Insurance for PTS and disposal?

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Dry Rot

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I keep seeing adverts on the TV for insurance to cover the funeral expenses for the over 50's.

I just spoke to my insurers who tell me they are not aware of any policies to cover the costs of putting a horse to sleep and disposing of the body. It occurs to me that a one off payment for this could be incorporated in the purchase price. After all, the price of my TV, fridge, or oven includes a payment to cover this cost, so why not horses?

Considering how horses are often passed around, free to good home or rescues, at the end of their useful lives, would this help solve the problem of surplus horses in the UK and encourage a humane end at the same time? I wouldn't like any elderly horse of mine to be neglected and huddled in the corner of a field in this weather.

Just a thought so please be kind! :) I know next to nothing about insurance but it does seem a chance for the insurance companies to make some money and to do some good at the same time. No, I've no idea how it could be done. I'll leave that to the clever ones.
 
Many insurance policies will cover such eventualities - it depends on what your policy says.

Just as an eg (taken from the Petplan website):

Tailor your cover to your needs
Our philosophy is to give our customers as much choice as possible and our policy allows you to select the exact level of cover you need. Tailor your cover to be as individual as your horse by choosing from a list of optional benefits including:

Up to £5,000 in vet fees per condition
Third Party Liability cover up to £3million
Permanent Loss of Use
Personal Accident
Saddlery and Tack
Disposal
Cover for trailers and horse-drawn vehicles
Terms, conditions and excesses apply
 
I don't insure but my understanding is that you can insure for 'death, theft or straying'. Not sure how it works though as I've never gone through insurance for it.

I've had one of my mares now for 12 years and she's now approaching 23, she had some tendon problems last year so, at that point I made sure that we had enough put away for 'end of life' stuff just in case. We've put away £500 for PTS and disposal.

Had I paid insurance at a basic premium of £25 per month then I'd have forked out £3600 over the years with no claims against it as she's never had a sick or sorry day.

i do think though that insurance companies (or even Vets themselves) could offer a very basic thing just to cover the PTS and disposal and I do think that that would see a reduction in the number of oldies being abandoned or passed on.
 
Most companies include disposal costs in their normal insurance policies and pay out on death too.
I can't see a costs of PTS and disposal costs insurance being any cheaper than a normal policy, would be better to put £500 aside yourself surely.
 
I have my own PTS insurance: its a bank savings account with enough in there for PTS & disposal of both of mine, it also has 'keep fund' for them in case I am no longer able to be in charge/pop off etc.
I dont touch it, only keep it up to date for interest rates (rubbish as they are)
 
Most insurance policies will cover for pts and disposal PROVIDED it meets the BEVA guidelines - basically to alleviate immediate significant suffering. As an example my horse was pts on vet recommendation following colic surgery - insurance paid. I took the decision to pts my retired mare after she got a bad kick on her hock which had cut into a tendon - insurance did not pay out as I could have sent her to have an operation (which they would have paid for) although both myself and my vet considered it better for her not to put her through a long journey, operation and rehabilitation with a very uncertain outcome.
 
eggs said:
Most insurance policies will cover for pts and disposal PROVIDED it meets the BEVA guidelines - basically to alleviate immediate significant suffering. As an example my horse was pts on vet recommendation following colic surgery - insurance paid. I took the decision to pts my retired mare after she got a bad kick on her hock which had cut into a tendon - insurance did not pay out as I could have sent her to have an operation (which they would have paid for) although both myself and my vet considered it better for her not to put her through a long journey, operation and rehabilitation with a very uncertain outcome.
Click to expand...
I know this is true but is it not a shame that a vet cannot decide what is right for the horse in front of him. It would save insurance companies tons of money and would give peace of mind to horse owners. Abuses would be pretty much impossible as the horse is dead its insurance cover finishes anyway
 
I would think something like that would end up costing a lot more in premiums than it would cost to pay for the deed to be done.

The local hunt quoted me £80 for a 13hh pony, not even what it cost a month to keep her.

Surely people should just live up to their animal owning responsibilities and be prepared?

As mentioned above if the circumstances of the PTS do not meet BEVA guidelines then insurance companies won't cover it anyway.
 
windand rain said:
I know this is true but is it not a shame that a vet cannot decide what is right for the horse in front of him. It would save insurance companies tons of money and would give peace of mind to horse owners. Abuses would be pretty much impossible as the horse is dead its insurance cover finishes anyway
Click to expand...

It's a sad world when the owner won't do the right thing simply because the insurance won't pay out.

