Insurance position if friend liveries (DIY) with me

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fatbird

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I have my horses at home and have a spare stable. A friend is horsehunting and wants to keep her future new horse with me.
The deal would have to be accommodation in exchange for her buying haylage or feed, or something that we share, as I am not a business (and don't want to be). It would be a 'favour for a favour' sort of arrangement.
What issues can you good people see with this?
 
Insurance is very expensive, you might also get caught for business rates.

Wht happens in the summer when you won't be feeding hay etc?
 
I don't intend to get insurance (beyond what I have for myself already) but I'm a bit nervous about what risk this might expose me to.
I guess in summer, unless we still need to feed, she gets stabling for nothing....
 
I guess if no money's changing hands you're not strictly speaking running a business but I'd make sure your friend is fully insured, including publlic liability insurance.

In summer could she not do poo picking to earn her keep?

Are you sure you want to do this? You need to think about things like who foots the bill for maintenance and repairs to your friend's stable? Who pays if her horse damages, for example, your fencing?

I've known such arrangements end friendships while others have endured amicably for years!
 
You're probably best off asking someone in the know but then no doubt someone on here will be knowledgeable about these arrrangements.

As far as business is concerned, I wouldn't think you'd have to worry about this too much as even if she was paying livery you wouldn't be earning enough money from her to constitute you running a business. That is my understanding anyway.

I would however ensure you have some agreement as to maintenence etc as you don't want to be footing the bill for everything should say her horse break fencing etc as well as just day to day stuff.

Also ensure she has adequate public liability insurance and I would ask to see a copy of this just in case the horse should escape or cause an incident whilst on your land.
 
Thanks for your thoughts.
In truth, I'm not entirely sure I want to do it, I expect it will complicate my life no end. However I'm not sure how I can say 'no' to a friend when the stable is just sitting there, unless there is a pretty strong 'out of my hands' kind of argument against it!
 
fatbird said:
Thanks for your thoughts.
In truth, I'm not entirely sure I want to do it, I expect it will complicate my life no end. However I'm not sure how I can say 'no' to a friend when the stable is just sitting there, unless there is a pretty strong 'out of my hands' kind of argument against it!
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You can say no - and I certainly would in your shoes, if you're not prepared to address the legalities that will come with the arrangement.
 
I have 2 spare stables & now won't let them to anyone, including friends.
It's broken 1 friendship & caused me to tell 2 DIY liveries to go after damage done & not paid for etc & other problems that have arisen over the past 7 yrs or so.

I came to the conclusion (and have since found out too) that its actually cheaper to just have mine & nobody else - and still pay a good neighbour to come in & do mine when I have to be away at all.

Less on insurance (now only BHS gold membership)
No damage due to someone else forgetting to shut gates/doors etc.
No messy stables of mine due to others coming in at different times.
I know when mine are fed & done, not worrying about others doing theirs & leaving mine out/in.
and finally - not being landed with theirs when they decide to go away for any length of time.

Good luck - it may poss upset a friendship now by saying no, but in the long term you might just keep your mate :)

ps: gets some small livestock in there asap - chickens are great & you can blame it on the OH :D
 
Hi, I have a similar situation a friend keeps her 2 horses with me and it is great. We can share turning out/fetching in etc and gives me someone to ride with also means horse not left alone while other goes out. We do have differences of opinion about stuff and it can be annoying and difficult when it is your land/stables etc and someone else treats it like their own and does things differently to you, but for me the pros far outweigh the cons. I have my land and stables insured because if someone trespasses on your land and gets injured trying to steal stuff they can actually sue you!!!!! Personally think this is a stupid law but I am not willing to take the risk. I told my insurer about friend keeping horses there and it wasn't a problem, no increase in premium. I did some looking into the business rates thing too and apparently unless your stables is 'within the curtilage (sp) of your home' then you are supposed to pay business rates anyway even if they are just for private use! Another stupid rule! ggggrrrrr flipping government, don't get me started on that one! lol!
 
as the landowner you are legally liable for all the stock on your land whether you own them or not. so if your friends horse escapes and causes a pile up on the road it will be you as the land owner who will be liable. the bartering system is still business as you indirectly are profiting from her being there. turnover/profit doesnt really decide whether you are a business or not. if you are keeping her horse for gain then you would be liable for business rates. fatbird if you are not prepared to get the insurance that you require to protect yourself then i would suggest you fill the stable with junk (easily done) and say sorry but no can do.
 
My advice for what its worth is to get the whole thing on a proper footing from the word go. Don't go for any "grace and favour" thing, coz if it all goes t!ts up its even worse if its a friend involved.

Have a proper loan arrangement in place (you can download one from the BHS website - a lot of it is irrelevant to DIY but it will give you a good idea); I personally wouldn't have anyone (especially a friend!) in the yard without one - its just not worth it.

OK, so you might want to have a "favours for favours" arrangement in place instead of money changing hands, BUT this will need to be in writing in the loan agreement.

Plus points are that this actually might work out very well for everyone; but personally I'd be cautious and get that loan agreement sorted! Do everything you need to do re. insurance/personal liability etc first, and go into it with your eyes open - and enjoy! - it might just work out fine for both of you! Good luck.
 
Thanks everyone for your input.
I'm sure there will be times when it's nice to have company, and she will be able to help me out sometimes. My main worry is that, being on site all the time will mean that I end up doing far more for her than she can do for me. That sounds very selfish I expect, but as she works long hours, I can imagine ending up doing both ends of the day, and even things like poo picking will be more difficult for her to fit in.
I will investigate a written agreement if only to prompt me to try and have the discussion of these issues up front.
Thanks again for some helpful thoughts.
 
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