Insurance - worth bothering with?

alsxx

alsxx

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 January 2006
Messages
3,233
Location
Moved to Devon!
Visit site
This has probably been done to death before, so apologies!

I'm wondering whether to continue insuring mine for vets fee's etc....I don't bother with LOU for mine, however all are covered for vets fees, death and disposal, 3rd party etc, probably some tack thrown in there also.

I shell out well over a £100 each month, I have only ever had to claim once which turned out to be a disaster with the insurers and I may as well have not had her insurered TBH. Most of it ended up coming out of my pocket. Last weeks H&H's insurance article made me laugh with the check list to ensure you have a hassle free claim, as I could tick each one off and still had major hassle!!

In my experience I have also found because I had insurance I had no choice but to continue with all manner of investigations etc and really wonder what would have happened had I just thrown her out in the field. Going forward, if I ever have a slightly lame horse again, I will probably do the field rest route and then see what happens....but that doesn't really work with insurance as you only have a year to claim, so either way I'd have to pay out myself.

Anyway, thoughts please? I have one who is 19 and insurered with PP so is covered until he is 25.....so I am a bit reluctant to stop the cover for him, but as he is virtually retired I would probably not bother investigating anything anyway, unless he had colic or managed to injure himself someway.

Can you take out policies to over 3rd party, and maybe something like colic? I've heard of the 3rd party cover with the BHS, does anyone have this?
 
Depends on the individual to be honest. At the every minimum definitely get PL cover somewhere.

As for vets fees, well that's entirely up to you - it does work out quite costly but only seems like you're throwing money away if you don't use it. Would you ahve other means to get a few thousand pounds if needs be if your horses needed treatment? If so then maybe remove the cover option and save in a separate account.

Struggling to get insurers to settle a claim is an entirely different matter and is down the the inidvidual company.

We never used to insure for vets fees but, touch wood have never either had any major vets bills/illnesses etc. I have included it in my sister's horse's cover but that's mainly cos he had treatment for a sarcoid (we didn't claim) and it was the first largish vets bill we had (plus I get an considerable discount as i work for the insurance company!).

If you have tack on, look at removing this maybe? If you have household contents insurance it may be as well to see if you can include tack in this as often you get broader cover than on an equine policy anyway.
 
Well, I always have insured mine however the one time I ever claimed became a very costly exercise as well as making my life an absolute nightmare for the best part of a year, which makes me wonder what the point is?

I think I may do a pro's and cons list.
 
With an older horse I am not so sure it is worth it. I mean would you put a 20 year old horse through a colic operation ? I personally would not.

I don't understand the comment that you felt forced to persue investigations because you were insured ? No insurance company expects you to spend their money - that is always down to you.

The problem with vet fees is that they can mount up horrendously quickly, for quite simple wounds. I think over £100 per month would be too much for me to want to spend.

TP is something I always have, but you can get that with Gold BHS membership.
 
Yes there is tack on one policy which I will remove.

I would want PL cover from somewhere, that is a definate requirement.

If for example one needed colic surgery, then yes I could get the money. I will probably just carry on regardless with it, but I really do wonder if its a waste of time and money given my one experience of needing to claim!
 
I have always thought of insurance as peace of mind.
Never had to claim on cats insurance,but know that should something go wrong with my second baby,the insurance will cover it.
I would consider insurance for horse even more important,as when things go wrong the bill can run to thousands very quickly.

But it is up to the individual-some people are happy to go without.
As long as you are able to sort out installments or lay your hands on some cash should something happen,then the horse wont worry about lack of insurance.
 
Can you get your hands on a few thousand pounds in an emergency? If not are you willing to have a horse PTS in the event you cannot afford vet's treatment?

The answer to those 2 questions should tell you if you are in a position to insure or not.

However as a happy compromise it would be worth speaking to KBIS. They do tailor made cover and I'm pretty sure they do an external injury + colic cover. Plus they will insure your horse for well below market value, so you can say death of horse for £100 to keep premium lower.

For around £50 a year BHS Gold membership will give you 10 million liability
 
I don't understand the comment that you felt forced to persue investigations because you were insured ? No insurance company expects you to spend their money - that is always down to you.

