Indiscriminate Breeding

What do you class as indiscriminate breeding, because some would say anything that does not have a pedigree. If that is the case then I am one because twice now I have breed from a mare with no papers. The 1st went on to grade with the then HIS & her daughter is in the head stud book. My 2nd has produced a useful looking colt but he is a bit young to know how well he is going to perform. What he does have is a nice balanced canter, a good walk & a bold attitude to life. My mare happens to have a great temperment, lots of character & can happily go round most of MKEC's novice course. Her compeition CV is a bit light, but that is due to my work commitments not her lack of ability.

If you are on about the person who uses their mare with a non discript cheap stallion because there is nothing else to do with the mare & they cant afford to use a decent stallion, well I dont think they make up enough of the horse population to worry about, not now. I think most people make a real effort to chose the right stallion for their mare & try to improve on her as best they can. I see far more decent looking youngsters then I say did in the 80's, so I think there have been real improvements on peoples attitudes to breeding.
 
Pedigree or not people out there are breeding indiscriminately
and not thinking of the concequences , i suppose im really talking about the breeding en mass of foals that go to the auctions only to end up in the abbattoir.
A guy near me has bred 35 foals this year alone looking for the "perfect" one most of which have ended up in auctions. Its far too easy to "stick them in foal" and cross your fingers.
I think mares too should be vetted just like a stallion has to be, before being allowed to breed from her.
 
I also bred from a mare with no known pedigree, she had been graded on performance, and had a long performance history. She produced a foal who won two first premiums, one at the BEF Futurity and one at the SPSS show.

On the other hand, the other foal on our yard was bred from a riding mare with an iffy temprement, by a stallion who was loaned to the mares owners for a while. He covered 3 mares and only got one in foal. I don't think he has ever been graded or assessed, nor do I think he has a full pedigree.

Which do you class as indescriminate?
 
Many years ago the Princess Royal commented on this very subject. She bemoaned the fact that if a mare was no good for anything else then she could be used as a brood mare.
 
Would i breed from a mare with an "iffy" ( i take that as meaning dangerous ) temprement..... No
Would i ever use an unlicenced stallion...... No

I think all horses / ponies should pass a vetting before being bred from.
We licence stallions well why not a brood mare ?
Maybe we wouldnt see so many youngsters going to the abbattoir.
And maybe just maybe the value of horses will increase ,
you can buy a foal for peanuts today they are worthless compared to the price of puppies.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Many years ago the Princess Royal commented on this very subject. She bemoaned the fact that if a mare was no good for anything else then she could be used as a brood mare.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder if she`d say the same today ???
 
Neither of my mares have been for grading but they both have excellent bloodlines and come from top stallions and mares. I would not consider breeding from them indiscriminate.
 
Suby - Sorry by iffy I ment some days she is fine, other days she blows her brain completely, and gets herself is such a state she either freezes and doesn't move for up to an hour or throws herself around in a paddy. Theres no predicting which way she will go on which days...!!!

Having said that, the foal they have will make them a nice enough day to day riding horse, it will never win anything but all they do is hack so does it matter that its not a perfect world beater? It has a better temprement than its mother it seems.
 
i have one mare who is graded british warmblood, but has never been broken or shown but she is well bred and has produced a graded stallion and two lovely show quality fillies, my others have competed highly in competition and i have one mare loaned to me that has qualified manys times for hoys. but i did also have a mare that was well bred, young rode super but had some injury that made her walk like a drunk person and had a temp that made her evil, if she got you in the field she would have seriously hurt you. i made the decision to have her pts. many people would have put her in foal and put her out of the way from people, but it would have been a matter of time before she hurt someone.
 
Best shoot me now!!

My stallion is ungraded... but very well bred, he may be taken to a grading next year or may stay ungraded!

One broodmare is unknown breeding.... but bought with a foal at foot to an ungraded stallion, foal is now 4 and very nice. She has another foal at foot to a graded stallion and is in foal again for next year to another graded stallion!

The other broodmare is well bred but never proven, as she got an injury and can't be ridden. She had a cracking foal this year to a graded stallion but is now in foal for next year to my ungraded stallion!!!

I would like to think that I am not breeding indescrimitely though as we are breeding for a type and we ensure that we are breeding for conformation and temperament and suitability for the job!!
 
We licence stallions well why not a brood mare ? - For one thing a mare can only produce 1 foal a year even if she produced at 3 to 25 that is 22 foals, a lot granted, but nothing compared to how many a stallion can produce. And that is if she never missed a year. Also if my mare cant impregnate another horse, therefore she does not carry the same liability as a stallion. Furthermore though they are entire most mares are easier to deal with even by an inexperienced person, the said cant is said of colts/stallions. What is wrong with the by product going for meat, so long as it has not been mistreated, what is different, we except that cows have to produce calfs to supply us with milk. What do you suppose happens to them ! Where would you draw the line, because I see far more unwanted dogs & cats how about starting with them first. If someone came up to me & said sorry your mare is un-papered you cant breed from her I would tell them exactly what they could do. I don’t think it is that big an issue as most people do not have a herd of mares out in the field with some un reg stallion running with them, most people cant afford to breed indicrimantly. I think there are far more concerning issues then the odd person breeding for the meat market.
 
I think we'd all struggle with the thought of our horses going for meat, but you are right, there is no differernce between a horse, sheep, cow, deer, pigs etc being raised for the meat market so long as they are treated humanely!
OK there is no meat market (other than animal food one) in the UK but there certainly is abroad!

In fact in the dairy farms a lot of male calves are despatched at birth, due to the fact the holstein and fresians are natually a very lean breed therefore the male calves will never mature to be beefy enough to financially viable as a beef bullock. OK yes some are raise as rose veal calves like on Gordon Ramsays show but there aren't many!! Imagine doing that to your foal just because it wasn't the right sex....!!!

I don't agree with people breeding from mares or stallions that have bad conformation or temperament but as for grading, I can see the advantages but sometimes good horses will slip though as they aren't shown well at the grading, or some of the panel may not like a particular type even though it is a good horse in it own right just not for that studbook!
 
My grip was being told that mares ought to be licensed before they can have a foal. Or maybe I read that incorrectly, but I dont see the sense of that at all, because where are you going to draw the line. Also who is going to determine what mare can have a licence & which cant bearing in mind that at some point all mares will have been bred from licensed stock, thereby implying you are only breeding from the best therefore they should only be producing the best. As I said I dont see it as a problem on the scale of surplus dogs & cats. I would suggest we sort that issue out then look at the equine market. I am sorry if I sound harsh but the majority of people are quiet sensible so why should they suffer for the minority, after all licensing is just another cost at the end of the day. A good stallion can make that money, how is the mare owner with 1 foal a year going to justify it. So we cut back on breeding, maybe that would not be a bad thing, as anything in short supply holds its value. Except there will always be someone exploting it.
 
I read the OP's further explanation as more what most of us would do anyway - "vet" the mare for breeding - ie check for reproductive soundness and conformational issues.

But I think the OP is preaching to the converted as everyone here can justify the "why they have used a mare/stallion."

None of us on here (I think) would advocate breeding an unpapered mare with severe behavioral and conformational problems but some out there would - just for the sake of it. Thats what the OP was saying should be stopped?

Not me breeding from my unpapered TB x - as conformationally she is fine, temperament is excellent and she's a fab competition mare for things like WHP/SHP and PC/RC eventing etc.

However had she been a chronic laminitic with a bad habit in cow kicks to the owner, not up to much as a riding horse and with lameness issues caused by poor conformation - I like to think you'd all shoot me for suggesting breeding from her if I was stupid enough to think of it!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top