Inflammation in legs after exercise?

[brightlights]

I have an eight year old mare with a strange pattern of leg swelling. About a year and a half ago, after a lesson on a new surface, one of her legs puffed up quite alarmingly the following day, and another two legs swole noticeably by day two. I was concerned about possible ligament/tendon damage, so we brought her to our orthopedic vet. Nothing showed up in flexion or on a circle/straight and the vet felt on palpation this was more likely a reaction to an additive in the surface.

We have not had any soundness issues, though she has not competed or worked overly hard (beyond normal flatwork/small jumps) since that episode. We have also been struggling to manage gastric issues with her for nearly the same period of time. Our well was contaminated last summer, and despite shocking the well and installing a filter, and finally, after no improvement, switching her to the reverse osmosis water from our house, her stomach has remained extremely sensitive. We have given her a custom probiotic, swapped her to a cereal free diet, and begun soaking her hay. All of this has brought her to a level where she appears generally comfortable, but still prone to loose droppings every now and then. I am probably going to put her on a course of Succeed now as I feel what we've done is a temporary fix. I mention this as it's an ongoing issue and I've noticed that her legs tend to stock up when her stomach is doing worse.

This week, I have noticed her front legs, one in particular, puffing up more than they had been for some time. Neither is sensitive to touch and not having what I would consider heat. But I have been surprised to find her legs tight and cool in the morning only to stock back up within minutes of exercise and increased blood flow. What the heck is going on? She doesn't seem off or lame or uncomfortable, but this is contrary to any prior experience I have. This is an outside of fetlock type of swelling (though not like suspensory branch swelling I've experienced in another horse), and while I have seen it sometimes with her in the morning (though not lately), I have never seen it suddenly appear after exercise.

Is it possible this is systemic inflammation made worse by warm weather/something in diet/ulcers? I would have thought a lymphatic issue would seem to resolve rather than appear after motion. Would swelling from soft tissue damage recur in this way after no obvious recent traumatic episode/injury? Would anyone have any thoughts/past experience with something like this? Trying to decide which vet to call this time

 

[Equi]

Is she ridden then immediately stabled?

 

[PurBee]

Here’s an article on limb swelling causes which may help narrow down your issue.

https://thehorse.com/181193/why-does-my-horse-have-a-fat-leg/

Its curious your water well contamination issue and she still has sensitive bowels and loose droppings. It’s possible these symptoms are linked to the limb swelling as they occurred around the same time, if im understanding you correctly.

Was she ever on anti-biotics after the water contamination discovery/loose stools?

Probiotics are great for stabilising/enhancing gut bacteria but won’t be able to kill off a potential systemic pathogenic infection.

I’m wondering if this happens after exercise due to there being an infection present, so the ‘weak’ blood vessels walls, due to infection, only upon metabolic activity, due to rapid heart pumping movement and heat generated via exercise, are then more prone to leaking their contents, causing immediate edema effects post exercise?

I’d get bloods drawn and tested for the main water borne infectious bacteria.
Just to rule that out.

She sounds too young to be going through kidney issues/edema type symptoms - but kidney health worth testing again with blood test. Have you noticed her drinking less/more? Urinating less/more?

If she’s not already on a mineral/vitamin balancer in addition to forage, i’d start on one - to get essential minerals like zinc, copper, selenium, vit A, vit E , vit D to provide the essential nutrients for the immune/liver/detox system to function properly. Also omega 3 oil/ground linseed.

The only other consideration worth probing is toxic plants, from the forage or from the grazing land. Is there anything youve not noticed growing thats toxic she’s consuming? Do you inspect your hay for toxic grasses/weeds?

My gelding had horrible edema from haylage that had lots of buttercups in it - lots of leaves and flowers. Theyre toxic to horses wet, but fine dried fully in hay - but in haylage they remain wet/toxic and he was ill for weeks with hives/oozing hives, then slight chest edema and changing lower leg edema. He didnt have much haylage as i stopped it as soon as symptoms appeared - within 24hrs - but he had around 10kg’s and him being young, 6ish then, his immune system went hell for leather at the toxin and really all the swelling was an over-active immune response. I changed forage obviously and upped minerals/vits/ detox supps, gave probiotics, anti-inflammatories and around 3 weeks the hives/edema healed. He was active and usual self, slight poop changes, but mostly edema was the worst symptom. I literally changed to a new mixed grass haylage - they’d been on a similar grasses but different haylage without buttercups so i could pinpoint the change/cause accurately.

