Indoor or outdoor arena?

[05jackd]

We have been continuing the arena at home discussion and I now have a few options and I just do not know what will be best.

I only have small horses - nothing bigger than 15.1hh and I do not really jump so just for fittening and dressage.

Now the options:

1 ) We have a 11x25m shed that I could put a surface in and ride tomorrow. Already got very high quality lights.

2 ) Extend the shed to 16m x35m - currently in discussion as to what this would cost but I am worried this will still be a bit small and this is the maximum I could do in the space provided.

3) Build a 20x40m outdoor arena from scratch. We would loose a bit of grazing and I suspect would not get lights in the planning permission so would have to manage with the farm flood lights this would light maybe half?

Cost is a big consideration. I have costed out an outdoor and doing it through a drainage company and buying all the materials ourselves - and also not fencing. I hope we could do it for about 18k. Obviously with the indoor there is no drainage and only surface / shed extension to cost.

What would you do?

 

[webble]

Given the winter we have just had if you can financially stretch to it and get planning I would go for the indoor, ideally with some sort of ventilation option

 

[SEL]

I've never wanted an indoor as much as this winter!!

I'd go for the 16 x 35 myself.

 

[reynold]

Whilst an indoor school would be lovely it's not the construction costs you have to worry about but the ongoing 'non-domestic' rates you will be asked to pay.

Check on voa.gov.uk for the 'non-domestic' rates payable on indoor schools in your area (often referred to as 'business' rates). They can be over £10k p.a.

If you are basically a private property atm and not a business already then even if the local authority grant you pp for a school it may well come with the condition that it is solely for your use and cannot be rented out by the hour to 'friends' to cover some of the costs.

Even with an outdoor school you will need pp and this will bring your property to the attention of the local authority. Hence you may well end up paying non-domestic rates on an outdoor arena by the m2 unless the development is classed as being 'within the curtilage of your dwelling' - i.e. your garden.

Good luck

 

[blitznbobs]

Indoor every time 16 x 35 is enough and you could hire an arena if you needed to do more and ride in a field in the summer

18k seems very cheap so check your stone delivery costs carefully unless you live next door to a quarry , or you are skimping on stone, stone cost is likely to take you well over 18k

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would go for the bigger indoor.ive got small horses that would be fine for me.

 

[05jackd]

Whilst an indoor school would be lovely it's not the construction costs you have to worry about but the ongoing 'non-domestic' rates you will be asked to pay.

Check on voa.gov.uk for the 'non-domestic' rates payable on indoor schools in your area (often referred to as 'business' rates). They can be over £10k p.a.

If you are basically a private property atm and not a business already then even if the local authority grant you pp for a school it may well come with the condition that it is solely for your use and cannot be rented out by the hour to 'friends' to cover some of the costs.

Even with an outdoor school you will need pp and this will bring your property to the attention of the local authority. Hence you may well end up paying non-domestic rates on an outdoor arena by the m2 unless the development is classed as being 'within the curtilage of your dwelling' - i.e. your garden.

Good luck

We are a farm business at the moment and live onsite. There is a mind boggling amount of hoops to jump through!

 

[Identityincrisis]

While I would love an indoor, i would opt for the bigger outdoor, I personally (maybe I’m spoilt?!) think that is the minimum size to be effective. I just wrap up in an Equidry and crack on

 

[MuddyMonster]

I think I'd go bigger but outdoors, out of the choice of options. But I don't much donning waterproofs or getting blown about a bit.

If you are more fair weather rider (nothing wrong with that at all - no judgement here!) indoors might be more beneficial.

 

[05jackd]

Indoor every time 16 x 35 is enough and you could hire an arena if you needed to do more and ride in a field in the summer

18k seems very cheap so check your stone delivery costs carefully unless you live next door to a quarry , or you are skimping on stone, stone cost is likely to take you well over 18k

I have budgeted on 220T of stone. Our quarry is very reasonable at £20 a Ton delivered but of course we might need more when it comes to it.

 

[ihatework]

Outdoor arena and adapt the current indoor area for lunge/walker/treadmill/dry turnout lot.

Reason being that the narrowness of the indoor will be very limiting under saddle and also being indoor you might need a more expensive surface if it's not to become dry/deep/unstable.

 

[Gloi]

I used to keep mine on a stud with an indoor about the size of your current one. I have never had such well balanced ponies as when I was there. It was also great for loose schooling and the owners would put up jumps on each long side and train their showjumpers in there.
I'd stick with that and put up an outdoor. It will probably be less complicated.

 

[Squeak]

I'd go for the outdoor. Unless it's pouring with rain, I prefer an outdoor even in winter and in summer an indoor can just be stifling.

 

[Polos Mum]

I would think about how often you ride at night / in the pouring rain.
If you have the option of flexible working and can ride in the day most of the time - lights is irrelevant

Are you a hobby rider or is it essential that you ride in all weathers - how key is the roof ?

Are your horses young / old that might struggle with tight turns in narrow indoor.

What is the cost of an indoor appropriate surface? I've not personally researched these but out local indoor is constantly watering to make it usable / not too dusty and it rides horribly in a couple of the corners.
Maintenance of an indoor might be more than you expect.
If you have to spend 2 hours with a hose pipe before every ride that might make the appeal of an indoor less.

