Insurance and giving loan pony up :(

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GypsyGirl

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Hey guys,

Im just wondering on what your views are on this scenario:

When I first got Gypsy on full loan, her owners didnt want a loan contract draw up.
Ive had her for nearlly two years now. When I first agreed to take Gypsy on they also said that I don't have to pay for Gypsys insurance as they have it all under control.

Last year, they asked me if I could start paying for her insurance, and I said no because I couldnt afford it, I was fulltime at college and only got my £30 a week for being there and that covered her field rent (full grass livery) everything else came out of either my mums pocket, or work but that was only bank shifts. Anyways ..

They have come up today and given me a loan agreement .. and in this loan agreement they have put that I have to pay for Gypsys insurance, and also any outstanding vets bills.

I brought this up to them, as they said before that I don't have to pay it. They have now said that if I don't pay it .. then theyve got to take Gypsy back and get someone who will pay for it all.

I have just shown my mum the contract and she said that im better off not paying her insurance for Gypsy .. and give her back, just because if im going to have to pay insurance and everything .. then I might aswell save up for a little while and get my OWN horse. Not a one on loan .. but maybe something bigger and younger then Gypsy, something that will give me more confidence in jumping instead of running around the sj ring.

Now I understand that peoples work and pay and everything changes, im not the most welthest person .. but I do think its unfair that they told me that I don't have to pay her insurance (the reason i got her as shes not 100% mine) and have now stated it in the loan agreement that I have to pay it.

Im really upset by it .. I think its unfair as they know how attached I am to Gypsy and how much I love her .. but everytime they come over its like they just try and walk all over me .. and also im supposed to be going to a show on the 15th May. And told them that im planning on plaiting her up and turning her out like a hunter pony as she would look good .. and theyve told me just to hog her off because she would look horrible.

Im sooo upset :( What does everyone think I should do?

Thank you in advance xx
 
Sorry but if you have her on full loan, I see nothing unreasonable in asking you to pay for her insurance, or paying any outstanding vets bills (which is why you should have insurance!).
Insurance should be factored into any animals keep for the 3rd party liability if nothing else!
 
My insurance for two horses, tack and trailer doesn't amount to much, so although I would say pay it - my concern would be, what if she needed treatment that fell just under the cost of the excess, or how would you afford the excess.

Unfortunatly horses are expensive creatures to keep.
 
I appreciate that you have had a change in the agreement, but you have had the horse for two years, presumably without poaying for insurance or vet bills. I cannot see how you can complain when her owners now ask you to pay a realistic part of horse ownership. How much would you have had to pay if you had also had to pay for the horse herself in the first place? How much would you have paid to ride the hours you have at a riding school? Sorry but horse keeping is expensive and the only time you have a full say in what happens is when you own it, and then you have all the expense.
 
i agree with what the others have said. whilst you might be miffed that they've changed the contract, it's not unreasonable at all for them to ask you to pay insurance. i'd have thought that 100% of people sending their horse out on loan would insist on the loaner paying insurance.

if you're worried about the cost, insurance is probably one of the smallest horse-related outgoings! shop around and i'm sure you'll find a good deal. one wrong step/kick in the field can lead to £thousands of vets bills. trust me, i know... :)
also, all horses should really have 3rd party cover (esp if you go to shows/hacking etc) in case they get loose and cause an accident. you personally could find yourself liable for your neighbours new Range Rover being sat on (or far far worse)

i can highly recommend Stoneways insurance. they were cheap, cheerful and are paying up for Raff. i don't get 'loss of use' insurance, which often makes insurance cheaper, and only cover Raff for death for a small amount, cos my reasoning behind insuring him, is i want to be able to have him fixed if he breaks. replacing him/loss of use would be nice, but i'd rather have a higher limit on my vet's fees. so, you can do it much cheaper than you think.

good luck!
 
I think they could of approached the subject a little better with you but if I'm totally honest I think you should be paying the insurance why should they pay it when you have the horse?!

I'd be worried about them asking you to take on any outstanding vets bills though as it sounds to me like they may have a fair bit to pay - if Gypsy hasn't needed the vet since you have had her apart from routine jabs etc then I dont think you should be liable for them.