All of mine have basic insurance but if the worse should happen and the insurance said no, then I wouldn't give a toss about losing the insurance premium as long as I did right by my horse.
 
windand rain said:
I know this is true but is it not a shame that a vet cannot decide what is right for the horse in front of him. It would save insurance companies tons of money and would give peace of mind to horse owners. Abuses would be pretty much impossible as the horse is dead its insurance cover finishes anyway
Click to expand...
But if compassionate and sensible owners decide not to subject the animal to the treatment, the insurance company doesn't have to pay a penny. I am fairly sure that they rely on this!
 
True but my point was that although any sensible caring owner wouldnt give a damn about the money it is a shame that those that pay inusrance are then not covered for the things they expected on welfare grounds
 
Somehow I have two threads up. Sorry!

My point is really that if I buy a washing machine, TV, fridge, etc. I think it's disposal cost is included in the price by law. Presumably, if my horse dies and I have no money, the state will pay for disposal. I wasn't really thinking of old age but natural mortality and the insurance paid by a fixed sum? After all, just as white goods will eventually wear out and have to be disposed of, all horses will eventually die. I would consider vet fees for illness or accident an additional optional expense on top of the insurance to cover the inevitable expenses of death from old age. I was wondering if something could be included in the purchase price as a standard one off payment, possibly making it a legal requirement? Windand rain makes a very valid point. This would be insurance to cover the costs of what is inevitable, not an unforeseen risk.

Sorry to be comparing horses to washing machines!:( Another example, when I bought my farm, one boundary was uncertain. My solicitor took out insurance for legal fees against the possibility of a dispute with my neighbour at some stage in the future. It was a one off payment but I must confess I don't know the details as I very much doubt any such dispute will ever arise.
 
In my experience, this is a tricky one, as said above if it isnt under BEVA guidelines, ie horse needs immediate destructuction then they dont pay out. Its terrible really as although I appreciate this rule could be bent by some, for most caring owners PTS isnt taken lightly. My horse was PTS to cause unnessesary suffering, he was in pain and the vets words were we could take half his face away but you would be putting off the inevitable for a few months causing pain, stress and suffering along the way. I chose to PTS that day and because I didnt let him suffer for a few more months then the insurance wouldnt pay out. The underwriters dismissed a letter from my vet too, so I gave up as I wasnt in the right frame of mind at the time to fight. This was one of the bigger well respected companies and I have to say I was shocked, they said I needed to further treat him, in other words let him suffer before they would consider paying for loss. Needless to say I am not with that company anymore. Years ago I was with NFU who were fantastic when faced with a similar situation, they gave me the choice of LOU, claim for vets fees or PTS or all 3!! They just got too expensive so I had no choice but to change.
My horse is insured but I have it to back me up for vets fees and 3rd party liability, I feel the rest of the cover has too many loop holes
 
My 29 year old and 20 year old are both on a policy which covers them for injuries, PTS and disposal along with Public liability etc, its a Veteran policy. I took the horses on after the cut off age for standard insurance so I'm not covered for sickness etc. They cost £14.53 each per month. I've considered a few times whether to put the inevitable money aside and cancel the insurance (as I've already paid to them the costs of a hunt and it just keeps adding up) but I've kept it mainly for the liability insurance. I am expecting there to be a loop hole when I try to claim if I stay with them
 
My pony was insured for death and disposal under his policy and have had a payout from them for all his bills and death claim. My ponys case was complicated because he had an injury that hadnt been seen in a live horse so we had nothing to compare with. I had a top professor involved in his care who decided that despite all treatment tried over 4mths he was deteriorating to such a degree that he was suffering and enough was enough and rang my insurance himself in person!! Before 48hrs had passed from his initial call I had a letter in the post giving permission for euthanasia on humane grounds. I am eternally grateful to him for all his help and support he gave me because he didnt need to get involved and only did because I went and spoke to him at a talk.

My pony would have been put to sleep regardless whether insurance had given permission or not.I paid his disposal and vet sent euth bill to insurance although I knew it was highly likely they would pay out as D told me he would meet the criteria.

Insurance companies will only pay out for death and disposal if linked to a condition/ injury that is covered under the policy and meets the beva criteria.
 
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windand rain said:
I know this is true but is it not a shame that a vet cannot decide what is right for the horse in front of him. It would save insurance companies tons of money and would give peace of mind to horse owners. Abuses would be pretty much impossible as the horse is dead its insurance cover finishes anyway
Click to expand...