I had a vet look at the horse who recommended a lameness workup, got insures permission, workup commenced with insurers wanting to know the outcome and what was wrongwith the horse.

If you are insurered, you need to let the insureres know if there is a 'problem', you then only have a year if you wish to claim. As an honest customer, I told my insureres who would not accept the claim until after they had the vet report, had I not had the vet report I would have had my claim rejected and still had exclusions whacked on my policy. Its a no win situation really. Thats before the rest of the issues with my insurer kicked in (turned out they didn't like me vet!)
 
put what you pay in insurance each month in a separate account and leave it there if you have the will power! that way, you have an ammount to fall back on in a veterinary emergency, and if you dont ever have to claim, the money is still yours.
 
I had to insure as i dont have thousands in the bank if something did go wrong.
However I only have the neccessary insurance and no extras.

He is insured for £500 (worth well above that, proberbly £2k+ that but im not fussed about getting money back as he was gifted) I also have 5k vets fees and 1million public liability. I have kept costs down by not insuring tack,dispoasl,lou etc and it works out about £20 a month with petplan.

It might be worth looking into reducing your insurance but not scrapping it alltogether.
 
With insurance you are basically swapping potentially 'lumpy' payments (e.g. nothing for years and then a huge colic bill and then nothing again) for the security of a steady stream of little payments. And for providing this service the insurance company need to make a profit.

So, if you can afford to payout potentially thousands for each of your horses at once (we're talking worst case here but that is what you have to consider) then on average (obviosuly depends on how lucky your horses is) you'll be better off not being insured becasue then you won't have to let the insurers make any profit. If however you couldn't afford it then you're better off with the insurance.

PL could result in you having to pay out hundreds of thousands of pounds (think horse casuing car accident between ferrari and rolls royce both full of passengers who all end up seriously injured). So very, very few people are better of not insuring for that.
 
I don't insure and most people I know don't either. IMHO the equine insurance market is very pro-provider at the moment and needs a good shake up. I would insure for peace of mind and they just can't provide that (I had a young, sound, healthy horse insured with KBIS and they excluded 2 of her legs and her entire wind and related conditions because of minor comments on the vet's report, despite my never claiming). I don't like the idea of exclusions unless it is reasonably forseeably more likely to occur again than not. You don't generally get that in other insurance markets so why put up with it?

I don't like the essential items that are mostly not included with vet's fees, such as stabling costs.

I don't like having no choice but to buy into the extensive investigations and treatment industry.

I would rather bear the expense of treatment myself, knowing that I was controlling the limit and what treatment would be given to my horse. I do have third party insurance.
 
Headless, I completely agree with you. Having insured my horses for 9 years, having never made a claim, my insurance was going up every year. Insurance companies are quick to exclude problems but your premium will always remain the same despite maybe the back half of the horse not being covered. I am all for a 'shake up' in the horse insurance industry.

I also don't think vets help the insurers either. 'Some' vets eyes go 'ker-ching' when they know it's an insurance claim.

I recently paid for treatment myself and I couldn't believe how low the bill was for x-rays. I bet if it was an insurance claim it would have been more?

When my premium comes up for renewal next year, I am going to adjust my policy dramatically i.e. not do LOU, tack and insure my horse for £500 instead of £5,000! Alternatively I could put the £70pcm I pay for my horse in the bank and TRY not to touch it!
 
In the last 3 months, our mare has had stomach ulcer treatment: £8000.
Kissing Spines: £5000.
Had we not been insured, she'd have been put down.

My dog:
Stomach surgery: £3000.
Had we not been insured, she'd have died from a ruptured stomach.

SO, yes!

xxxx
 
I don't insure my horses, but I do have public liabilty as I am a BHS gold member. The reason I don't insure is due to the cost. If you have a horse competing at a resonably high level the cost is extortionate (sp). I was quoted £6000 a year to insure my intermediate event horse, and that was excluding tendon injuries in his front legs!!!!!! To insure all my horses was going to be well over £10000 a year, with various exclusions for each one. IMO it is not worth it. I put the money I would be spending on insurance in a seperate horsey bank account, so it is collecting interest, and is there when need it. In the past 3 years since I stopped insuring I have put aside £30000, (which would have gone to an insurance company, and now be gone). This will cover vets fees, plus means I could afford another horse if necessary.
 
