ingredients of vitamin and balancer supplements...

[dominobrown]

Been looking for cost effective vitamin and mineral balancers as I feed straights but when you look into the ingredients what should we be looking for?
I find most follow this pattern...
Filler (grassfeed, wheat feed for cheaper ones, which doesn't really add anything nutritionally), Dicalcium phosphate (or mono), Sodium chloride and magnesium oxide. More expensive one might throw linseed and maybe a yeast in there, maybe magnesium chelate and calcium carbonate. However for salt, mag ox and dicalcium oxide I can't understand why they are so expensive, and I often buy those anyways, and to buy those its way cheaper. So what is the magic ingredients to look for? what makes them 'all round' supplements. I think with a bit of research (ratios and feeding rate so that means doing maths ) I could make my own basic one for a lot cheaper unless I am missing something.

 

[criso]

Look at forageplus or progressive earth, they are very clear about how much of each mineral vitamin and other extras like gut supplement or amino acids are in each version. They also sell the straight minerals if you want to make up your own.

I would be looking at how much of each of key minerals are delivered in daily recommended amount and how long it lasts fed at this rate to work out if it's cost effective.

A lot will have some filler to bring up the quantity to an even scoop so not always a bad thing, you don’t want to have to work out 16.2ml rather than a 20ml scoop.

 

[dominobrown]

Good point thanks. Some of the “fillers” included things like sucrose, so I am glad I researched it as I wouldn’t want to be feeding that anyways!
Will look them up too thanks

 

[criso]

Bear in mind that the people often complain that these 'purer' supplements aren't as tasty and some horses won't eat them. So sweet things end up getting added to feed to tempt them.

 

[dominobrown]

Bear in mind that the people often complain that these 'purer' supplements aren't as tasty and some horses won't eat them. So sweet things end up getting added to feed to tempt them.

True however I have seen a horse react badly (very ulcer prone type) to Topspec joint supplement… first 2 ingredients where sugar and maize…

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I feed progressive earth but can't get a full dose into my horses they just won't eat it as I only feed 1 feed a day most of the year, they only have unmolassed beet and grass chaff and half a handful of high fibre nuts and I only feed them to get the supplements into them

 

[Horseysheepy]

I use the blue chip concentrated balancer pellers for gut health. I do a month subscription which costs about £25 for a tub that lasts one month for 500kg horse. The tub is sent direct to my door, so very convenient.
It's got alfalfa in it, so may not suit all, but you only feed a small blue scoop twice a day and it's got a basic vit and mineral package as well as goodies for the tummy.

 

[Bluewaves]

I use the blue chip concentrated balancer pellers for gut health. I do a month subscription which costs about £25 for a tub that lasts one month for 500kg horse. The tub is sent direct to my door, so very convenient.
It's got alfalfa in it, so may not suit all, but you only feed a small blue scoop twice a day and it's got a basic vit and mineral package as well as goodies for the tummy.

Do you have to soak these pellets and will the horse eat it with no other feed added?

 

[dominobrown]

Problem is when you are feeding 5 horses that works out at £125 per month! I normally use Equimins advance (which is similar) and buy the 10kg tub which works out more economical. Do you know the raw ingredients? I just bought 4kg of mag ox for £16 and 25kg back of Himalayan rock salt for £24. I know where I can get dicalcium phosphate cheap too, so my theory is I could make my own you see? Some yeasacc etc/ brewers yeast and then its 'gut health' approved.

 

[criso]

Problem is when you are feeding 5 horses that works out at £125 per month! I normally use Equimins advance (which is similar) and buy the 10kg tub which works out more economical. Do you know the raw ingredients? I just bought 4kg of mag ox for £16 and 25kg back of Himalayan rock salt for £24. I know where I can get dicalcium phosphate cheap too, so my theory is I could make my own you see? Some yeasacc etc/ brewers yeast and then its 'gut health' approved.

Had a quick look at blue chip, it says vitamin and mineral mix as an ingredient so you would need to replicate that. That's what will be expensive and what you haven't accounted for.

To replicate that you would need to buy and feed copper, zinc, magnesium, calcium, selenium, phosphorus and iodine which is in most balancers. This can vary slightly depending on local forage but these are the main ones. Plus Vitamins C and E.

It also includes amino acids L carnitine biotin, methionine and lysine.

