Insurance PTS Question

Gleeful Imp

Gleeful Imp

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I'm posting this on behalf of my friend who is going through a very difficult time with her much much loved horse. He has arthritis in his coffin joint and (I think, his fetlock) in both fronts and is now at the point he is lame on 3 bute a day, and we are beginning to feel we are reaching the end with him. When he was last x-rayed about a month ago, it was a very fine line as to pts then or keep going given the level of deterioration.

There is no point having a discussion about turning away/being a companion, as it is the level of pain/lameness that is the issue, not whether he is in the field or working.

So its all abaout doing the right thing for him (oh so heartbreaking, and he was a "mend your heart" horse after my friend lost her 7 year old with navic). But the hard question she doesn't know the answer to is whether, when he is pts, will she be able to claim on her insurance as its humane destruction but not an "immediate must do now" issue?

Your experiences on this would be welcome, but please, loaning as a companion is not an option as the issue is the level of pain.

Thanks

Thorntons special toffee all round
 
Why don't you suggest to your friend that she takes her vets advice because he would have the experience of dealing with the various insurance companies? He/she should know which companies make which recommendations - and if your vet is in agreement that the horse has to be PTS, I can't see the insurance company arguing with that. Once your firend has picked her vet's brains, she might find that she needs to tell her insurance company as I am pretty sure that (unless it is an emergency) they need notification.
 
When my boy was PTS the insurance just asked for comfirmation that he was PTS "under DEFRA guildelines".

Call the company and check if you like, and definitly speak to your vet. They'll know all about it and say whether they'll be able to report to the company that they did it under these "DEFRA guidelines"
 
When Tiggy was put to sleep it was when we realized that she could not survive. Both rear suspensory ligaments were chronically damaged. She was not pts immediately on diagnosis as we thought she would be okay as a field ornament. When I realised she wasn't going to be, I spoke to the vets and they confirmed my fears - my vet had been taking it easy on me. I claimed under my insurance and the insurance company paid up, after a couple of painful discussions and a letter from my vet to the insurance company.

Hugs to your friend and you.
 
She really needs to discuss this with the insurance company. Sre they currently paying for treatment for the arthritis and how long has this condition been treated for? An insurance company are unlikely to pay out on death cover if the horse has been suffering from the condition for more than 12mths so she does really need to check with her insurance company if the cover is there.

If the cover is there then providing the horse is PTS under BEVA guidelines then it should be covered but get the insurance company to confirm this to your friend and their vet before the horse is PTS. too many people go ahead and do what they believe or what is right BEFORE consulting the insurance company and then try fight to claim which is not the way to do it and that is when it causes upset.
 
My horse is going to be pts we are just waiting until we hear from insurance company, we can not do it untill NFU have made their decision on whether they will pay or not :(

I phoned my insurance company and asked what i needed to do, and as they had allready paid out vet's fees for this injury i just needed a mortality report from my vet, listing what treatment had been done etc. and if the vet felt that Harvey met the "criteria" listed in the BEVA mortality guidelines.

So sorry for your friend it is an awful position to be in, i know.
 
She needs to inform her insurance company once the vet has agreed that pts is the best option but to be safe, as it isnt an emergency, she then needs to wait to pts. I dont think she can make that decision alone as such. Then the insurance company should speak with the vet or ask for a report. Then you have to wait for them to say they will pay out. Then you can PTS.


I know it isnt about whether you get paid out as the horses welfare comes first but if you do it by the book you may at least get something back for the premiums paid.
 
Really appreciate the responses guys - thanks. I'd forgotten about the BEVA guidelines.

My friend will be talking to her vet in the next couple of days but there's nothing like the mine of experience on here to help. Although I've lost 2, one was a badly broken leg and whilst the other one wasn't, I just can't remember anything about insurance etc - but I seem to have some major chunks of memory missing around losing Henry :(

Many thanks all. Tis a difficult time, with lots of tears. He is very on/off with the extent of lameness which is like living on a knife edge.
 
Just a quick note to make you aware the BEVA guidelines to what constitutes a requirement for immediate humane destruction are quite tight and do not generally cover chronic conditions. Some insurers will accept a vet's recommendation if there is no treatment available on a chronic condition but they can and do take each case on it's merits.

Even after them paying out many, many thousands on five claims over the space of 18 months and being crippled by ringbone My girl didn't meet the criteria for immediate HD.

After liaising with them prior to her being pts and being told they would consider her case my insurers initially told me that they would not pay out for euthanasia, but after my vet and I wrote explaining that even on 6 danilon a day she couldn't remain paddock sound, plus the Vet recommended steroid treatment had failed after 6 weeks instead of lasting the expected six months they agreed we'd had no choice and her quality of life was so poor it did warrant her being pts.
 
I hope your friend gets the right answers from both her vet and company.

While I can understand the need to liase with an insurance company in cases like these, I honestly fail to see the 'rightness' of keeping an animal going just because the company refuses to pay out. They don't know the horse, they are just trying to avoid paying out, it is so morally wrong of them to prolong suffering on monetary grounds alone IMV.
 
Maesfen said:
I hope your friend gets the right answers from both her vet and company.

While I can understand the need to liase with an insurance company in cases like these, I honestly fail to see the 'rightness' of keeping an animal going just because the company refuses to pay out. They don't know the horse, they are just trying to avoid paying out, it is so morally wrong of them to prolong suffering on monetary grounds alone IMV.
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Totally agree. I didn't get "approval" until nearly 2 months after I'd had my girl pts. She needed to be set free from the cycle of constant pain irrespective of what the insurers said.
 
I agree with Maesfen and Twirly, I think its a bit unfair to keep the horses going pending the outcome of insurance correspondence, if he needs to go he needs to go!
I do hope you get the right decisions but ultimately I would do what I thought was right regardless of the Insurance company
 
Maesfen and Twirly yes you have the view that many people do and being the the postion where you can see your horse is in pain and needs to be euthanased I understand how frustrating it is having to get 'permission' to have your horse PTS. However, that is from you as a horse owner's point of view, an insurance company is there to pay valid claims and, as much as your case may well be valid, for every one like it there are several others that aren't and are just cases where the owner does not want to or does not see the point of keeping the horse alive/treating it over a longer term and they just go ahead and have it put down because ot is not fit for the purpose they insured it for and they think they can just claim the insurance money for it to get another one.

That's all good and well if you have loss of use cover you can do that but if you only have death cover then i'm afraid the insurance company will, unless the vet advises them otherwise and puts forward a good supporting case, see it as someone merely trying to claim the money in the first instance so hence why they do like to get more info. In the majority of cases a valid claim will be settled but it is a lot simpler if you get the go ahead from the insurer first rather than risk your claim being turned down if you submit it after the event.
 
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