incontinence in dogs

[conniegirl]

Daisy suddenly seems to have become incontinent.

she is peeing everywhere and most of the time is as though she doesn’t realise she has done it. Often she will continue lying in her own wee.

It is distressing to see and I don’t know what to do anymore.

she has seen the vet who checked her urine, tiny amount of bacteria found, vet thought it was nothing or possibly contamination from collection but put her on antibiotics anyway. They did nothing.

blood tests for diabetes, cushings, liver and kidney problems have all come back normal.

am a bit stumped for what to do next, we have to do something as this cannot continue.

i’m taking her to the vet again on tuesday but in the mean while has anyone got any ideas or experience with dog (female) wetting themselves and not realising it?

for info
Daisy is a 9 year old female Border terrier.

 

[Clodagh]

They can have drops that help. I can’t remember the name, someone else will.
Odd though that it has come on so suddenly.
I hope it clears up.

 

[skinnydipper]

If UTI was suspected based on urinalysis carried out at the practice and a broad spectrum antibiotic prescribed then I would ask for urine sample to be sent to a lab for microscopy, culture and sensitivity - this will identify the pathogen, if there is one, and which antibiotics it is sensitive or resistant to.

If she has spay incontinence she could be prescribed one of two drugs, or a combination of both. They work in different ways

Incurin, oestrogen.
Propalin, Phenylpropanolamine Hydrochloride.

 

[scats]

She hasn’t had the Librela jab has she? JD started this after hers. She would wake up in a wet bed, seemingly having no idea she’d done it.
Thankfully it seems to have stopped now, but it took a few months.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I am having a similar problem with my younger bitch. Not frequent thankfully but a few days ago I realised she had peed in one of the dog beds while she was asleep. Significant amount as it had soaked right through a sheepskin. I have had suspicions she might have done this before but not as bad as this. Going back before lockdown she had a couple of instances when my friend had come round with her dogs both of which Maddie loves. We would be having a coffee and Maddie would get on my lap and when she got off I would realise I was wet. Since lockdown we have only just started having a coffee together again and again despite her being over the moon to have her friends back we would notice a patch of wee where she had been sitting. Now I just pop her in her crate if I have visitors and she doesn't wee in there. I don't know if it is a nervous thing or an actual bladder problem. Given she is still insured I think I will be taking her to the vet.

 

[skinnydipper]

i’m taking her to the vet again on tuesday

How did Daisy get on at the vets? I hope she is okay.

 

[conniegirl]

They have given us a different antibiotic
if not better at the end of this course then further investigations needed.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Would query spay incontinence or maybe the onset of senility unless everything is OK otherwise?
Have there been any unusual/additional stressors that could be having an impact?

 

[conniegirl]

Would query spay incontinence or maybe the onset of senility unless everything is OK otherwise?
Have there been any unusual/additional stressors that could be having an impact?

Loads of stressors unfortunately. We are mid house sale/move.
That said whilst it would explain the wee normally she is very sheepish and guilty when she has had an accident, now she doesn’t even seem to notice.

 

[skinnydipper]

They have given us a different antibiotic

Did they send a urine for mc&s before starting another antibiotic? This would confirm whether there is a pathogen and if it is sensitive to the antibiotic they have prescribed.

 

[conniegirl]

Not sure what mc&s is but another urine sample went to the lab.
Im still not convinced its a UTI, the method of collection of the sample was clean but not exactly sterile and the amount found was very low apparently.

but we will try it and if she is no better i will march back in there and ask for different options

 

[HappyHollyDays]

I know 9 is not old for a small dog and I hope it’s just a mild infection but I have to ask does she have full sensation in her hind feet?

Our GSD started to lose control of her her bladder which was completely out of character and it coincided with her also losing the feeling in her back legs. It started in her back paws and the vet likened it to MS in humans whereby the nerve endings stop working and the muscles no longer receive messages from the brain.

 

[FestiveG]

Not wanting to panic you, but that was how B rotter began with a bladder tumour. She was ultrasound scanned, after the antibiotics only worked while she was on them and the tumour was found then. She had a good 8 months, on metacam, which inhibited the growth of the tumour and stopped the incontinence. When that returned was when we let her go.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I know 9 is not old for a small dog and I hope it’s just a mild infection but I have to ask does she have full sensation in her hind feet?