In the first 2 years of having her my mare racked up £7,500 in vets fees. So even with £500 a year premium I am up for a good few years yet.
My old mare i had 20 years insured on ave for around £300 pa, & only claimed a couple of times.
I like the backup of knowing that ifshe needs treatment i can just say yes & hopefully not have to worry too much.
Headless_Horsewoman I had a sim problem with KBIS in fairmness i had claimed but they wanted to exlude the whole of both hind legs when it was a ligament problem & her respiratory system when she had a bacterial infection.
So i had her five stage vetted by my vets & shearwaters took her on with just an exclusion on the ligament - fiar enough i felt.
But KBIS to be fair did pay up well & on time & with no quibble.
 
Headless Horsewoman, you summed up beautifully what it was I trying rather badly to put down in writing.

I posted in soapbox the other day that I have just under £10k of debt sat on a credit card which is about 95% from my horses vets bills when the insurers decided to not pay up after they had accepted my claims (3 altogether) - and thats after the financial ombudsman got me some of my money back!!

So this is why I am wondering if its just money down the drain....as it wasn't a safety blanket for me at all!

If I do get rid of my vets fee cover insurance and I could not afford to put a horse through major emergency surgery (tbh my mum would contribute and I could source a good few thousand myself) then yes I would pts.

Also, I do wonder whether vets are more realistic with diagnosis procedures when you are not insured?
 
I do wonder if it's worth it sometimes. I've prob spent somewhere between 500-700 this yr but seen as my excess is 500, there has been no point in claiming for anything, plus they would have a field day excluding. However, had my bill run into thousands then it definitely would have been worth it. I only insure for vets bills, just couldn't justify LOU at the time as it was just getting silly.

Also, Alsxx you are right re vets being more realistic when not insured.....
 
Just to sum up re actual insurance companies - they are made out to be the bad guys a lot of the time but in general most do pay for valid claims and do not insist on horses having certain ops/procedures - generally they go on the vet's advice/2nd opinion vets advice. A lot of the time yes vets do decide a horse NEEDS this, NEEDS that etc the minute they find out the horse is insured.

We had one vet (on a claim) who HAD to come out every day to change a dressing on a orse (for a minor wound a horse owner could easily do themselves). The amount the vet charged for each call out, the visit itself and the extortionate amount for cotton wool and vet wrap was unbelievable!!

Insurance companies do NOT make really any profit from horse policies. In fact, in general they run at a loss/very low profit as in general individual premiums are low but the potential loss (ie £200 premium against £5000 vets bill) is high.

That is why premiums increase although if you are indeed claim free then why not try contacting the insurer to see if they can reduce premiums? You'd do that with you car insurance etc so why not with horse. If you're not happy with exclusions again, contact you insurer or shop about.

Not all horse policies are underwritten by people with in depth horse knowledge so any negative thing mentioned on a vet cert would be excluded if that is what their company rules state. If you talk to an underwriter or company who are bit more 'in the know' then they may underwrite the risk differently.

At the end of the day, it's your money, it's your choice an insurance company can't MAKE you insure you horse!
 
I insure my horse for his full value which is fairly expensive. I get the liability insurance through British Dressage because I'm a member (BHS offer this to their members also). I took my tack off the policy to save money. I also wish I didn't have this monthly outgoing cost...but must say in retrospect that it has been a Godsend. At the end of the summer 2009 my horse had a nasty accident in his box that damaged his face quite badly. An emergency vet had to come out, and over the next couple fo months he had about 4 operations - the total so far is about £3,500, and there is still one more operation needed. Additionally, earlier in the summer he went lame - the veterinary investigations into the cause for this can be extremely expensive - nerve blocking, Xrays, MRI scans... these things happen when you least expect it, so it's always best to insure your baby, even if it's just for the vet's fees.
I hope this helps.
cool.gif
 
I agree it's better to put money in a savings account than to rely on insurance, with all its exclusions. I have found out that my vets will accept payment by instalments if required, so with no need to pay a lump sum then self-insurance looks even more attractive.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top