Indoor Schools - a question learned friends

AdorableAlice

AdorableAlice

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I accompanied a friend to a lesson recently. The spacious indoor was part of a riding school set up and used by the school, liveries and for outside bookings. We were part of an outside clinic booking.

The surface was fibre/black sand/rubber and in need of levelling, the outside track had piled up knee deep on the boards. I sat there in the gallery watching the lesson and thinking non of the motley crew of horses were going well despite the work ony being prelim level flat work and trot poles to a cross pole. Then it dawned on me that the sound the horses were making was odd.

After the lesson had finished and no one was looking ! I had a walk round the school, the centre of the school had maybe 2cm of surface which I moved with my foot and found smooth shiny concrete. I did some more digging at the edges and under the 2 feet of banked up surface was again concrete.

I know surfaces are put down on concrete, Hoys at the NEC for instance with it's superb Martin Collins surface, but surely it cannot be common practice to chuck a few truck loads of fibre/rubber into a building and call it a school can it ? I was absolutely horrified and relieved my friend on her very green 4 year old had not come off.

Before we go anywhere else we will be making sure the surface is right in the future, no doubt we all hire a school and think we are on a safe surface but are we.
 
I am very fussy about arena surfaces - nowt quicker than a rubbish surface to injure your horse - I would rather school in the field.

As to whether it is common practice to lay an indoor surface onto concrete, I really don't know, but you would imagine that this could be the case otherwise they would dry out and ride deep too quickly.
 
Good Gawd! Sounds like an accident waiting to happen! Did you say anything to the proprietor? I too am pretty fussy about surfaces and, moreover the levelling / maintenance of them... the number of people who expect their horses to work well in the foot deep ditch that is worn around the perimeter of many an arena is incredible!!
 
About seven years ago mine and a friends horse fell over at a yard we was at, it's now a very big comp centre locally, indoor school and cut themselves......the sand had moved so much that it exposed the concrete underneath.

We complained and was told to have lessons as we obviously couldn't ride and it's limestone not concrete underneath.

Wasn't until a high pro file client had the same thing happen that they topped up the schools.
 
a local DIY yard has similar- essentially it is just an old barn, in the past it has just made the bottom section of arena very compact and very slippy as it also got little care... So it does happen but I wouldn't ride on one!

this was quite a rough and ready place though and it sounds like yours was part of a bigger outfit by far.
 
OWLIE185 said:
Indoor arenas should be built like an outdoor arena. Having concrete underneath is bad news.
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That is what I thought. However there seems to be schools that started life as an industrial/factory unit premises that are being used as equine facilities. I think the HSE is the best route to go down.
 
I am surprised the instructor did not notice, if it was that thin that the horses were making an odd sound as they went through it, jumping on that is potentially lethal, heath and safety would have to be involved if there was an accident, the insurance company may wriggle out of paying if the facility was not up to standard, running as a RS you would expect it to be maintained for safety reasons.

The worst thing I saw in an indoor was one with no interior boarding so the metal stanchions were exposed and within the riding area, the thought of someone having a fall head first into them would have put me off yet it passed the LA inspections to be used as a RS.
 
Unfortunately I think it is becoming more and more common. An "equestrian centre" opened up near to us, and I was so excited thinking I could finally start getting out and about, but the indoor is in an old tractor storage unit with yep, concrete underneath. To me the risk is just not worth it. Yet liveries still use it and think its amazing. They will be first to try to sue when something happens

A number of years ago there was a local public arena with woodchip on top of concrete. A rider had a huge accident as they went round a corner, horse slipped and landed on top of rider. She was badly injured, in fact I'm not sure if she was paralysed and the horse PTS. I know she got a HUGE pay out, Thankfully the arena has now been removed and all that is left is the concrete base.

Its people just basically trying to do things as cheap as possible and not thinking about the horses welfare.
 