If you do decide to give her back and get your own please do get it insured - my pony had colic and cost me £3500 and only last year my horse went down with unknown lameness and cost me over £2000 without insurance I would have had to sell my house to treat them!!
 
I can understand your angst after two years of having the horse. I assume that over those two years you have paid for everything else, which the owners haven't had to do - all part of the loaning system. If mine went out on loan I would pay the insurance as I'd want to be sure the horse was covered :)

I think that maybe your Mum is right. Save up for one of your own - but before you do, look again at your finances and work out whether you can afford all of it. Maybe just a basic grass livery if you can find it (should be around £15 per week), which would help towards the other costs :).

Have a hug and a hot choccy :).
 
Having had ponies on loan and having ponies that are currently on full loan, I expect the loaner to pay ALL costs for running the horse. It's personal choice of the owner but they arent really out of order for doing this. Your basically quibiling over paying another £20- £30 per month which isn't really an awful lot. Why can't you get a part time job to pay for this? And how is saving up and buying your own horse going to magically be the anser? It'll cost you double! you'll have to then not only pay insurance, vets fee's, dentist, livery ect. but also kit out new horse when you get it!
 
Money has nothing to do with this .. I can easily afford to pay for insurance, and if I got my own horse id deffiniatly have it insured as it would be 100% mine .. I work full time at the hospital and have enough money to support me.

I already pay for everything for Gypsy .. Full Grass Livery .. Jabs .. Dentist .. Trims etc. And its not the fact that I can't pay for her insurance .. I would, but I just think why would she not bring out a loan agreement before when I asked her to, 2 years ago. I understand all the financial commitments and everything ive been riding an owning horses for the passed 16 years. Plus shes not 100% mine, I want to buy her, but her owners would never allow her to be sold.

The whole point of me having Gypsy from the start was to avoid vets bills and insurance whilst I was still in education. Thats why I took her on in the first place and they agreed with me that I don't have to pay for her insurance or vets bills (unless jabs etc) and we all agreed. Its just now after 2 years she wants me to pay etc when Gypsy isnt 100% mine.
 
Well personally I'd expect the owner to pay for the insurance.... If the worst happened to the horse at the end of the day, they would be the ones who would expect to benefit for it. However I'd expect the loaner to pay everything else including any excesses on the policy.

Hope you're ok.
 
I own a horse that is away on loan. Loanee is paying all costs, insurance mandatory. I have a horse on loan. Insurance mandatory, and I'm paying. Everyone I have ever spoken to re loaning has had the requirement of me paying for the insurance if I take it on loan. I just assume this is the done thing.
 
Yeah, I understand that people pay for there own and loan horses insurance .. Its just because she told me that I didnt have to pay any of that at the begining .. so I took Gypsy on knowing that I didnt have to pay for that. 2years later im having them say I have to pay for it or I can't have her anymore. So ive got really attached to her .. and now because my parents and me arnt prepared to pay insurance for her (because shes 100% mine) Im having to give her back. I just wish they had said it before I took her on .. then I wouldnt have a problem with it like i do now.
 
GypsyGirl said:
Money has nothing to do with this .. I can easily afford to pay for insurance, and if I got my own horse id deffiniatly have it insured as it would be 100% mine .. I work full time at the hospital and have enough money to support me.

I already pay for everything for Gypsy .. Full Grass Livery .. Jabs .. Dentist .. Trims etc. And its not the fact that I can't pay for her insurance .. I would, but I just think why would she not bring out a loan agreement before when I asked her to, 2 years ago. I understand all the financial commitments and everything ive been riding an owning horses for the passed 16 years. Plus shes not 100% mine, I want to buy her, but her owners would never allow her to be sold.

The whole point of me having Gypsy from the start was to avoid vets bills and insurance whilst I was still in education. Thats why I took her on in the first place and they agreed with me that I don't have to pay for her insurance or vets bills (unless jabs etc) and we all agreed. Its just now after 2 years she wants me to pay etc when Gypsy isnt 100% mine.
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OP
Doesn't this contradict what you said originally?