 

[Lady Jane]

Salt is cheap and can reduce shelf life so if often not included.
If you can find the NRC 2007 guide for horses, then match the various products against those guidelines, it lets you compare the various brands

 

[Sossigpoker]

The added vitamins and minerals need to be carried in something, such as grass meal , alfalfa or wheatfeed. They aren't there to add nutritional value, they form the base for the vitamin and mineral mix.
You will be feeding such small amounts that whatever the carrier is doesn't matter as long as you horse doesn't have a true allergy or other medical conditions

If the supplement only provides salt and magnesium then theyre just robbing you for your money. But you will find that in most cases , listed separately are the added vitamins and minerals.

 

[criso]

you will find that in most cases , listed separately are the added vitamins and minerals.

Apart from a few like forage plus and progressive earth it's not that easy.

Many list vitamin and mineral premix in the ingredients but not which and what form.

You might get a list of vitamins and minerals it delivers but it's not clear what the source is. E.g. B vits will be listed but they may be coming from brewers yeast not as a separate ingredient in the premix.

Then they might list the levels of minerals per 100g and tell you to feed by the scoop but not how much the scoop weighs so you can't work out how much each scoop delivers. You might be able to calculate back from how long the bag lasts and how much it weighs but that's probably too much maths for most people.

 

[Horseysheepy]

Do you have to soak these pellets and will the horse eat it with no other feed added?

No, they are similar sized to a normal balancer pellet, so very small. In fact you could feed it in your hand, it's only a small scoop twice a day.
I feed it with honeychop and a bit of speedibeet to help the oily herbs stick to it.
My horse would probably eat it straight from my hand or on its own as it's smells lovely and minty!

 

[Bluewaves]

No, they are similar sized to a normal balancer pellet, so very small. In fact you could feed it in your hand, it's only a small scoop twice a day.
I feed it with honeychop and a bit of speedibeet to help the oily herbs stick to it.
My horse would probably eat it straight from my hand or on its own as it's smells lovely and minty!

oh, i might give try a sample of that. My fatso has got very fussy about taking powdered balancers unless its mixed with Releve mix/mash. The Releve is very tasty but he is looking far too well rounded on it.

 

[PurBee]

Problem is when you are feeding 5 horses that works out at £125 per month! I normally use Equimins advance (which is similar) and buy the 10kg tub which works out more economical. Do you know the raw ingredients? I just bought 4kg of mag ox for £16 and 25kg back of Himalayan rock salt for £24. I know where I can get dicalcium phosphate cheap too, so my theory is I could make my own you see? Some yeasacc etc/ brewers yeast and then its 'gut health' approved.

I thought similar about making my own, but cost-wise realised it would cost more if i was to include all the micro-minerals most balancers include like selenium, copper, iodine, molybdenum etc etc - then factor in the other macro-minerals cost.
Equimins adv. is good, my preferred one, but trying to replicate that i worked-out would cost lots more, unless buying huge quantities.

Only when buying in serious bulk quantities would it work out cheaper. But then there’s the initial huge £££ outlay, storage room required to keep powders dry/cool etc, then i realised i dont have enough horses to buy that much bulk and would be better off selling my own balancer to others if i got to those quantities….and i dont have time to do all that!

The cheaper balancers out there that have grain bi-products as carriers, soy hulls, ‘wheat feed’ etc - their mineral amounts tend to be lower than RDA, except for selenium, that tends to be the right RDA generally. But they lack the right quantity of some minerals like magnesium, omega3, which you end up buying separately. Most dont have brewers yeast or B12 adequate amounts so thats also separate. It’s a pain. Hence why i prefer equimins because their forms of minerals are better absorbed, and they add b vits too. Many other companies use the ‘industrial forms’ of minerals that are poorly absorbed.
I always have extra mag ox to hand and linseed as those are needed in varying amounts depending on the seasons. Mag ox and copper i really focus on as theyre very low in average soils/forages. salt separate too.

Im yet to find one where i dont have to make-up nutritional shortfalls and having to balance the balancer! Thats to be expected because all horses needs are different, work loads different, grazing/hays different.

The ones that are pelleted can contain feed bi products like soy/alfalfa/wheat bi-products that may be more an issue than the minerals they contain. I was using a popular one and my 2 were not looking great and temperaments different, main ingredient was soy hulls. Mares feet vastly improved off it too.
I prefer paying for minerals than dodgy-quality feed bi-products tbh, so always prefer the powder mixes. Adding mag ox/linseed even to those. Seasonal copper shots.

