Indiscriminate breeding/cull happening right here in the UK

Natch

Natch

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 November 2007
Messages
11,616
Visit site
I have just received an email from a horsey contact. I think its important to share because of the discussions that have been going on on here regarding rescuing horses from the Irish cull. Its a problem here too.

This is an extract of the email:

After a long discussion, the decision has been made that this years Dartmoor Pony weaned foals should be culled due to the recession. This is a very hard and brave decision for the pony keeper that I support and work with. Some farmers are still breeeding 100-150 foals a year which will give you an idea of the problem. These will go to market in October, suffer the stress of transport, suffer the stress of the market environment, wont be sold, then taken home and shot. The seriousness of the over breeding cannot be over stressed.
Click to expand...

Now, I don't know statistics, but there have got to be a fair few Dartmoor pony farmers - breeding 100-150 foals a year - a fair few times 100 - thats a heck of a lot of little lives being created and then destroyed or who face at best an uncertain future.

When is the indiscriminate and quantity breeding going to stop? Surely everyone must see that its better not to create the life at all than to put it to the consequences these horses are facing.

I suppose I am facing a warning or ban for saying this, but next time you look abroad for a rescue horse - maybe look a little closer to home?
 
This doesn't surprise me.

We had a post on here last year wanting rescue homes for about 9 dartmoor hill ponies and I offered a home. When I was contacted again I was asked to pay the farmer £40 before collecting the pony. I wrote back and said no because I don't want to encourage him breeding again. The charity didn't get back to me.

As I said in LN until the welfare of the horse is put before the welfare of their back accounts nothing will change.
 
These would be the DHP's that roam the moors..alot are inbred, have conformation problems..roach back being the most prevalent..and are quite tiny compared to a Pure Dartmoor Pony.

i'm not surprised they are being culled TBH..Infact they should all be taken off the Moors until those Farmers that own them, set up a decent breeding programme..similar to that in the New Forest

It's similar problem as Dairy Bull calves..no one wants colts.
 
I would happily recue one - i would need transport so they could get money from me for that but if this is the situation i wouldn't be paying anything for the pony!!
Its horrible to think that they let them breed and then shoot them.......why not just geld them??????
Whats does it cost nowadays?!?!?
Less than shooting them i think!!!!!! :mad:
 
SirenaXVI said:
Well done for posting this Naturally, if you get warned/banned then it is an total disgrace!

Perhaps people will now realise why we have been banging on about charity beginning at home!
Click to expand...
/

Ditto!

It amazes and saddens me the number of adverts for in-foal mares there are where the reason for sale is 'change in circumstances/finances/loss ogf grazing'. Do people never look ahead?
 
Crackajack said:
I would happily recue one - i would need transport so they could get money from me for that but if this is the situation i wouldn't be paying anything for the pony!!
Its horrible to think that they let them breed and then shoot them.......why not just geld them??????
Whats does it cost nowadays?!?!?
Less than shooting them i think!!!!!! :mad:
Click to expand...

£160 to geld.....
£30 to passport and chip

£20 to shoot
:(:(
 
Myself and a friend set up the Dartmoor Pony Training Centre in 2005 to help these ponies, we take on those unsold and those people can’t cope with then train and re-home them. Most importantly we also try to work with the farmers to promote them as much as possible and to see if we can help change things. - change has to come from the inside and if you go in there all guns blazing all you get is resentment. Luckily a few are on board

Sadly there have been subsidies for certain dartmoors bred that just don’t sell - one breeder said it's ridiculous she has to use a bay stallion and breed the bays to get the subsidy, she doesn't want to as the coloureds can be sold, what she breeds can't but she gets more money from the subsidy for breeding an unwanted foal. Luckily she is a nice person and does her best to find them good homes one way or another - sadly many are in the same position who do not care what happens to the offspring

And sadly we are fighting against attitudes such as “I’d rather keep breeding the ponies and shoot them at birth” and “I’d rather keep breeding the ponies and shoot them than see them go to any do gooders”, and so the comments go on.

