Insurance renewal - ouch!

Fieldlife

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Those who self insure, how much money do get into a kitty before giving up the insurance?

I think you'd want to be able to put your hands on 5K within 30-60 days. And have decent credit card to pay in the short term.

I have 3rd party with BD, tack cover with Barclays sports equipment insurance, and catastrophe with KBIS (£300 odd a year)

Then I pay as I go. I did insure the first year of ownership.
 

SO1

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If self insuring I would want 10k put aside. Two things that are very expensive to treat are colic and ulcers.

I had three colic call outs over 12 hours and they were all out of hours and it came to over 1k. I know a lot of people say they would never operate but if you have a young horse who has a good chance of survival then it can be a very hard decision.

In Homey's case the vet said he was too old for an operation and it turned his problem was gastric impaction due to his stomach muscles no longer working properly probably due to nerve damage so no operation even if he had been young would have saved him. I did however spend 5k trying to treat him medically with a week in hospital to clear the impaction and numerous tests try to find out what the problem was before we got the devastating diagnosis and realised that within a month the impaction had returned to the point where food could be seen in his oesophagus despite being on a no long fibre diet which vet had believed might work.

Ulcer treatment can be 2k a month plus scoping which can be around 300 per scope.

When the vet told me treatments and test were going to be expensive to try and save him and I was not 100% sure the insurance would pay out I knew I had the 10K saved so I could say straight away do everything possible medically. Both the surgeon and the vet had said no operation due to his age.

In the last 3 years of his life at 17 he started getting health issues it started with needing 4 filings, he then had a suspensory injury, a year later he got tendonitis and then he had athramid for arthritis, then then gastric impaction and the glandular ulcer. I would that was probably 15k of vet treatment over those 3 years paid by the insurance plus loss of horse and the cost of PTS as insurance agreed with vets that it fell under Beva.
 

Toby_Zaphod

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I had an issue with one of my horses, he had a problem with his breathing. The vets decided that he had asthma & needed a nebuliser to administer the medication. At the time the nebuliser was in excess of £800. My vet contacted who the thought to be my insurer i.e. KBIS. KBIS informed them thsat we were no longer covered by them & even if we were KBIS do not pay for the nebuliser only the medication. We had moved our insurance to 'Horse Insurance'. It later transpired that the entire bill, medication & nebuliser were covered by Horse Insurance |& their premiums were much cheaper that KBIS. Ever since that time I have never thought of getting a quote from KBIS. They are trading on their name when actually they do not offer cover a variety of ailments when some of the lesser companied offer far move cover for a much lesser premium.
 
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poiuytrewq

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E&L or whatever they're called now (Insurance Emporium?) would probably be cheaper but you do have to pay 17% plus the excess on a claim, which might cancel out any saving on premium?
I stopped using them purely because of that. Currently have WHW for third party and accidental injury on the retired horse and ponies. My ridden horse is insured for minimal value, my choice a sit keeps the premiums down, I just have that for vet fees. I think £5000 and I paid £450 approx for the year.
 

SEL

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I had an issue with one of my horses, he had a problem with his breathing. The vets decided that he had asthma & needed a nebuliser to administer the medication. At the time the nebuliser was in excess of £800. My vet contacted who the thought to be my insurer i.e. KBIS. KBIS informed them thsat we were no longer covered by them & even if we were KBIS do not pay for the nebuliser only the medication. We had moved our insurance to 'Horse Insurance'. It later transpired that the entire bill, medication & nebuliser were covered by Horse Insurance |& their premiums were much cheaper that KBIS. Ever since that time I have never thought of getting a quote from KBIS. They are trading on their name when actually they do not offer cover a variety of ailments when some of the lesser companied offer far move cover for a much lesser premium.
Just tried an online quote - same price ☹️
 

rextherobber

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I stopped using them purely because of that. Currently have WHW for third party and accidental injury on the retired horse and ponies. My ridden horse is insured for minimal value, my choice a sit keeps the premiums down, I just have that for vet fees. I think £5000 and I paid £450 approx for the year.
It's a pity, because historically they have been the least expensive , and in my experience, have paid out promptly without quibble.
 

Melody Grey

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KBIS‘s catastrophe cover has just gone up from £300 to £400. Another ouch 😕
Ouch indeed. At £400 is it not starting to get close to premiums offered at the cheaper end of general veterinary cover (E&L and associated companies?). Even if you have exclusions, you may get more covered this way? There is also co-payment to consider.
 

Bernster

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I‘m struggling with the concept of not insuring (or ‘self insuring’) as I’ve always had equine insurance. But I think it makes no sense for me really. I’ve got 1 horse renewal quote nearly 2k with KBIS - no claims no vet issues no lou but he was more expensive to buy so that might be driving it. My mare is semi retired and probably has v little now covered under insurance. And Finn the same now as he’s had a claim for melanoma a few years ago and I suspect loads of stuff would now be excluded for him too as he had some issues recovering from surgery (which I self funded anyway as it was melanoma related).
 

w1bbler

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Those who self insure, how much money do get into a kitty before giving up the insurance?
Until the day they die/pts, although all vets bills are paid from their account, including vaccinations. My cat only ever saw the vet once for an infection & died age 20, her account paid for a horse back safari, lovely way to remember her 🙂
 

bouncing_ball

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KBIS‘s catastrophe cover has just gone up from £300 to £400. Another ouch 😕
Yes I am debating whether to renew cover. It covers colic, external injury, pedal bone fracture and I think joint flushing for blackthorns.