Our GSD started to lose control of her her bladder which was completely out of character and it coincided with her also losing the feeling in her back legs. It started in her back paws and the vet likened it to MS in humans whereby the nerve endings stop working and the muscles no longer receive messages from the brain.

This is CDRM, or DM, it is quite common in GSDs although carriers can now be tested for.

Other signs are scuffing back paws on concrete and not being able to quickly uncurl the back paws when manipulated. DM is present in Border Terriers. There is no pain associated with it, just gradual loss of power and feeling on the way back up the spine.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

This is CDRM, or DM, it is quite common in GSDs although carriers can now be tested for.

Other signs are scuffing back paws on concrete and not being able to quickly uncurl the back paws when manipulated. DM is present in Border Terriers. There is no pain associated with it, just gradual loss of power and feeling on the way back up the spine.

Thanks CC, we lost Amber over 20 years ago and I had no idea what it was called or it could be tested for but she did drag her back feet as well.

 

[conniegirl]

This is CDRM, or DM, it is quite common in GSDs although carriers can now be tested for.

Other signs are scuffing back paws on concrete and not being able to quickly uncurl the back paws when manipulated. DM is present in Border Terriers. There is no pain associated with it, just gradual loss of power and feeling on the way back up the spine.

Can you tell me what the full name of DM is? I shall certainly mention it when i take her back. She seems to have control of her hind end (legs and tail) but i’m not convinced about full sensation as i’ve never known a dog sit in thier own urine for a long period of time without seemingly noticing.

 

[skinnydipper]

Degenerative myelopathy. My Rough Collie had it.

If you knuckle the paws on her back legs will she correct them immediately?

The first sign that something was wrong was when I could hear his nails trailing on the pavement when he walked.

ETA. Sorry, I've just noticed CC has mentioned both of those.

 

[Esmae]

Daisy suddenly seems to have become incontinent.

she is peeing everywhere and most of the time is as though she doesn’t realise she has done it. Often she will continue lying in her own wee.

It is distressing to see and I don’t know what to do anymore.

she has seen the vet who checked her urine, tiny amount of bacteria found, vet thought it was nothing or possibly contamination from collection but put her on antibiotics anyway. They did nothing.

blood tests for diabetes, cushings, liver and kidney problems have all come back normal.

am a bit stumped for what to do next, we have to do something as this cannot continue.

i’m taking her to the vet again on tuesday but in the mean while has anyone got any ideas or experience with dog (female) wetting themselves and not realising it?

for info
Daisy is a 9 year old female Border terrier.

Has she been on steroids for anything recently? This happened to my old whippet bitch following steroid treatment. It sorted itself over time when she finished the course. The vet told me that this reaction wasn't uncommon.

 

[Squeak]

My terrier became incontinent at about that age, she would also pee in her sleep or when sitting etc and have no idea she'd done it. Sometimes when she woke up and realised she was lying in a puddle or damp bedding she was upset. It was a couple of years ago now so I can't remember exactly what we tried but I think we tried some antibiotics and did the urine tests etc and eventually it was decided it must be related to spaying so put her on incurin. She now gets one pill a week and doesn't have any incontinence anymore when on it, if I take her off the incurin it does come back.

At the time I was upset and worried about it but the incurin has worked brilliantly and controls it very easily.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Thanks CC, we lost Amber over 20 years ago and I had no idea what it was called or it could be tested for but she did drag her back feet as well.

We had one go with it in the mid 80s and another in the mid 90s, it's definitely been known about in the breed community for a long time but maybe some vets weren't as well appraised as they could have been. A lot of GSDs who 'went down on their hips' more likely had DM.

The DNA tests are relatively new...you test breeding animals rather than dogs suffering from it and the advice is to breed DM clear dogs to each other and never a carrier to a carrier.

CG as SD said it's Degenerative Myelopathy

 

[conniegirl]

So update.
Daisy has all sorts of expensive investigations, nothing found on them other than her blood shows she is dehydrated yet her urine is incredibly dilute.
Her kidneys are functioning fine according to all tests. She had been ultrasounded, xrayed, blood tested multiple times, urine tested, vet has ruled out a lot of things including DM.