We work with a couple of very good contentious farmers who are gradually cutting down their herds sadly the majority will not.

Personally I would rather see a cull than see these foals weaned on market day, put through a sale then taken on live transport across the country and to Europe, a quick short death is far better than those horrors.

We used to take on every unsold foal but now that is in it hundreds it is impossible (I would hasten to add we do not bid at markets, the farmers make no money from us taking the foals they just simply are rid of them).

Unfortunately we are full to the brim and cannot take any more at the moment.

The answer is a solution to stop the indiscriminate breeding, a subsidy for each foal not born would be a good start!

I was advised last year over 200 went to the incinerator without even going to market. You will find few bay colts these days at the markets as they do not sell – what happens to them….?! Coloureds were the in thing for a while but that is fading and more spotties are appearing for the time being but again soon no doubt there will be too many of them as everyone jumps on the band wagon.

There are too many bred of poor quality. If the farmers breed good quality and kept them until they were two years or so then they would get just as much for one pony as they would 5.

One of the farmers we work with has castrated his geldings this year, in the past the farmers say they don’t do this as they won’t wander as much – It’s all an excuse to stick with tradition and this farmer has stuck his neck out against them all so fingers crossed his way will prove good

www.dptc.org.uk
http://www.dartmoorhillpony.com/
 
This will sound very harsh but I can't actually see any other way.....

If the owner/farmers of these ponies for a year or two had to foot the bill of euthanasing and disposing of the foals then surely they would have to implement some sort of restriction to the breeding, if they are getting no income from it and it's costing them, then why would they continue.

On the other hand if the plight of these foals is publised and people jump to help if they pay anything for a foal then the farmer is still getting money and will continue and the same problem will be here next year and the year after.

I seriously feel for the foals but unless restrictions are going to be put on the farmers by the authorities I believe a cull paid for by the breeders/farmers is a way forward to make them responsible.

Sorry again if it's harsh.
 
This was the offical info sent out and as you can see its not colts they are rehoming its filly's they are planning on giving away.


''After a long discussion, the decision has been made that this years Dartmoor Pony weaned foals should be culled due to the recession. This is a very hard and brave decision for the pony keeper that I support and work with. Some farmers are still breeeding 100-150 foals a year which will give you an idea of the problem. These will go to market in October, suffer the stress of transport, suffer the stress of the market environment, wont be sold, then taken home and shot. The seriousness of the over breeding cannot be over stressed.

Should you want a filly foal or two, they would be handled, have head collars on, and you can have them for nothing. If you have no transport, transport can be provided. Alternatively they make lovely companions until they are old enough to back.

If you are interested, please contact me on 0789 978 1172 newlifehorsecare@googlemail.com

Jackie
Founder Member DPHT''
 
Crackajack said:
I would happily recue one - i would need transport so they could get money from me for that but if this is the situation i wouldn't be paying anything for the pony!!
Its horrible to think that they let them breed and then shoot them.......why not just geld them??????
Whats does it cost nowadays?!?!?
Less than shooting them i think!!!!!! :mad:
Click to expand...

Gelding is A LOT nore than shootibg and still does't solve the problem of the ponies ongoing welfare.
 
abigail621 said:
This was the offical info sent out and as you can see its not colts they are rehoming its filly's they are planning on giving away.


''After a long discussion, the decision has been made that this years Dartmoor Pony weaned foals should be culled due to the recession. This is a very hard and brave decision for the pony keeper that I support and work with. Some farmers are still breeeding 100-150 foals a year which will give you an idea of the problem. These will go to market in October, suffer the stress of transport, suffer the stress of the market environment, wont be sold, then taken home and shot. The seriousness of the over breeding cannot be over stressed.

Should you want a filly foal or two, they would be handled, have head collars on, and you can have them for nothing. If you have no transport, transport can be provided. Alternatively they make lovely companions until they are old enough to back.

