Influence of mares on offspring

Luci07

Luci07

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I dont breed horses, I find the whole thing interesting and frequently lurk on this board but do have a question and apologies in advance if I am being a numpty!. Everyone places great focus on the stallion and often it seems that the influence from the mare is not a consideration. So lets say as an e.g., the sire was Primitive Rising and the damsire was say Master Imp. Which stallion would have a stronger influence? or do certain stallions have the reputation of stamping "their" stock regardless of whether they are a dam sire or sire. Just wondering? and I have just randomly picked out 2 well known and dead stallions to try to avoid upsetting anyone btw!
 
I think the mare is incredibly important. I don't have much experience with my own foals, one of my mares definitely stamps all her foals in her image. My other mare has had two foals, the first, Chinook - (video below), is by Chateau de Brion, and is definitely in her image.





The second though by Unbelievable Darco is more like his dad.

Riley2months.jpg


I would not use a mare I didn't have faith in, no matter the stallion, as they can only do so much when making a foal.
 
If either of my youngsters are anything to go by, the dams have greater influence on temperament. One is/was an absolute honey, with only a streak of her father's attitude. The other is nothing like her laidback father and is all her scatty, hot-headed, drama queen mama! Her saving grace is that she also has her mother's gorgeous movement and conformation. (Love her really!).
 
I don't think it is a coincidence that you find a lot of Sandro Hit babies out of Rubinstein mares so yes the mare does contribute.
 
The foal spends the first 6 months of its life learning from its mother so dam has a slightly higher input temperament wise but genetically its 50/50
Saying that though, my first youngster was so quiet and laid back yet his mum was a mega b!tch and his dad was a gent but the foal after him from same parents was a filly and totally took after mum so maybe gender plays a part too.
 
I think it varies from foal to foal, just like in humans, one child can look like one parent, and one like the other, or sometimes a bit like both.

We bred two foals from one mare, and both looked very like Dad and not at all like Mum. The first (a colt) had daddies fantastic temperant, whereas the second, a filly, was a baggage, even worse than her mum!

We then bred dun to dun and got a bay, which was the stamp of the father, and again nothing like Mum at all in looks or temperament.

Then we bought a mare who turned out to be in foal (vet check said she wasn't) which was a weedy bay TB x NF in foal to a coloured sports horse. We got a slightly less weedy but still plain bay and same conformation as mum, with no sign of the coloured or the sports element of the dad!

My last one was my polo mare (TB) in foal to Catherston Springsteen. The filly is very like daddy but with mums very solid bottom, so all in all good bits of both I hope (although her canter is flat like mums at present, whereas trot is fab).

So by my reckoning of some of my foals that's 3 like Dad, 1 like Mum and 1 part of each.
 
Polotash, the colour inheritance of your foals is very easily explained, for example your bay foal from two buckskin parents always had a 25% chance of being bay, just as it had a 25% chance of being perlino.

I would say this is where the importance of knowing your mare's and stallion's pedigrees comes in. Some horses are known to be prepotent in passing on particular attributes, and these can come up strongly in a 2nd or 3rd generation. Some horses can have a very diferent phenotype (apperance) from genotype (their genetic material that they can pass on to their foals). Thats why its very rarely worth the risk of breeding to a mare with an unknown history and unknown pedigree as you dont know what she might add to the mix, and she will have a significant contribution to the foal but genetically and also in those first 6 months of its life in terms of behaviour
 
volatis said:
Polotash, the colour inheritance of your foals is very easily explained, for example your bay foal from two buckskin parents always had a 25% chance of being bay, just as it had a 25% chance of being perlino.
Click to expand...

Yes, ta, I'm a biologist so a good background in genetics ;0) We didn't breed specifically for colour (never do), I was just saying we put dun to dun and got bay!
 
Interesting about stallions being able to pass on looks and or character. I know that Master Imp tended to stamp a certain character and cheekiness on his stock. We have a MI as a damsire in the yard but Big Sink Hope as the sire so I look forward to seeing which traits come to the fore!
 
Genetically every foal gets half it's genes from mum and half from dad, so the parents technically have equal input into the foal.

However, we now know that some genes (can't remember the research but remember reading it) are carried on only in the mares egg - so these characteristics (think they're to do with speed/endurance) would be influenced by the mare. The mare also has a greater effect in the environment, as she brings up the foal.

It certainly used to be the case that people thought the stallion was more important, but I think people are coming round now (slowly!) to realise that this is not the case.
 
To us, the mare has a huge influence. We have 2x 5 year olds by the same sire out of two different mares, they are hugely different in size and temperament although sometimes if something is outside of the mums it does make it wonder if it is the sire or environment. We've got an 8 month old by one of the mares with a different sire and she's much like her 1/2 brother and mum, although there is a bit of a insolent streak in her that isn't in the mum!

Ime if you have a poor mare (conformation, temperament or otherwise) an expensive sire won't make a good foal, luck might but then in breeding nothing is certain?

Wasn't there an article in H&H recently by one of the racing people about mare choice for racing and how one of the sucessful race horses was traced to the mare?
 
I just find it all really interesting, as someone who watches from the sidelines. You frequently find mares bloodlines mentioned as another element to put money on their price when up for sale, yet people always refer to the stallions breeding when talking about their horses. Maybe it is as suggested earlier that people didn't think as much about the mares and their breeding in earlier times! My own horse is out of French Buffet with Clover Hill on his dam sires side. When I find videos of FB's progeny, they are definitely a "type". I suppose I should look to what he bred when FB stood in Holland to see if the same stood true when he was put to WB's.
 
The reason stallion names get mentioned in sales adverts etc is because over here very few people would know the names of the mother lines. But go to Germany to buy a Holstein for example and the breeders there will quote you the stamm (number) of the mare family as paert of the standard way of describing that horse's pedigree.
The same with Trakehner breeders, we can name for you the mare family as we are lucky that the verband has always recognised the importance of the mother line and so we have a good system for referencing them.
Most of my mares are from family Elfe or Corna. That would mean nothing in an advert in the UK but it would in Germany or among Trakehner enthusiasts
 
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