Indigo horses

ihatework said:
It’s quite an ask to agree with someone to take on a horse when they don’t know what situation they will be in when the time comes.

Such a minefield.

I’ve got an expression of wishes. My non-horsey sister to utilise one of 3 people to advise and manage on selling, loaning, pts the horses and those people are know pro horse people who would be paid an hourly rate from the estate to do this.

Best I can do, probably not fool proof.
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I know I'm named in a will to take on a friend's horse if the worst should happen to them, with funds to cover his costs and to pts when I see fit. It's not something I take on lightly - am sure most on here would feel the same.
 
Surbie said:
I know I'm named in a will to take on a friend's horse if the worst should happen to them, with funds to cover his costs and to pts when I see fit. It's not something I take on lightly - am sure most on here would feel the same.
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Oh for sure. But on the flip side you are presumably taking it on at a time in your life when you have capacity to do so. The point I was making is you might not be in the same position at the time it needs to happen, for a whole variety of life changing potential events. In which case it’s likely someone else would have to step in and deal with it, and that could be a non horsey executor
 
I do think everyone who owns any animal, regardless of age, should have not just a written plan for what happens to it/them if they can't care for it anymore but also a back up/alternative e.g named rescue/method of euthanasia if the nominated person can't assume ownership.

& This thread has reminded me I need to update mine
 
Surbie said:
It seems to be kicking off again. I feel so sorry for Janet's staff and the horses. That all the horses' passports ended up in a skip says enough about the people put in charge of handling any transition.
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What was the reason for putting the passports into a skip? Seems a very odd thing to do.
 
Asha said:
Probably just non horsey people
Doing the clear out of Janet’s home
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Poor horses.

I do find it weird that it seems to so easy to move horses around without a passport or to replace a passport in the UK. In France, it is required that the passport travel and live with the equine, so no transporter or dealer would have touched the horses without having the passports. I'm also pretty sure it would cost you a fortune to get a passport replaced.
 
Titchy Pony said:
Poor horses.

I do find it weird that it seems to so easy to move horses around without a passport or to replace a passport in the UK. In France, it is required that the passport travel and live with the equine, so no transporter or dealer would have touched the horses without having the passports. I'm also pretty sure it would cost you a fortune to get a passport replaced.
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The law is pointless. It really makes me eyeroll when people say we need new laws to deal with animal cruelty. No, we just need the ones we've got to be enforced! If they seized every horse that hasn't got a microchip, there wouldn't be an equine crisis.
 
ihatework said:
Oh for sure. But on the flip side you are presumably taking it on at a time in your life when you have capacity to do so. The point I was making is you might not be in the same position at the time it needs to happen, for a whole variety of life changing potential events. In which case it’s likely someone else would have to step in and deal with it, and that could be a non horsey executor
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I do see your point. However in my case, if I cannot look after the horse, I have full freedom to have him pts. If I am not around, he is to be pts. He's lovely but can be quirky and it's the most secure for him of all options we could think through.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
It is such a shame EMW were not involved as JG wished; they are an excellent small charity imo.
The org. that was involved doesn't have a good rep (there's some recent stuff on dodgy dealer pages about them).
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What happened with Equine Market Watch?

They had problems of their own last year with a will, the conditions of which seemed to be a surprise to them and they and the surviving partner/spouse were given notice to quit the premises.

EMW are still active on FB, did it get resolved then?
 
Tiddlypom said:
What happened with Equine Market Watch?

They had problems of their own last year with a will, the conditions of which seemed to be a surprise to them and they and the surviving partner/spouse were given notice to quit the premises.

EMW are still active on FB, did it get resolved then?
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They are still running, trying to raise money for land elsewhere as far as I know but they are very small.
I hope they manage it, though, not only do they help horses but everything seems to be done completely by the book.
 
DabDab said:
Hopton weren't really considered a dodgy charity at the time of Janet's death....there seems to be quite a few not great stories relating to them now/recently though. And then there is the way they behaved when they inherited Janet's estate...

It certainly is a sad cautionary tale of what can go wrong if you don't get your will locked down tight wrt what happens to your animals after you've gone.
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Ambers Echo said:
When I was doing my will I was told you could not legally deal with what happens to animals in a will. All I could do was leave a 'statement of wishes' alongside the will - but it's not legally binding. Haooy to be corrected but that is what I was informed.
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Ambers Echo said:
And another person gifted her horse to someone in her will- having agreed that in advance - on the understanding it would be a home for life. She sold on immediately. Ethics dissolve when money is involved. Sadly.
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DabDab said:
Yes, I've been told the same, sort of. They are property so you can still leave them to someone, you just can't then control what that person does with them.
I think the difficulty with Janet's situation though was that it wasn't the 'usual' case of 2 or 3 horses bequeathed to a close friend or relative with a statement of wishes that they are likely to follow. She had a fair amount of horses, a still semi-commercial breeding operation and it was all intertwined with her own personal residential property/home.

It's not the sort of assets package that is easily bequeathed to any other person or organisation.
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Ambers Echo said:
And another person gifted her horse to someone in her will- having agreed that in advance - on the understanding it would be a home for life. She sold on immediately. Ethics dissolve when money is involved. Sadly.
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ihatework said:
It’s quite an ask to agree with someone to take on a horse when they don’t know what situation they will be in when the time comes.