I closely inspect all forage now, never feed generic pellets of grass/hay as they could be made of any mix of plants, unless specified/guaranteed. One major european forage supplier has recently confirmed to me in writing (!) they use a mix of hay (i was complaining about all the toxic plants in it) to make pellets from! That was their bizarre justification that the hay was ok...because they make pellets from it and sell the pellets. They succeed in selling toxic plants + hay in pellets and no-one knows, but they sell europe-wide so ‘our hay is ok’!
I took it as a confession and will now most definitely avoid pelleted forage.

I hope your mare recovers soon - i would be calling the vet with her combination of symptoms for blood analysis, as she may need anti-b’s if its a lingering infection.
Keep us updated how things turn out.

 

[hollyandivy123]

I have an eight year old mare with a strange pattern of leg swelling. About a year and a half ago, after a lesson on a new surface, one of her legs puffed up quite alarmingly the following day, and another two legs swole noticeably by day two. I was concerned about possible ligament/tendon damage, so we brought her to our orthopedic vet. Nothing showed up in flexion or on a circle/straight and the vet felt on palpation this was more likely a reaction to an additive in the surface.

We have not had any soundness issues, though she has not competed or worked overly hard (beyond normal flatwork/small jumps) since that episode. We have also been struggling to manage gastric issues with her for nearly the same period of time. Our well was contaminated last summer, and despite shocking the well and installing a filter, and finally, after no improvement, switching her to the reverse osmosis water from our house, her stomach has remained extremely sensitive. We have given her a custom probiotic, swapped her to a cereal free diet, and begun soaking her hay. All of this has brought her to a level where she appears generally comfortable, but still prone to loose droppings every now and then. I am probably going to put her on a course of Succeed now as I feel what we've done is a temporary fix. I mention this as it's an ongoing issue and I've noticed that her legs tend to stock up when her stomach is doing worse.

This week, I have noticed her front legs, one in particular, puffing up more than they had been for some time. Neither is sensitive to touch and not having what I would consider heat. But I have been surprised to find her legs tight and cool in the morning only to stock back up within minutes of exercise and increased blood flow. What the heck is going on? She doesn't seem off or lame or uncomfortable, but this is contrary to any prior experience I have. This is an outside of fetlock type of swelling (though not like suspensory branch swelling I've experienced in another horse), and while I have seen it sometimes with her in the morning (though not lately), I have never seen it suddenly appear after exercise.

Is it possible this is systemic inflammation made worse by warm weather/something in diet/ulcers? I would have thought a lymphatic issue would seem to resolve rather than appear after motion. Would swelling from soft tissue damage recur in this way after no obvious recent traumatic episode/injury? Would anyone have any thoughts/past experience with something like this? Trying to decide which vet to call this time

are you riding on the service you mentioned earlier ? it might actually be an allergic reaction.

talk to a vet about faecal therapy................i am guessing you are on your own and no other horse in the field? have you checked your land for the contaminates in the well?

 

[brightlights]

Is she ridden then immediately stabled?

Her schedule at the moment is usually walker in the morning, ride in the afternoon, hand graze in the evening. I'd like to turn her out, but she's a bit of a nightmare on day turnout so requires v good field (we're not there yet with all the wet) and some vigilance She does get at least ten minutes of walking on a loose rein after work, so she's not being put away hot.

I stopped ridden work a few days ago when I began to wonder if this iteration of swelling was an injury. Legs have been tight and cool each morning, so I've been giving her 15-20 minutes on the walker the last three days only to find her legs temporarily swollen, usually for less than an hour, after coming off. The swelling isn't hot and she doesn't react to it being touched when she would usually be quite a reactive horse. It doesn't seem sore but it's strange. All of my horses' fetlocks have some small evidence of increased blood flow after exercise. Nothing puffy, just a bit of warmth that last a few minutes. Normal, I think? This mare's swelling seems like that, but over a much larger surface area?

She was a bit playful last week when I walked her over a pole a few times It's possible she landed wrong but I saw/felt nothing for a couple days afterward.

 

[brightlights]

Here’s an article on limb swelling causes which may help narrow down your issue.

https://thehorse.com/181193/why-does-my-horse-have-a-fat-leg/

Its curious your water well contamination issue and she still has sensitive bowels and loose droppings. It’s possible these symptoms are linked to the limb swelling as they occurred around the same time, if im understanding you correctly.

Was she ever on anti-biotics after the water contamination discovery/loose stools?

Probiotics are great for stabilising/enhancing gut bacteria but won’t be able to kill off a potential systemic pathogenic infection.

I’m wondering if this happens after exercise due to there being an infection present, so the ‘weak’ blood vessels walls, due to infection, only upon metabolic activity, due to rapid heart pumping movement and heat generated via exercise, are then more prone to leaking their contents, causing immediate edema effects post exercise?