So at the moment we are treating it as spay incontinence for a month and daisy goes back to the vet next week for a check over, blood and urine test again.

Have to say the weeing in the house has stopped, the drinking lots hasn’t but she is now at least able to wait and be let out for a pee.

 

[danda]

Weeing in the house is a real problem for my little dog. She is 13 this month and has not proper control of her back end ( because of bad treatment, hitting her on her back) over a long period. She has been with me since 6 years old. She has had several scans and has been seen by an orthopedic surgeon and nothing can be done to improve her mobility and loss of feeling in the hind quarters. All this to say that basically she does not feel the urge to go and wee until too late and at night she is too deeply asleep.
I have bought nappies but they always fall off, I bought a baby’s little all in one type of undergarment to hold the nappy in place but the fit is all wrong for her rather odd shape. If any one has any brillant ideas I would be very grateful.

she is happy, eats well, takes her meds ( for neurological discomfort), goes for little walks etc. Any ideas to save my washing machine?

 

[Clodagh]

So update.
Daisy has all sorts of expensive investigations, nothing found on them other than her blood shows she is dehydrated yet her urine is incredibly dilute.
Her kidneys are functioning fine according to all tests. She had been ultrasounded, xrayed, blood tested multiple times, urine tested, vet has ruled out a lot of things including DM.

So at the moment we are treating it as spay incontinence for a month and daisy goes back to the vet next week for a check over, blood and urine test again.

Have to say the weeing in the house has stopped, the drinking lots hasn’t but she is now at least able to wait and be let out for a pee.

It’s a shame the problem can’t be pinpointed. I hope the incurin (or whatever) works.

 

[Clodagh]

Weeing in the house is a real problem for my little dog. She is 13 this month and has not proper control of her back end ( because of bad treatment, hitting her on her back) over a long period. She has been with me since 6 years old. She has had several scans and has been seen by an orthopedic surgeon and nothing can be done to improve her mobility and loss of feeling in the hind quarters. All this to say that basically she does not feel the urge to go and wee until too late and at night she is too deeply asleep.
I have bought nappies but they always fall off, I bought a baby’s little all in one type of undergarment to hold the nappy in place but the fit is all wrong for her rather odd shape. If any one has any brillant ideas I would be very grateful.

she is happy, eats well, takes her meds ( for neurological discomfort), goes for little walks etc. Any ideas to save my washing machine?

Ours have waterproof mattresses with lightweight bedspreads on top. Easy to wash. Or maybe the things you line cot beds with that are very absorbent.

 

[twiggy2]

Hope your getting some answers OP or at least the incurin is working.
My Maz has had three of four wet episodes when sleeping this last week so phoning the vet today for an app.
It only happens when she is sleeping and she is not drinking excessively so I can only think incontinence but we shall see.

 

[AmyMay]

Did they test for diabetes?

 

[conniegirl]

Did they test for diabetes?

Yep, that was one of the first things tested for in both blood and urine tests. She has also been tested for cushings.

So far we have had no wee in the house since 2 days after she started the tablets! She still wees outside, we have been keeping an eye on that so so far it is looking promising.

 

[wren123]

Not wanting to panic you, but that was how B rotter began with a bladder tumour. She was ultrasound scanned, after the antibiotics only worked while she was on them and the tumour was found then. She had a good 8 months, on metacam, which inhibited the growth of the tumour and stopped the incontinence. When that returned was when we let her go.

Sorry to reserect this thread but my 15 year old lab had just been diagnosed with a bladder tumour by ultrasound. Apparently it's small, not in the bladder wall,or impinging on anything and she's quite well in herself. She's fully aware she needs to go, it's just very frequent with accidents. My vet prescribed propalin on Friday which I think helped in the daytime but we had two wees when we went down at 6 am.

I'll phone the vet on Monday about metacam, my vet never mentioned it. Obviously at 15 she's had a good life but it can't be nice for her needing to go all the time.

 

[Clodagh]

Wren123 every case is different but ultimately, and with no warning, my mum’s bitch’s tumour blocked her urethra and she couldn’t pee.

 

[wren123]

@Clodagh, another thing in worried about. I shall add it to my list and call the vet on Tuesday.

Another thing is I'm finding it quite hard keeping on top of all the accidents and I feel really, really guilty about that.