 

[05jackd]

I would think about how often you ride at night / in the pouring rain.
If you have the option of flexible working and can ride in the day most of the time - lights is irrelevant

Are you a hobby rider or is it essential that you ride in all weathers - how key is the roof ?

Are your horses young / old that might struggle with tight turns in narrow indoor.

What is the cost of an indoor appropriate surface? I've not personally researched these but out local indoor is constantly watering to make it usable / not too dusty and it rides horribly in a couple of the corners.
Maintenance of an indoor might be more than you expect.
If you have to spend 2 hours with a hose pipe before every ride that might make the appeal of an indoor less.

All good questions. I work 8-5 in the winter so there is no opportunity to ride during the day. I am not a professional rider but do compete alot.

Horses are all under 15.1 but range in age from 4- 16 years.

The indoor surface needs alot more research - I ride in a good indoor a couple of times a month at the moment and it has a great surface. No watering system there so I would be keen to try and replicate this - it is a vey old surface though. My handy other half does think he could put in a watering system fairly easily if needed.

 

[Abacus]

You could even use a simple garden sprinkler which would save time on hosing by hand.

That said I am another of those preferring an outdoor arena, although I do ride during the day. I've always found indoors can be spooky and noisy, especially older barn conversions rather than big light modern buildings.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I would think it's important to not get so focused on indoor vs outdoor, and the size differences, that you forget the other 2 questions, about potentially losing some grazing, and the light question.

Do you have so much grazing @05jackd that it won't make much difference if you lose a rectangular shape out of your grazing to an outdoor arena? If your horses could choose, I presume they would prefer to have more grazing, and a smaller arena, than the other way around.

Regardless whether the weather is bad or good outside during Winter, the only thing you know for certain is that it will be more hours of darkness outside. Since you work 8-5, and therefore ends up needing to ride during the darker hours in Winter, I presume the question about light might be more or less as important as the actual size of the arena.
If you don't get permission to add lights to an outdoor arena, then presumably e.g. riding in the light of a head torch is always an option. You're the only one who can anwer if you're completely okay with that option, or if you actually would prefer to be able to add as much lights as you can afford to pay the electricity bills for, in a smaller indoor arena instead.

 

[ycbm]

Assuming this is a steel frame barn, then I would think about extending the barn surface to 16x34 but take two walls down and leave the roof where it is, (padding the supporting legs of course) so that you can have a nice airy space for summer and a protected one in winter, and also because I understand that barns without walls don't attract the same rates.
.

 

[05jackd]

Assuming this is a steel frame barn, then I would think about extending the barn surface to 16x34 but take two walls down and leave the roof where it is, (padding the supporting legs of course) so that you can have a nice airy space for summer and a protected one in winter, and also because I understand that barns without walls don't attract the same rates.
.

That's interesting - not sure how that would work with the surface potentially blowing away but I am open to ideas!

 

[05jackd]

I would think it's important to not get so focused on indoor vs outdoor, and the size differences, that you forget the other 2 questions, about potentially losing some grazing, and the light question.

Do you have so much grazing @05jackd that it won't make much difference if you lose a rectangular shape out of your grazing to an outdoor arena? If your horses could choose, I presume they would prefer to have more grazing, and a smaller arena, than the other way around.

Regardless whether the weather is bad or good outside during Winter, the only thing you know for certain is that it will be more hours of darkness outside. Since you work 8-5, and therefore ends up needing to ride during the darker hours in Winter, I presume the question about light might be more or less as important as the actual size of the arena.
If you don't get permission to add lights to an outdoor arena, then presumably e.g. riding in the light of a head torch is always an option. You're the only one who can anwer if you're completely okay with that option, or if you actually would prefer to be able to add as much lights as you can afford to pay the electricity bills for, in a smaller indoor arena instead.

We could manage without the grazing as we have another 5 acres rented to sheep that could come back for the ponies if needed but ideally not.

We have flood lights on the farm now that would light approximately half of the proposed outdoor arena but not to the same level as the indoor lights. I am not actually sure what the barn lights use but definitely not an exorbitant amount.

 

[zoejking]

What did you build in the end?

 

[Mari]

We have been continuing the arena at home discussion and I now have a few options and I just do not know what will be best.

I only have small horses - nothing bigger than 15.1hh and I do not really jump so just for fittening and dressage.

Now the options:

1 ) We have a 11x25m shed that I could put a surface in and ride tomorrow. Already got very high quality lights.

2 ) Extend the shed to 16m x35m - currently in discussion as to what this would cost but I am worried this will still be a bit small and this is the maximum I could do in the space provided.

3) Build a 20x40m outdoor arena from scratch. We would loose a bit of grazing and I suspect would not get lights in the planning permission so would have to manage with the farm flood lights this would light maybe half?

Cost is a big consideration. I have costed out an outdoor and doing it through a drainage company and buying all the materials ourselves - and also not fencing. I hope we could do it for about 18k. Obviously with the indoor there is no drainage and only surface / shed extension to cost.

What would you do?

Our last place had a building 50’ x 100’ with a concrete floor. We put a load of sand down, sorry can’t remember type or weight, & as our 4 horses were on shavings we used to skip out the stables putting the muck on a muck heap & the wet shavings went on top of the sand & got raked in. It worked brilliantly.