Instant calmers??

Gorseyhorsey

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Hi, I'm looking for opinions on instant calmers.

My six year old is not coping too well with going to shows at new venues, especially on grass. I am hoping an instant calmer before such occasions might just help her to settle. I'm particularly interested in non magnesium based ones as she is pretty heavily supplemented with magnesium already, so I assume they probably wouldn't have much effect.

The main problems are reactivity to other horses and generally just getting tense and worried. I've seen Global Herbs supercalm sachets - any experiences of this one. Thanks
 

Malteaser

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The best calmer I've ever used is James harts v-calm. It contains valerian and It works in 30 minutes. It's so effective its actually banned for use in competitions! I know people who do compete at lower levels while using it though. ;-)
 

NaeNae87

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The best calmer I've ever used is James harts v-calm. It contains valerian and It works in 30 minutes. It's so effective its actually banned for use in competitions! I know people who do compete at lower levels while using it though. ;-)

Valerian is on the FEI banned substances list, which would be why that particular calmer is banned. The use of calmers in general is also banned under FEI rules. It's not just the actual banned substances, it's also the intent behind the substances. See highlighted below.

"taken from the FEI website"
Persons administering a herbal or so called natural product to a horse or pony for health reasons or to affect its performance, having been informed that the plant origin of its ingredients do not violate the FEI regulations, may have been misinformed.

The use of any herbal or natural product to affect the performance of a horse or pony in a calming (tranquilising) or an energising (stimulant) manner is expressly forbidden by FEI regulations. The use of a calming product during competition may also have important safety consequences.

The FEI does not test or approve herbal or natural products to verify a possible violation of the FEI rules and regulations. Therefore a claim that the product does not violate the FEI rules or is undetectable by drug testing is the sole responsibility of the manufacturer or individual making such a claim. The use of a herbal or natural product may result in a positive test result, contrary to the claim by the manufacturer or marketing agent. Many Prohibited Substances have their origin in plants and may be regarded as serious rule violations. For example, many pharmacologically potent and readily detectable forbidden substances are obtained from plants, e.g. cocaine, heroin and marijuana all come from plants. This warning is common to all major equine regulatory authorities.

Here is the link to that information, in case you want some further reading...
http://www.feicleansport.org/faqs.html?#link6
 
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shadowboy

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I use Calabrian on the stressy TB you can't compete at high levels on it but its amazing stuff- hence why the jockey club and FEI banned it. You only need about 15grm for a 500kg horse and it just takes the spooky/ stressy edge off.
 

Gorseyhorsey

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So Valerian is v. effective if rather illegal but as I'm only doing baby stuff (Still!) at the moment... Anybody have any other ideas/experiences?
 

popsdosh

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Theres a very good reason Valerians banned! Its to do with safety people were jumping horses with it and it affects their spacial awareness and coordination.
 

ribbons

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Forget the potions. Take the horse out to events without competing in them as often as you can, twice a week two days running at weekend if possible. Work the horse for an hour at least before leaving for the event. Keep him moving the whole time your there, stay for 2 or 3 hours.

Freshness and excitement are the problem. Repetitive familiarity and tiredness will take the edge off better than pills and potions.

Hard work and effort on your part for probably the best part of this year, then you have a horse that will be chilled and relaxed wherever you take him for life.
Or you can dope him forever, because he'll never learn to take things in his stride with calmers in his system all the time.
 

popsdosh

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Popsdosh where did you read that?
I was told by two FEI vets who both said they would not even ride a horse given it. It is how it causes its calming effect. That is the reason all calmers are banned in affiliated competition!Would you jump a horse that had been sedated??? it is the same effect not quite so dramatic and different horses respond differently. like it has been said it is not the action of the calmer that is the issue its the intent in using it.
Personally I feel they are being used to mask inadequate preparation and lack of work in most cases.Sorry I know I will get shot down for this but everybody wants a shortcut to their objectives and a whole industry has grown up around calmers where the rider thinks its normal to need one. We breed talented horses get them fit and forget fit horses can be exuberant,as pointed out above more work usually is the answer.
 

TarrSteps

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While I agree whole heartedly with your second paragraph, popdosh - with the added comment that doing something you know is against the rules just because you know you won't get caught doesn't make it right - I cannot completely agree with your first one.

I have used valerian successfully a number of times for horses coming back from injury or similar who need the edge off in a mild way but cannot be subjected to the amount of exercise required to do so. I have also used in in transitional periods where a horse's anxiety level is potentially dangerous to itself and others. Is it a "good" idea? No, of course not. But needs must and sometimes a bit of help can prevent a whole heap of trouble. Obviously this takes some observation and experimentation but to say it's ALWAYS going to be a disaster is simply not correct.

Competing it different. No horse NEEDS to compete and yes, the vast majority will settle with the right approach and work level. And frankly, if the horse cannot do the job safely in the situation it is in with a reasonable amount of effort, I would question if its the right situation for the horse.
 

popsdosh

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I dont disagree TS with your logic on using Valerian but you understand its benefits and would be aware of its limitations. I think the two vets were specifically thinking about eventing at the time as in their opinion a horse on Valerian would be to much of a risk to jump.
The problem is a lot of these products are marketed as calmers and people dont differentiate between their mode of action.
 
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Gorseyhorsey

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Thanks for your thoughts... She's been going out to things regularly for the last two years, she can generally cope fine(ish) with places she knows (eventually!) but I think she's genuinely worried at new places. I agree that keeping going out to as many places as possible will get there in the end. I just wondered if there was anything in this instant calmer lark that could just help her have a better experience for the first time or two somewhere new.

And for the record I don't think valerian is the way forward for us.
 

shadowboy

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Valarian is fine if you genuinely don't overdose- being a herb people think its fine to do so but you do need to weigh it out. I've used it for many years on horses who won't be clipped, travel or find competing stressful and never had spacial awareness problems they have always known where they and I am.
 

Gorseyhorsey

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Actually Ribbons comments have made me feel better about tonight. We've just been out trying to do dressage on grass - same venue she really didn't cope with last week. The tests were still pretty awful - so tense, but she was better warming up and with the other horses. I carried on working her after her tests and was probably on her another hour in the end just trying to keep her listening and trying to get her to relax and get her neck out a bit. I was worried I'd overdone it but maybe it's not such a bad thing - she's not short of energy!
 

Wilbur_Force

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Best instant calmers I've used/heard are good are Global Herbs Supercalm sachets and Equine America Super Kalm paste. Both these are not 'dope' calmers but are great for taking away that gawping and spooking response when horses are exposed to new and exciting surroundings :D
 

Fuzzypuff

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I have previously used science supplements pro Kalm with success.

However, how about trying something tummy settling instead to see if that helps - Protexin quick fix syringes are very good, as is their gut balancer. For every day calmer I use relax me which has tummy calming properties which make a big difference to a standard magnesium calmer. Or you could try coligone.
 

TarrSteps

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I would second Protexin. I've recommended it to a number of people after a student of mine had good luck with it, and every horse has improved on it, mentally and physically. We've played around with taking horses off it, using similar supplements etc and it's stood the test. Every horse has been more relaxed and rideable on it, I think, some very significantly so.. I'm not one to recommend products generally as I think it's very individual, but I've been impressed.
 

Gorseyhorsey

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Thanks for that, The Global Herbs one was one I was thinking of trying.

Good to hear that Protexin helps, I might try that as I think she may have some gastric issues. She's always been on a purely fibre diet to which I add yeasacc amongst other things and now I give her some alphalfa before riding which I think helps. I wonder if it's worth trying the quick fix syringe without using the balancer to start with or do they work best together?
 
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