Last year, they asked me if I could start paying for her insurance, and I said no because I couldnt afford it, I was fulltime at college and only got my £30 a week for being there and that covered her field rent (full grass livery) everything else came out of either my mums pocket, or work but that was only bank shifts.

This just shows the importance of having a loan agreement in place before the horse leaves the owner's yard. If I was to put one of my horses on loan I think I would want to be paying the insurance myself, so as to be absolutely certain that there were no hiccups.
 
Well no .. because I was in full time education when I took Gypsy on .. I was 16 at the time .. Im now at work full time being 18. I admit I couldnt afford it at the time, thats the whole reason why I took Gypsy on because I was told that I didnt have to pay for her insurance or any vets bills .. I asked for a loan agreement but they said they didnt want one invloved, just if I had any problems then to talk to them about it etc.
 
I can see that it must be upsetting for you GG, however I suppose the owners are entitled to change their minds about aspects of the loan. If you like the pony so much I'd be inclined to keep her, arrange the insurance and carry on. I do think that most people who would loan out a pony would expect insurance to be paid for so I doubt you'd find a better deal really.


I would, however, question the "all outstanding vets bills" I think that if the new loan agreement starts from now then why should you have to pay bills from when that was not the agreement? Best of luck and I hope it all works out for you.
 
seems simple enough, sign a new agreement or send her back

it is quite normal to insist loaners pay insurance and look at it this way, youve been saving that money for 2 years when you coudnt afford it, now you can

the owners might have someone in mind already to take the horse on and pay ALL the bills and save them some money, if you dont want to agree to the new arrangement so you need to have a serious think about whether keeping her is worth, say another £30 pm?
 
When I took a pony on loan, I signed agreement which stated I paid for vet bills and shoeing and the owner kept up insurance, he was getting on in age.
When we had to have him put down, I'd have done it 2 days in, owner said no so poor bugger, suffer another 5 days before she agreed, turned out she'd stopped insurance and I had to go half on vet bill, which was large and paid for him to be pts and removal. Shall never have an other loan.
 
i don't really understand the issue- if you don't want to pay insurance, give notice on the horse.

if you want to keep the horse, pay the insurance.

it is very normal for the person loaning the horse to pay the insurance to perhaps instead of being annoyed you should be pleased that you have had 2 years when you haven't paid insurance!

my horse is out on loan and the loanee is paying his insurance (she gives me a cheque each year and i pay the premiums).

it would be very cheap to insure her if you only wanted to cover vet's fees.
 
johnrobert said:
When I took a pony on loan, I signed agreement which stated I paid for vet bills and shoeing and the owner kept up insurance, he was getting on in age.
When we had to have him put down, I'd have done it 2 days in, owner said no so poor bugger, suffer another 5 days before she agreed, turned out she'd stopped insurance and I had to go half on vet bill, which was large and paid for him to be pts and removal. Shall never have an other loan.
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Its horrible when having to have a horse PTS .. My auntie had to have hers PTS a while back now, poor things. I think if this does fall apart then I will never loan again x
 
Insurance really isn't that much.

I'd just pay the insurance and keep her if you love her that much. Full loan should entail vets and insurance bills normally so it isn't anything to complain about really...lucky to have had 2 years of it being free! My mare is out on loan to a family also and responsability's are with the loaner,not me. Why be having expenses for a horse that's not in your care or used by you?

You'll only end up with your own horse you'll be paying it for, plus being horseless for months prior to getting one again also whilst saving...so won't be any better financially either way if that makes sense. Unless you're looking to buy one cheap to sell on, there's really not much difference in whether she's 100% yours or not if you've got her exclusively on loan unlimitedly anyway.
 
Plus it sounds like they don't really want her back anyway! I only loan mine out to ensure their future (I've got two who are on full loan to people at the moment.) ALL costs are met by the loaners but should they need to come home they can. As long as my horses are happy, they don't need to come home, but it just means that these two (who aren't easy types) will never be sold on through any markets, or end up neglected somewhere. I personally think your making a mountain out of a mole hill! Just pay the insurance and enjoy the pony!
 
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