I had a horse with uninsured deep puncture wound last year with was about £1K (after I had enquired about the cover, before I took it out).
 

Squeak

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The world horse welfare membership is well worth looking at for those of you that want a bit more support when self insuring:


Their policy is more comprehensive than Harry Hall's equivalent and has no limit on the number of horses that you can have.

It is limited but it will cover external injuries and subsequent issues from an external injury. It also gives you your third party and public liability insurance too.

I've claimed on it once before and they did pay out.
 

criso

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I pay £31 month for SEIB veteran cover which is pretty much the same as catastrophe cover but that was renewed in Sept so may be more now. I added tack onto it as an optional extra so would be cheaper without. They have a few tiers of vets fees and I don't have the highest. It includes public liability and personal accident as standard so I cancelled my BHS membership.

You can put a horse that isn't a veteran on it but you can't then switch back to full cover if you decide in the future you need more. I had so many exclusions, It's worth it for me as it's quite easy to get over £1000 for an injury with an out of hours call out, expensive antibiotics, stitches and a couple of follow up visits.
 

AShetlandBitMeOnce

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I insure with Agria on their lifetime cover, it's £22.50pm which includes their tier for backing and breaking activities (which also covers general riding, unaff etc). The excess is fixed +25% but I figured I am essentially paying £22.50 for just under 75% discount on vets fees which was worth it in my eyes. I did want to have him for LOU, but as he was £7k it pushed all of the insurance options up to over £80pcm which I'm just not willing to pay.

I don't plan on telling my vets I am insured until I absolutely have to so that it doesn't cloud their investigation options when/if it comes to it. I would also just fund anything £1k and under. I only insured at all in case of anything big happening like colic or ulcers or similar.
 

SEL

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^^^^ that seems really cheap.

Microcob renewal is through from petplan and it's gone up to over £650. It was under £400 last year.
 

AShetlandBitMeOnce

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^^^^ that seems really cheap.

Microcob renewal is through from petplan and it's gone up to over £650. It was under £400 last year.
This is the tier I am on:
1684841495149.png

and these are the three levels of cover you can have - I have gone for the lowest (I thought I had gone for the middle, rubbish memory!), but will up it to the middle one when he is in work most likely. Even £44.20 isn't much per month really, for £6.5k per year cover, and they will pay out for recurring injuries up to the limit per year.

1684841546011.png

he doesn't have any vet history or exclusions or claims currently so that will likely help to lower the cost though.
 

Northern Hare

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When you self insure, as I do, it's always revealing just how many diagnostic procedures are shelved as being unnecessary 🤔.

My vet knows that I self insure but will always stump up for what needs doing, but she cuts out the frills. She's talked me out getting bone scans and MRIs before, though I was the one suggesting getting them done. 'No, we'll try this first'. And 'we don't need those images, but we do need these ones'.

She was also right to overrule my instinct to swerve getting my mare scoped for foregut ulcers and to go straight for gastroguard, even though she, me and another vet thought that she almost certainly had them. She scoped clear.

I'm afraid that vets are well aware that insured horses have up to £x k available to throw at them for diagnostics and treatment, but only for a year, and for *some* vets that exerts an undue influence on what they recommend to the owner.

Totally agree TP

I'm convinced that if the insurance companies somehow managed to do away with the "your Claim is open for 12 months" restriction, that claims would decrease - and then possibly premiums could decrease? At the moment, as far as I see it, owners are pushed down the route of full diagnostics and treatment / "try everything as the horse is insured scenario", at the start of the 12 month claim period, just in case it takes the year to sort out. Surely if owners had more time, they could possibly decide with their vet to turn the horse away for a period of time before commencing treatment? Or possibly start with less expensive treatment options....
 
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expanding_horizon

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Ouch indeed. At £400 is it not starting to get close to premiums offered at the cheaper end of general veterinary cover (E&L and associated companies?). Even if you have exclusions, you may get more covered this way? There is also co-payment to consider.

Not sure, I am looking. I had KBIS catastrophe last year, and it is renewal at start of June. Last year was £300 this year £400.

Harryhall, is £177 (plus £10 membership) for £3,000 vet fees in total for external injury that breaks skin. (£427 if add on colic cover

KBIS is £400 for £7,500 of claims a year, Accidental External Injuries only, Colic Surgery, Joint or Tendon, Flushing as a result of Sepsis or Surgery for Pastern and Pedal Bone Fractures.

World horse welfare is £145 with excess £165 and limit of £1,500 claims per year for external injury that breaks skin.