Such a minefield.

I’ve got an expression of wishes. My non-horsey sister to utilise one of 3 people to advise and manage on selling, loaning, pts the horses and those people are know pro horse people who would be paid an hourly rate from the estate to do this.

Best I can do, probably not fool proof.
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Ambers Echo said:
Well in the latter case, it was to a woman with her own horses who the ill woman had been paying to exercise her horse twice a week all throughout her illness. She was not expcted to die when she did, but had her affairs in order anyway. And she also left her money on the understanding that this would fund the horse's care. It was all very upfront. She even set up a fund for a DD to the yard owner for the horse to remain on full livery. Which became an issue when the horse went because there was no-one who could stop the DD! YO just accumulated it in a separate account waiting to be told what to do with it.
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For those of you unsure what to do to safeguard your horses, dogs, cats and any other pets, and importantly your money. A Trust needs to be set up within your Will.

I am not at all familiar with the Janet George situation, and have only just come across this thread. As many of you have read, situations can and do go wrong if your affair's are not put in place correctly, it is important to seek advice from a specialist in this field who can give advise based on your individual circumstances. Even the incorrect wording in your Will and things can go drastically wrong. I have covered this before on here on several occasions with my OH's input. It was covered on a thread back in December on Making A Will. He has also contributed to this post.

You should NOT leave money in your Will, directly to another person and tell them what to do with it, no matter how much you trust them ..... i.e. to look after your horse, animal, pets etc. That money becomes ' their money ' and forms part of their Estate and as such is wide open to 3rd party threats eg. divorce, debts, bankruptcy, unscrupulous partners if you pass away and who may be short of money and not want to keep your horse. If that particular beneficiary also dies, the money forms part of their estate. Also people who are on benefits if given a sum of money that takes them over the allowed limit will lose their benefits. People can also have an unfortunate accident whereby they become disabled and on benefits, if they receive a lump sum that prevents them getting benefits due to being a beneficiary from a Will, they won't be very happy about that happening, just to look after 'your animals '. You cannot claim that the funds were given to you to care for someone else's animals.

Goldenstar made a very good point on the December Making a Will thread regarding the releasing of funds to support your animals whilst the Grant of Probate is obtained, this can in some cases take many months and even longer. This can be overcome to provide money in the mean time also by gaining the correct advice.

In respect of Amber Echo's post's any letter of wishes outside a Will is just that and is not like a Will, it is an expression of what you would like to happen and is not enforceable.

If you make a specific gift whether it be an animal or otherwise, it becomes that beneficiaries own property and you cannot dictate what they can and cannot do with it.

Any bank account should have been closed following the account holders death, meaning no DD should be paid and in any case the executor could have stopped this happening.

By completing a Trust within your Will for the upkeep and care of your animals you can complete a letter of wishes as indications to your Trustees. It is a condition of any trust that there are 2 appointed trustees, who do not have to be the executors, but they can be. Reserves can also be appointed.
If there are no longer any animals alive and there are funds still in the trust then the testator should already have made it clear what happens to the funds, ie: gifted to an animal charity or a specific beneficiary or into residual estate. It is therefore important to consider the amount of any funds being placed into the Trust a % as an example. This can be somewhat difficult to calculate, but if there is any shortfall in the funds they cannot be released from the residual estate funds, as the estate will have been distributed as per the Will.

Hope that this helps.

ETA .... DIY, Charity, and Free Wills will not cater for Trusts in Wills.
 
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@Andie02 Can a trust in a will deal with requests to PTS animals left behind? Or are you solely reliant on trustees respecting your wishes on that point?
(If you don't mind the cheeky ask for info)
 
DabDab said:
@Andie02 Can a trust in a will deal with requests to PTS animals left behind? Or are you solely reliant on trustees respecting your wishes on that point?
(If you don't mind the cheeky ask for info)
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If you put a trust in your Will for the upkeep of your animals, it is best to complete a side letter of wishes outlining your wishes in respect of their care etc including PTS, It is advised that you give a copy of that to the trustee you have nominated to take care of them, when you complete your Will, with the original being stored with your Will. As it is possible that the trustees would need to take action with the animals, within a short space of time following the testators death. Any such letter of wishes is not a compulsory document, like your Will. You could say as an example ' if my trustees feel that my animals are in need of treatment and it is considered that any such treatment would not be beneficial, they can use their discretion to PTS on veterinary advice'
You would of course chose wording to suit your particular circumstances / requirements.
If putting such a trust in a Will, you need to ensure that there would be sufficient funds in it and also that when the trust ends ( when there are no more animals ) that the funds are directed to a beneficiary or charity etc.
Of course the letter of wishes can be updated at any time if circumstances / animals change , without it affecting your Will, and the need to redo it.
I hope that helps.
 
Meredith said:
Putting this here as I'm not sure where it may or may not be relevant or of interest to anyone.
Not being familiar with Amorous Archie's age, is it possible this gelding is by him?

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Archie died in 2021 iirc, but there was a few straws of frozen I think
He was truly a phenomenal horse so if that mare is by him she's a steal. The owner is on Facebook and you could ask though, I think she is aware of most/if not all of his offsprings' whereabouts.
 
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