There's an indoor arena near us, which was converted from an industrial unit. (It was a shavings manufacturing plant, and I used to take my trailer in it to load up!). The surface they have down now actually rides very well, so maybe an appropriate surface on concrete could work ok? I'm afraid I don't know what the surface is, it looks rather ordinary but rides like springy old turf.

Sand and rubber doesn't sound at all suitable for an indoor, though. Dry sand will always be very deep. The only indoor with sand and rubber I know of has an extensive irrigation system to keep it rideable. It's awful if it hasn't recently had the sprinklers on, but never to the extent of revealing the base.
 
And I presume your friend paid for the privilege of riding on this 'surface', AA.

I really dislike artificial surfaces, I am convinced that the advent of them has led to many more horses being diagnosed with conditions such as KS and SI problems. Admittedly, in the depths of winter, when the wind is howling and the precipitation, precipitating as it does on top of the Pennines, I often dream of being able to ride under cover but in reality, when the fields are unrideable, I think it is better to stick to hacking.
 
Surfaces in general are an unknown quantity. As far as I am aware there have been no studies into the various types of surface , periods of use & the effect riding/jumping on the various surfaces actually has on the joints in horses legs etc. One particular surface may be better to jump on or be better outside or indoors but no one knows the long term effect these surfaces have on horses. Sometime someone will do a scientific study & I expect the findings will be quite worrying. :(
 
There has been plenty of research into surfaces on joints, all published papers. When I'm on the pc, I'll post links. I also went to a lecture not so long back, very interesting.
 
It's perfectly ok to have a surface laid onto a hard surface .
In fact Tarmac which is water permeable is excellent ( but expensive ) for out door schools it's easy to level and there's no membrane to get damaged , no chance of the stones under the surface becoming uneven with the pressure of horses going round .
But the surface used must be appropriate for that task and it must must must be maintained properly which is where many places cut corners .
What the best surface is is complicated I think it depends what you are doing the be
doing surface for jumping huge fences at a show might not be the best surface for horses to work on everyday.
The best all singing and dancing surfaces now allow the centre to adjust the firmness according to what's going on in the school but again it will all down to the skill judgement and time allocated to the task by the people caring for it .
For the layman I think the research is clear care for your surface properly avoid riding on those that are not and vary the surface you ride on , I tend try to rotate grass road surface and the horses are rarely in the school in summer .
This is because I invested a few years ago in a grass working area .
We fenced off a flattish ( and it is ish ) rolled it and started to mow weekly with the garden tractor I started in summer I think in July by the next summer it was lightly usable by the next it was in good shape .
I don't use it in winter or just after heavy rain but it's a great thing to have and I wish I had done it years ago.
The main cost was the fence and the ongoing fuel cost for mowing and the did harrow and roll and my time and of course I lost the grazing .
I agree with the poster who said that the increased use of surfaced is driving the increase in some lameness types that where just not seen years ago .
But you have to be careful at one time navicular was linked to surface use but it is more likely that heavy surface use is often seem in horses receiving little of no turnout and that was what was driving the problem .
 
As GS says a good surface laid over a solid surface ie cocrete or tarmac is far preferable to one laid over stone that can move, the only reason limestone is used is because its a huge amount cheaper .
However what ever the substrate you cannot cut corners on surface maintenance and the best appear to be waxed surfaces of one type or another and their rideability can be altered relatively easily with the correct leveling and management . These surfaces tend to ride more consistent as the need for watering is taken out of the equation.
Give me the choice though and it would be grass all the time.
 
ester said:
If you water a surface on concrete do you not get a problem with the base holding water and becoming slippy?
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Not if it's done at an appropriate level and the surface is never allow to become to dry .
Because surfaces that get to dry become like the compost in dried out plant pots , you know what happens when you water a dried out plant the water runs straight through but if you add water to a slightly moist plant pot the compost takes up the water .
Also you must never allow some parts of a surface to become compacted and other bits loose this is an issue you often see in heavily used surface where a compacted track forms and enough time is not being spent caring for the surface .
 
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