Ultimately, If we can give them mixed hays/grasses and they have access to plenty of bushes/hedgerows/trees (non toxic ones) theyll nibble on those deeper rooted trees and bushes which are able to mine far more minerals from subsoils, than grass can from (mostly depleted by equine over-grazing) topsoils.
Minerals from fresh foods always trump dried- isolated mineral powders, as the foods contain the enzymes that enable better absorption of the minerals, and various other co-factors aiding absorption.
Trees and bushes also drop their leaves in autumn, blowing all over the paddocks, which rot down and feed the topsoil with minerals from deeper soils, so they fertilise the topsoils making the paddocks overall more nutritious.
These are longer term solutions to a bare paddock without trees/bushes, but it’s a very good avenue to consider if you own land, or persuade YO at yards to begin a tree/bush planting program for nutrition of grazers.
Fresh minerals from food is always premium nutrition. Dried, extracted, lab-isolated powders are useful and necessary but expensive, secondary quality compared to fresh food. As owners if we take a broader view of maximizing fresh food availability through diverse plantings of grasses/safe weeds/herbs and bushes/trees, the requirements of bagged mineral extras are reduced.

 

[criso]

why i prefer equimins because their forms of minerals are better absorbed

I thought equimims used the oxide/sulphate forms of copper and zinc rather than the bioplex. I know when I've bought straights from them they only stock sulphates and oxides.

Only when buying in serious bulk quantities would it work out cheaper.

Agreed, if you look at a supplier like progressive earth, they supply the straight ingredients or the blends. I don't think they make anymore from the blended minerals than straights so it doesn't necessarily work out cheaper.

I do make my own but that's because I know roughly mineral levels in the forage and I feed Copra which is high in phosphorus so I exclude some minerals which would be in a balancer.

 

[PurBee]

I thought equimims used the oxide/sulphate forms of copper and zinc rather than the bioplex. I know when I've bought straights from them they only stock sulphates and oxides.




Agreed, if you look at a supplier like progressive earth, they supply the straight ingredients or the blends. I don't think they make anymore from the blended minerals than straights so it doesn't necessarily work out cheaper.

I do make my own but that's because I know roughly mineral levels in the forage and I feed Copra which is high in phosphorus so I exclude some minerals which would be in a balancer.

Im not sure about equimins other straight minerals - their ‘advance concentrate complete’ balancer is what i was referring to as that contains chelated forms of various minerals, combined with some oxide/sulphate forms, aswell as b vits, amino acids, probiotic - so as an overall mix there’s lots better quality in there compared to other basic balancers using only low dose oxides and sulphates.


I meant bulk 100kg+ purchases of decent minerals, only then could we compete with prices of already blended mixes. I even ventured into IBC 1000kg container imports! Cheap as chips compared to retail 1kg prices.

Knowing what theyre already getting is key, as youve done by getting hay/grass tested. That saves adding unnecessary minerals and potentially saving loads of ££, so the investment in testing forage is worth it.

 

[criso]

Im not sure about equimins other straight minerals - their ‘advance concentrate complete’ balancer is what i was referring to as that contains chelated forms of various minerals, combined with some oxide/sulphate forms, aswell as b vits, amino acids, probiotic - so as an overall mix there’s lots better quality in there compared to other basic balancers using only low dose oxides and sulphates

This was their secret price list that let you buy their ingredients separately but it was a good few years ago as I moved to FP/PE when they started selling bioplex/chelated though so they may now sell both.

Just had a quick look at their advanced concentrate complete and it contains both chelated and zinc oxide, copper sulphate. Interesting.

 

[dominobrown]

Thanks people.
I normally get this...

Equimins Advance Concentrate Complete Analysis​

Composition:​

Dicalcium Phosphate, Micronised Linseed, Sodium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Linseed Oil, Magnesium Oxide, Chrome Yeast, Oligoflora, Magnesium Chelate.

However still from equimins I saw this and it got me thinking...

Equimins Tip Top Pellets Analysis​

Composition:​

Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Micronised Linseed, Linseed Oil, Sodium Chloride , Magnesium Oxide (2850mg/kg).


The 2nd a way cheaper but don't contain anything groundbreaking. Vitamin and mineral premix is not mentioned on composition lists so I assume either its added but not listed?

 

[criso]

From their website. If you look below the composition for additives per kg, you would have to buy these

Advance Concentrate Complete brought to the equine world by Equimins.

Advance Concentrate represents a huge breakthrough in modern nutrition and horse supplements. It contains a truly superb combination of ingredients.

www.equimins-online.com