I’d get bloods drawn and tested for the main water borne infectious bacteria.
Just to rule that out.

Thank you so much for your reply. That's a great article. Her swelling does resemble a windpuff. There's some of it in the other front leg, but it's not quite symmetrical. One is more obvious, which makes me wonder if there is an underlying injury that's been reaggravated. If that's the case, I have to wonder if we damaged three of her legs last year The surface was woodchip made from recycled furniture, so who knows what kind of additives were in there... probably not the most ideal surface for hard work either. I know a couple horses at that stable also had puffy legs after the surface was put down, but people either didn't or wouldn't connect it to the woodchip. I had two other horses that weren't affected by it at all, so I think this mare is likely very sensitive. To that point, while a couple other horses had mild stomach upset from our water, everything with them resolved as soon as we shocked the well.

As I recall, she was on antibiotics both after the woodchip and the water contamination. These episodes were about six months apart. I do wonder if the cell structure was damaged after the woodchip day and is now vulnerable whenever her immune system is low. We pulled bloods and did fecal analysis over winter. Her white count was very slightly low. There was no evidence of blood in her feces but there was an imbalance in bacteria. We had a probiotic made from her own fecal matter that other people had raved about, but ultimately, it didn't seem to help her at all.

Our water was contaminated sometime last summer, but we weren't able to find out the what or how of it. Lots and lots of coliforms. We're surrounded by cattle and sheep farms, so it seemed likely to be from neighboring land. We've basically been told just to keep testing our water or sink another well, though the same thing could always happen again. We have had an extensive panel done on the water, but there are a lot of things, like pesticides and other synthetics, that I'd like to test. There are about 350 of these little extras to choose in a custom analysis, so I'm not sure when I'll be able to afford it.

The only relief I've found for this poor mare has been to change her diet completely. I do think after months of struggling with diarrhea and fecal water syndrome (so many vet call outs and very little idea what's going on!), there has to be some kind of ulcer problem. I will absolutely order more bloodwork for her and have her checked for waterborne contamination.

That is wild about your gelding! Good on you for taking immediate action and healing your boy. I can't believe that about the pelleted forage (although I can, really, because there is so much WTF in everything to do with keeping horses alive and healthy!). Some of mine are on Agrobs wiesencobs so you've given me something to think about! I hope they're not the company in question?

I had mine on haylage a couple summers ago (so directly preceding the ride on woodchip) when I couldn't source proper hay. I found several bales to have buttercup, thistles, all kinds of unknowns, and finally, ragwort, so we chucked it all then and there. It's very possible she got something questionable from it, but none of the other horses have had any kind of similar reaction. I will say that it seemed like all of my horses began urinating more frequently when we brought them to this property and switched to haylage This was something I mentioned to one of our vets but didn't get much traction on, but when we switched them back to hay, they did seem to urinate less frequently.

 

[brightlights]

are you riding on the service you mentioned earlier ? it might actually be an allergic reaction.

talk to a vet about faecal therapy................i am guessing you are on your own and no other horse in the field? have you checked your land for the contaminates in the well?

I think you're right about the allergic reaction. We put her on antibiotics afterward and she hasn't been near that surface in a year and a half.

Thank you for mentioning faecal therapy. Is that like a fecal transplant? We did have a probiotic made from her fecal matter, but didn't really see an improvement, so very possible there's still an irritant we haven't been able to find. We can't find a contaminant on our land, but it could very possibly be fertilizer or anything, really, from any of the neighboring farms.

 

[hollyandivy123]

I think you're right about the allergic reaction. We put her on antibiotics afterward and she hasn't been near that surface in a year and a half.

Thank you for mentioning faecal therapy. Is that like a fecal transplant? We did have a probiotic made from her fecal matter, but didn't really see an improvement, so very possible there's still an irritant we haven't been able to find. We can't find a contaminant on our land, but it could very possibly be fertilizer or anything, really, from any of the neighboring farms.

if it was made from her fecal matter then it probably will not help, you need another horse with a good microbiome, giving a "bad" biome back to the same horse will not change anything.

 

[brightlights]

if it was made from her fecal matter then it probably will not help, you need another horse with a good microbiome, giving a "bad" biome back to the same horse will not change anything.

I think the idea was to bring it back to her baseline, but I honestly have little understanding of the science. Using a good microbiome makes much more sense to me, too, so I will look into it! Thanks again

 

[brightlights]

Beginning to think this is a ligament injury (out of next to nothing! walking poles! ah!) coinciding with a slightly uneasy stomach week. She still has zero reaction to my touching it and walks out fine, but there was more warmth in it today than I'd prefer. Darn it all. Vet will be out Friday and I'll update if there's anything interesting to share.