can ride roughshod wherever you want but the key is to be considerate and responsible for your own actions.
I have just had a lovely hack through a local estate, we checked with the gamekeeper and there are certain tracks off limit during the shooting season. This hack takes me through a couple of farms, I am polite and considerate, I would say the majority of riders are, but up here its taken for granted you can access these areas, there arent many riders in the area.
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with bridle ways, footpaths, in England at least you know that there wont be random shoots going on within a certain distance, you know you dont need permission and can ride without to much of a worry!
Also i dont trust anybody to be considerate and responsible, they rarely are!!
 
PS. A man once followed me home in my car because I apparently bumped his car when getting out of a parking space. I could not beleave it and took a circlular route home, when I puuled up infront of the house I ran inside and he's on the drive shouting abuse and saying I had damaged his car. My husband was home and he went out side to look, not a mark on the car. The bloke is still shouting and saying I'ed left the scene of an accident, I said what accident as far as was concerned I hadn't touched the car and had been scared to shaking by some man following me home. He then said he would call the police and I said please do and went inside,so he drove off.
What got me was a women was sat in the passenger seat though all this, Did she not the his behavoir was OTT. I think some men just lose it and lose all perpective.
 
Shivvy

I haven't read all of the thread but 99 per cent of answers are flawed in that the civil matter trespass cannot take precedence over the criminal matter assault. The simple trespass issue does not excuse his actions to you. I would not go to the RJ session without understanding the implications for you e.g can you end up with a criminal record. I would also like to understand from the police why they are not progressing your assault claim. Go to your MP or Police complaints authority and local police authority if you have to but please don't just roll over for this. Sorry if this has already been said. Take care.

I do agree with this. Take legal advice OP. Alot of the opinions posted on here are very wide of the mark, in law.

You have been assaulted.

Your actions are justifiable.

Go to see a solicitor.
 
You did assault the man AND trespassed on his land. No contest - you are at fault and should apologise. Self defence is also no excuse for assault in the eyes of the law. You'll be lucky to get away without a charge. Also from your description he did not "assault" anyone inc your horse.
 
glenruby said:
You did assault the man AND trespassed on his land. No contest - you are at fault and should apologise. Self defence is also no excuse for assault in the eyes of the law. You'll be lucky to get away without a charge. Also from your description he did not "assault" anyone inc your horse.
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I completely disagree with the above.

The man detained you and put you and himself in a dangerous situation, you were being prevented from leaving in a dangerous way, and verbally abused by an irate man while on your own, as a woman you had every right to be fearful of this man and his actions,you were in a very vulnarable position, i think you were justified in your defense of yourself due to his behaviour, and if hitting him with your stick enabled you to get away, thats what you needed to do.
As a woman i would not wait till some irate man decided to lift his hands to me, if i felt threatened id make damned sure i got the first kick in to let me get out of that situation.
 
He touched your reins he did not assault you. As others have said get legal advice not advice from a forum. Fwiw you do not get a criminal record that comes up on crb checks by taking part is restorative justice.
 
Poor Man! You trespass on his land and then beat him up! Crikey, I think the least he deserves is an apology. I have ridden on land that I know I should not have in my younger years but there is no way I would have attacked the land owner for pointing out my very obvious error.
 
honetpot said:
Before you go to this meeting please take legal advice. If you admit to this it give you a criminal record so if you ever go for a job and have to have a CRB check it will come up. Never accept a caution either as that is an admission of guilt and come up on a CRB.
If they think they have enough evidence let them charge you, they will then have to prove you caused injury and I would claim 'nessary force' as this man was theatening you and detaining you against your will. If you are charged I would get the press involved as well.
A man broke into my house with an axe with my husbanand children present and the police would have to prove he was there in court, as he could deney when it went to court. Let them prove you did it.
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But she hasnt denied she DID NOT do it? Even if we think she was in danger etc she never really made this clear. You cant go changing statements to try and get off. Even if we think he was wrong grabbing her horse. I do agree I would want to sound out with a solicitor though for peace of mind. Although I think she is getting of lightly and my guess is from what has been said is she knows she is getting of lighly by just saying sorry. She hasnt been charged with anything and I think the police are trying to just resolve this without charging her. She is probably lucky as if someone struck me with a whip I would want them charged. Perhaps the police know the farmer well they usually know landowners in their area. Would love to hear his side. How did they find her after a week?Someone must have given her details to the police etc. OP face the music and just pay ie £150 for a meeting with a legal eagle.
 
I really think that a lot of people replying now need to go back and CAREFULLY read the OP.

OP was trespassing, sarcastic when approached, and when the landowner (understandably IMO) demanded her details (in case of any damage, usually) and held her horses rein (NOT assault) she hit him hard enough and enough times, on the back, to leave several noticable weals.
And she now doesn't want to apologise.

A few things wrong with this for me.....

But for those who think it's ok to trespass on someones land and then assault them with a riding crop.......I hope you don't live near me!!
 
OMG what is wrong with you people??? Supposing OP was trespassing, what in heck gives this man the right to place her in a state of fear and grab her horse?? What gives this man the right to behave like this to a lone female?? What is wrong with landowner appearing, giving friendly chat and advise rather than jumping in all guns blazing - thats going to get anyones back up!

In the 80s one of my teenage friends was hacking in local woods, approached by a man who grabbed her horse and tried to pull her off. She was only saved by the fact her horse spooked and shot off.