The vet can decide, you just don't get a payout. Precisely the situation I found myself in exactly 3 weeks ago, I get not a penny from the insurance but didn't influence mine or my vets decision
 
Some companies would be willing to consider a mortality payout if BEVA isn't met. If it can be shown the horse will continue to deteriorate despite treatment or treatment would have a low success rate then they may consider accepting a claim. The key is in these situations is to speak to Insurers and ask to speak to their referral vet before you euthanise. Of course in an emergency siutation this is not viable (and emergency situation would suggest BEVA met as immediate destruction is warranted). But for ongoing and/or chronic conditions it is always worth liaising with insurers first. It is always a lot easier to review these situations if euthanasia has been delayed.

Most companies do offer disposal costs and will pay for a valid mortality claim (providing you have purchased disposal cover). The only thing they won't cover is the actual cost of euthanasia
 
Elbie said:
Some companies would be willing to consider a mortality payout if BEVA isn't met. If it can be shown the horse will continue to deteriorate despite treatment or treatment would have a low success rate then they may consider accepting a claim. The key is in these situations is to speak to Insurers and ask to speak to their referral vet before you euthanise. Of course in an emergency siutation this is not viable (and emergency situation would suggest BEVA met as immediate destruction is warranted). But for ongoing and/or chronic conditions it is always worth liaising with insurers first. It is always a lot easier to review these situations if euthanasia has been delayed.

Most companies do offer disposal costs and will pay for a valid mortality claim (providing you have purchased disposal cover). The only thing they won't cover is the actual cost of euthanasia
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I am insured with NFU who I think are very good but in the case I mentioned in my earlier post NFU did not pay for either the euthanasia or disposal costs. I had seen my mare in the field in the afternoon and she was fine. Went to catch her in a few hours later and she was very lame with an obvious kick wound. By the time the vet arrived it was 6.30 pm on a Saturday night. Decision was to either take her to the RVC (two hours away) for an operation and the distinct possibility she would have to be on box rest for the rest of her life, do nothing and then by next morning she would have met BEVA guidelines or pts then and there as she was in so much discomfort. I choose the latter but as the office was closed I wasn't able to check first (I knew I wouldn't get a payout) and it wasn't an emergency as it wasn't life or death at that point in time. Had I opted for surgery the cost would have been more than the costs I incurred anyway.
 
An insurance policy of mine have told me that the horse they cover will not pay out because the situation will not fulfill BEVA guidelines...which is fine but with the next breath I was told
'But why are you considering this you still have £3,500 left on this claim'
....urm it's being considered because it's in the best interests of the horse.
 
surely pts and "disposal" does not cost that much ? (if disposal means gathering the body for destruction)

I've cremated 3 of my horses, all at one "horse crematorium" I know they offer Insurance, as to basically spread the payments- you pay like 100-120euros per year (i guess about 70-80pounds). Is that what you were trying to ask ?
 
My last two were shot by the hunt, £130 plus a tip to the hunt staff, injection by vet and removal £500. Really if you can not plan for that you shouldn't have a horse.
 
Really insurance is just a means of covering yourself for something that might or might not happen - it only works because we all pay in, and in total are paying in more than the unlucky ones will have to claim back.

Putting down an animal and disposal of the body is almost inevitable, so for the insurance company to make money the premiums would have to be higher for everyone that the actual cost of disposal.

I see where you're coming from, OP, but the sort of people who pass on horses are not the sort to pay insurance. The only way round it would be some sort of enforced licence system, where you need to pay x amount to be allowed to keep a horse, and the money goes into a pot for humane destructions for horses in need. There are lots of flaws in that, though!

Unlike a washing machine, horses usually have several owners, so should the cost of disposal etc be shared by them all, or only by the last owner?
 
windand rain said:
True but my point was that although any sensible caring owner wouldnt give a damn about the money it is a shame that those that pay inusrance are then not covered for the things they expected on welfare grounds
Click to expand...

That is exactly why we don't insure and is something all owners should take into account when deciding whether/how much cover to insure for. Insurance companies are money-making businesses not horse supporting charities. I do wonder why many more people don't just open a savings account.
 
As my mother used to say, £5 is a lot of money if you don't have it.

Death is inevitable. I suspect many horses get passed around because the owners can't afford to pts and dispose of the corpse and can see those costs are coming close. If that expense could somehow be built into the purchase price I'm suggesting that there might be fewer of these oldies doing the rounds and people might think twice about buying in the first place. Insurance for vet fees is an entirely different matter as they are not inevitable.

Anyway, the consensus seems to be that the idea has merit but is unworkable. I can accept that.
 
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