If you are interested, please contact me on 0789 978 1172 newlifehorsecare@googlemail.com

Jackie
Founder Member DPHT''
Click to expand...

As I said, no-one wants Colts
 
Naturally said:
Surely everyone must see that its better not to create the life at all than to put it to the consequences these horses are facing.
Click to expand...

The problem is, people are too motivated by greed and if they think they can make money from this, they will no doubt try.

It's so sad and I don't know why people do it, but I guess the same could be said for individuals who's horses are broken in some way and they breed from the mare, "because she'd make a great Mum" - sorry but that's just not good enough!
 
:eek:
Sorry - i never thought it would be that cheap to shoot a pony!!
:eek::(
I would want a colt - why do they not want colts??
How would i get a colt and how much would it cost?
Can somebody PM please?? :D
 
Crackajack said:
:eek:
Sorry - i never thought it would be that cheap to shoot a pony!!
:eek::(
I would want a colt - why do they not want colts??
How would i get a colt and how much would it cost?
Can somebody PM please?? :D
Click to expand...

If you take a colt on you have to be able to keep it where it can't get at the mares and pay for castration which normally is £100- £200 depending on the vet so people do not want the added hassle and cost.

I woud contact the person (Jackie) at Newlife - I am sure they could get colts too, they really aren't hard to come by!

There are some breeders out there who will give them away too but some who would rather shoot than give them away

We have a few coming back from conservation grazing in October but we can only home in the Devon area and they would remain our ponies.
 
I read this in shock, I have two of these scaby inbred poor conformation ponies, I will be the first person to say they are b...dy hard work but worth every penny they cost.
yes too many of them are born each year, but if you want a pony which is loving and caring that is what you get.


oh and just on a side note I show mine, they always get placed 1st or 2nd always above the reg ponies the section a b or c oh not forgetting the highlands or the spotties, why you may wonder because they have the best conformation, dressage paces to die for. So before you knock these animals dont place them all in the same boat.

also the small one of the two will stand with d2 if she has hurt herself, or crying.

rant over


if you can help one please do, just remember they are hard work and by god they cant half jump !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Look how awful they turn out
rot.jpg

jump4.jpg

tigs2-Copy.jpg

IMAG0529.jpg
 
bugbee717 said:
I read this in shock, I have two of these scaby inbred poor conformation ponies, I will be the first person to say they are b...dy hard work but worth every penny they cost.
yes too many of them are born each year, but if you want a pony which is loving and caring that is what you get.


oh and just on a side note I show mine, they always get placed 1st or 2nd always above the reg ponies the section a b or c oh not forgetting the highlands or the spotties, why you may wonder because they have the best conformation, dressage paces to die for. So before you knock these animals dont place them all in the same boat.

also the small one of the two will stand with d2 if she has hurt herself, or crying.

rant over


if you can help one please do, just remember they are hard work and by god they cant half jump !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

They are really wonderful ponies with great temprements, sadly too many take them on unhandled with no clue as to how to start handling them which is where we offer a lot of advice and help where we can and also run a course once a year around the time of the sales to encourage people to learn first!

There are some ponies bred with poor confirmation and the breeding should be checked so there aren't so many and the best are what is bred. But the smaler ponies do have their place too and make fabulous kids leid rein ponies, they can easily be a kids best friend.
 
I will go very much against the grain here and say nothing bar a proper, registered pure bred Dartmoor pony should ever be allowed to be bred on Dartmoor, the same goes for Exmoor and the New Forest. There should be a cull of all the rubbish that has been bred for more than a few years especially those coloured and spotties; they are not Dartmoor ponies and many of them are so in bred and have conformation faults that they are a disgrace to the person that bred them. Until the authorities clamp down on what is allowed to roam and breed on the moors this situation will get a lot worse.
 