Last year, one jumped up little farmer local to me, flew into a frenzy as myself and partner were hacking down a farm track belonging to him. He did a massive sideways skid in his jeep towards our horses and spooked them. I went straight to the Police and he got a severe warning. As it should be:)

Im with OP 200% here.
 
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I don't think anyone's saying it's ok to trespass or be sarcastic (its assumed but was she definitely sarcastic?) when OP was in the wrong. What a lot of people are IMO underrstandably upset at, is the fact that OP was scared when he grabbed her reins (as would I be) as he could have done anything?
Would everyone's reactions be the same if he had grabbed her? How did she know that was not to be his intention?

My pony can leap about scared etc and I can still hold onto her reins, so I'm not convinced that I would be able to ride her out of that situation (I'd certainly try and hitting someone with a whip would be a last resort but if I was scared for my life, then yes I would do anything to get out of the situation).

People say phone the police. I'd be concerned the man would go for me - I'd have one hand on rein, concentrating on phone and TBH, I'd be worried about falling off, man lets horse go, and I'm stuck isolated with a man!
Both were in the wrong but biggest concern for me is how he detained her and I can't believe a lot of people on this thread are happy about that. If you were out walking and someone grabbed you because you'd walked into the wrong field, would that also be ok? Maybe the man was just angry and wouldn't do anything else but HOW was OP to know that?

(PS. Despite being in Scotland, I don't go near anyone's fields etc, unless asked and therefore majority of my hacking is on roads!)
 
Pale Rider said:
Shivvy

I haven't read all of the thread but 99 per cent of answers are flawed in that the civil matter trespass cannot take precedence over the criminal matter assault. The simple trespass issue does not excuse his actions to you. I would not go to the RJ session without understanding the implications for you e.g can you end up with a criminal record. I would also like to understand from the police why they are not progressing your assault claim. Go to your MP or Police complaints authority and local police authority if you have to but please don't just roll over for this. Sorry if this has already been said. Take care.

I do agree with this. Take legal advice OP. Alot of the opinions posted on here are very wide of the mark, in law.

You have been assaulted.

Your actions are justifiable.

Go to see a solicitor.
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THIS IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY INCORRECT ADVICE

The whole point of the Restorative Justice meeting is to AVOID a criminal prosecution.

If this girl apologises she will NOT have a criminal record.

OP, go, apologise, go have a drink and forget all about it. Please, please do not listen to people giving you the wrong advice or you may WELL end up with a criminal record!




..
 
firstly you shouldn't have been there!
Regardless or weather it said private or not!
If its not a bridle way or common land no way should you have been there.

I bet it was scary and both or you were in the wrong.
He should have let go.
You should have hit him quite so many times to cause injury!
If you didn't give him your name how did he find you?
 
We re only hearing one side of this story. For all we know OP has ridden in the field everyday for the past 6 wks, has been spotted before, maybe has in the past caused some damage so LO has just cause to ask for her name etc.
Firstly, she knew she shouldn't have been there and if it wasn't the first time she would have been very defensive,and we all know how some people can behave when confronted. We only have her word on all of this and guilt (and she has admitted guilt towards trespass and assault) also can make people exagerate to justify their actions.
Just being devils advocate, if she is correct on all parts, who knows? Then, yes, LO could have handled it better but sorry, if it had happened as she has said, and she was that terrified why did she not phone the police to report it?
 
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jrp204 said:
We re only hearing one side of this story. For all we know OP has ridden in the field everyday for the past 6 wks, has been spotted before, maybe has in the past caused some damage so LO has just cause to ask for her name etc.
Firstly, she knew she shouldn't have been there and if it wasn't the first time she would have been very defensive,all we all know how some people can behave when confronted. We only have her word on all of this and guilt (and she has admitted guilt towards trespass and assault) also can make people exagerate to justify their actions.
Just being devils advocate, if she is correct on all parts, who knows? Then, yes, LO could have handled it better but sorry, if it had happened as she has said, and she was that terrified why did she not phone the police to report it?
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When this was posted I recited the story to someone who knows what they are on about legally, I hadnt even finished and they said immediately she is in the wrong. When I tried to defend her about being fearful etc I got NO NO she is in wrong(I have met one stroppy farmer in our area who was unreasonable and has been to many other folk). Go and say sorry much easier. I agree with above. Perhaps the farmer is a reasonable guy?
 
cptrayes said:
THIS IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY INCORRECT ADVICE

The whole point of the Restorative Justice meeting is to AVOID a criminal prosecution.

If this girl apologises she will NOT have a criminal record.

OP, go, apologise, go have a drink and forget all about it. Please, please do not listen to people giving you the wrong advice or you may WELL end up with a criminal record!




..
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^^^^^^ THIS. I haven't been on since yesterday and strikes me there are an awful lot of frankly silly people presumably under 18 giving really dangerous advice. I'd be interested to know how old the OP is. I'm sat here on my pedestal because I know I would have been able to de-escalate and diffuse the situation but perhaps the OP just hasn't yet developed those skills which actually isn't her fault, most of us in our teens and 20's are hotheads (not sure I'd ever have whipped a stranger though).
 
From the op it sounds to me as though she is used to swanning about and riding wherever she fancies.... Not just "accidental" tresspass... She was well aware she was trespassing. Not that it makes any difference in court.

But totally in the wrong, and if she hadn't been tresspassing it wouldn't have happened
 
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