Any other veteran policy I have looked at is coming in a lot more expensive (some include liability / tack / personal accident / death / disposal etc. and even those can exclude these are £700-800 per year)

I think as I am moving to a field with a foot path through it (fenced off) in June. So new environment, new grass, risk of people feeding horses (hopefully signed and fenced off so cannot reach will work), mean that it is worth having decent accidental injury and colic cover for at least the next 12 months. So will renew with KBIS when I get paid.

I am happy self insuring for any other type of lameness / dental allergy or other issue.
 

Toby_Zaphod

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Just tried an online quote - same price ☹️
Yes, you may get a similar quote but you will find that somethings are not actually covered. KBIS will pay for the medication but will not pay for a nebuliser which costs in excess of £800. You never know how good or bad your insurance cover is until you make a claim.
 

Widgeon

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I insure with Agria on their lifetime cover, it's £22.50pm which includes their tier for backing and breaking activities (which also covers general riding, unaff etc). The excess is fixed +25% but I figured I am essentially paying £22.50 for just under 75% discount on vets fees which was worth it in my eyes. I did want to have him for LOU, but as he was £7k it pushed all of the insurance options up to over £80pcm which I'm just not willing to pay.

This is very interesting. The £44 pm looks like a really good option....I'm paying about £700 pa for my insurance and that's with a £500 excess. None of my claims are above a couple of thousand so I'd be just as well covered on this policy. And if we did rack up a £10K bill then I can afford to pay 25% - I'd just rather not.
 

expanding_horizon

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This is very interesting. The £44 pm looks like a really good option....I'm paying about £700 pa for my insurance and that's with a £500 excess. None of my claims are above a couple of thousand so I'd be just as well covered on this policy. And if we did rack up a £10K bill then I can afford to pay 25% - I'd just rather not.

I looked a while ago but my quote with them was a lot more than £44pcm. I think competing BD elementary upwards makes it more.
 

criso

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Any other veteran policy I have looked at is coming in a lot more expensive (some include liability / tack / personal accident / death / disposal etc. and even those can exclude these are £700-800 per year)
I assume you tried SEIB, I had to ring up to get a quote as my horse isn't a veteran.

I'm sure they've gone up now but in autumn they were cheaper than kbis and included public liability/personal accident do I cancelled my BHS membership.

However I took the level of cover down as didn't need 7.5k. I may have done the same with kbis though when I was comparing.
 

expanding_horizon

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I assume you tried SEIB, I had to ring up to get a quote as my horse isn't a veteran.

I'm sure they've gone up now but in autumn they were cheaper than kbis and included public liability/personal accident do I cancelled my BHS membership.

However I took the level of cover down as didn't need 7.5k. I may have done the same with kbis though when I was comparing.

I think i tried all main ones. Went with KBIS catastrophe, Barclays sport for tack and BD for liability.
 

expanding_horizon

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It wasn't an option from their website, I had to call but I'm getting tack, public liability and the horse cover for £31 per month but I might not get that price today.
But are you a high activity score? Competing BD elementary upwards pushes you into highest risk activity group.
 

criso

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But are you a high activity score? Competing BD elementary upwards pushes you into highest risk activity group.
As it was accident only, I don't think that has as much of an influence but no I wouldn't be asking for that. However that would have applied for the KBIS quote too. I used the same criteria and they were a little under £400 so not that far from what you are paying.

I was comparing SEIB, KBIS and Shearwater catastrophe policy or equivalent.

Shearwater I was with but were only offering it for existing renewals. They had removed tack and it wasn't an add on anymore.

KBIS and SEIB were similar in price but slightly different. SEIB included public liability and personal accident automatically but I could cancel my BHS so that saved £80 If you're a member of BD for competing, then you'd be doubling up so a policy that doesn't include it may be better.

The only reason I mentioned it was that they don't publicise this option. The website says for horses over a certain age but you can call and they will quote an accident only policy for a younger horse.
 
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AShetlandBitMeOnce

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This is very interesting. The £44 pm looks like a really good option....I'm paying about £700 pa for my insurance and that's with a £500 excess. None of my claims are above a couple of thousand so I'd be just as well covered on this policy. And if we did rack up a £10K bill then I can afford to pay 25% - I'd just rather not.
That was my exact view, the excess looks high but I could afford 25% of a colic surgery or similar so it’s worth it, for me, to reduce the monthly payment
 

expanding_horizon

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As it was accident only, I don't think that has as much of an influence but no I wouldn't be asking for that. However that would have applied for the KBIS quote too. I used the same criteria and they were a little under £400 so not that far from what you are paying.

I was comparing SEIB, KBIS and Shearwater catastrophe policy or equivalent.

Shearwater I was with but were only offering it for existing renewals. They had removed tack and it wasn't an add on anymore.

KBIS and SEIB were similar in price but slightly different. SEIB included public liability and personal accident automatically but I could cancel my BHS so that saved £80 If you're a member of BD for competing, then you'd be doubling up so a policy that doesn't include it may be better.

The only reason I mentioned it was that they don't publicise this option. The website says for horses over a certain age but you can call and they will quote an accident only policy for a younger horse.

KBIS catastrophe was £397

Various veteran accident only quotes I got were coming in as more. Some did have tack / disposal / liability as a non removable option.
 
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