Few (if any) Pure breds aren't on the moor any way, breeders of them are too worried about harm coming to them or being got at by the wrong stallion. If any are on the moors they are generally in enclosed new takes

If you look at the history of Dartmoor it has always been a mismatch out on the moor, Henry VIII tried culling them all as they were under 14hh, arab and welsh blood was introduced too,

There are good quality spotties ancoloureds out there, what is the difference between breeding for what is in demand now than in the days when they added arab and welsh to the gene pool to do the same? Dartmoors have always been bred for what is in demand at the time. The hill pony was around way before the registered Dartmoors and I'd like to see some of them withstand life high on the hills!

I by no means dislike the registered, I just believe there is a place for both, and part of the issue we have now is down to breeding more and more bays to make SR1 & 2s to introduce more bloodlines for the registered ponies resulting in many more unwanted bay foals along the line. These are quality but still no one wants them.

Friends of the Dartmoor Hill Pony Website:
This was the beginning of the Registered Dartmoor pony breed.

The foundation stock, according to records, included Hackney, Thoroughbred, Welsh, Arab, Exmoor and even a Fell, all in the search for that elusive “quality”. Judicious crossing soon demonstrated what could be achieved.

In 1918, a mare called Blackdown (sire; a carriage horse, dam; a native Dartmoor Hill pony) had a foal by an imported Arab stallion called Dwarka, 14.1 hands high. This foal was bought by Sylvia Calmady-Hamlyn and was called “The Leat”. He had a quarter Dartmoor Hill pony blood. He was registered in the Dartmoor stud book despite a resolution forbidding judges to pass any pony with more than a quarter arab thoroughbred or hackney blood!

The Leat was aptly named as his blood flows in the veins of virtually every single successful Registered Dartmoor pony in the years that followed, right up to the present day. In “The Dartmoor Pony, a history of the breed” by Joseph Palmer, he says “He was of course the supreme example of the uncertainty of breeding.” (Page 38).

By 1925, the Dartmoor Pony Society had formed, and the type was established. Sylvia Calmady-Hamlyn used a Welsh stallion, Dinarth Spark, on a mare called Juliet IV. The resultant stallion, Jude, became a prolific sire and model for the Registered Dartmoor Pony of today.

No longer another Native running wild on the Moor, it was a recognised and properly recorded breed, with qualities governed by man.
The selective line breeding under expert and dedicated direction has created our beautiful and versatile Registered Dartmoor Pony of today.
Breeding for purpose

Why the Native Hill Pony was still valuable.

The mining industry found the native Dartmoors incredibly useful, and crossed them with Shetland ponies nationwide working underground, and there was a good market for Dartmoor Hill ponies.

The farming industry required a sturdy weight-carrying pony, so ponies who were strong and had good depth of bone were chosen as breeding stock.
The introduction of polo as a sport saw a new role for the Hill pony, and they were crossed with arabs and thoroughbreds to produce the athletic pony needed for the sport.

In current times, its job is as a tool of ecology keeping Dartmoor as we know and love it. Stock is chosen specifically with hardiness and ability to thrive on Dartmoor, although as there is a strong requirement under current market forces to produce coloured and spotty ponies, our foundation stock now includes coloured and spotty stallions and even cobs and arabs. This evolution merely carries on with the ancient traditions of breeding for purpose and adapting to market changes.
 
Daily I drive across Dartmoor, this year I have noticed a lot less ponies, better quaility ponies, and also some of the geldings. The foals that I have seen have mostly been bay and true to breed which is nice to see. So the work that the www.dptc.org.uk
http://www.dartmoorhillpony.com/ is doing is starting to work, but I guess somtimes you must think your banging your head up against a brick wall.
 
A dartmoor and a dartmoor hill pony are not the same thing simple, it it time that these ponies, the dartmoor hill pony have the respect and people should understand the difference between them.

Just because they are sold cheap does not make them a lesser pony, i have a warmblood which I got from a breeder who breeds 30 of them a year, she can not sell them, but what makes them any better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top