Integrating a weanling into an established herd

[RIDMagic]

I have read and heard various conflicting opinions about this, and it has left me wondering if I am doing the right thing.
I am planning on buying a weanling later this year. The yard I have chosen has an established herd of various ages and breeds, but no youngsters. They have a small section of field available for all day winter turnout, although most of the horses are stabled 24/7 through winter. Only a couple go out daily in winter. my weanling would be out through they day and stabled at night.
Now the question is, is it ok to bring a weanling into an environment with no other youngsters? Some say no, they need the company of other weanlings in order to learn play and develop self confidence. With older horses it will continually be put in its place, so to speak, and could end up depressed and even lonely.
However there are people who are willing to stable their youngsters 24 7 through winter (which I totally disagree with) seemingly without any negative consequences.
So what are everyone's thoughts? Is it ok for me to buy a single weanling? Has anybody done this successfully, or maybe done this and had problems?

 

[AmyMay]

I wouldnt even begin to consider what you're planning. It will most likely be dead within a day or so.

 

[RIDMagic]

Would you care to elaborate on your (dramatic and unnecessary) reply? How exactly will it be killed?!

 

[hayinamanger]

I would not do this. Your weanling is likely to be very badly hurt, even killed by the established herd.

 

[RIDMagic]

Can I just clarify that as I said in my original post, the weanling would only be turned out with 2 other horses at first. it would only go out with the herd next summer, as a yearling. I acknowledge your reply, but surely they have to go out with the herd sooner or later, so at what age does it become ok to turn them all out together? Bearing in mind that there is an indoor school which I can make use of during the winter to gradually introduce my youngster to each horse if necessary. Are you saying it would be safer within a herd if there were 2 you weanlings together?

 

[AmyMay]

You asked for thoughts, I gave you mine. Neither was unessary or dramatic. It will be like a lamb to the slaughter - literally.

 

[hayinamanger]

No, I'm not saying that two weanings would be safer than one turned out in a herd, far from it. Young horses should be turned out in groups of their own age. An established herd of older horses will be very violent towards new horses being introduced. They will not make any exceptions for babies. If you had ever witnessed such a terrifying event, you would not even be considering it. Keep babies together in a separate field, let them see the other horses, ideally not directly over the fence, so that they can all get used to each other, and then, after months rather than weeks, gradually introduce one or two of the quieter ones.

 

[Spring Feather]

What situation is the foal living in right now? Is it part of a herd or is it a singleton foal living solely with it's mother? If it is already part of a herd it will have learned herd hierarchy and will know enough to keep out of the way of horses higher up in the pecking order. Even very young foals who are accustomed to living in herds are remarkably quick on their feet and understand precarious situations and more importantly they know to move out of danger. If this is a singleton foal who has spent it's whole young life with just it's mother then this is a totally different kettle of fish and the transition needs to be very carefully managed.

 

[AmyMay]

It really doesn't matter if its allready been part of a herd of older horses. Introduced to a new herd, it will be targeted and seriously damaged.

Op, find youngstock livery if a weanling is what your after.

 

[Spring Feather]

It really doesn't matter if its allready been part of a herd of older horses. Introduced to a new herd, it will be targeted and seriously damaged.

I'm sorry but that is a ridiculous thing to say. How many foals have you integrated into new herds? I do it every single year and I have never had any foals injured let alone killed. My foals have never met the horses I wean all my foals with until a few days after weaning day. I use the same horses every year to nanny the weanlings.

It makes a MASSIVE difference if the foal lives in a herd compared to it solely living with just it's mother pre-weaning. A foal living with just it's mother cannot possibly learn herd politics like it does when it lives as a suckling within a larger herd.

 

[monsterwillow]

Op, if the 2 the foal will be with to start with are fairly quiet horses it will probably be fine! I have on numerous occasions turned out weanlings with my herd with no problems!

If there has been any in my herd that I'm unsure of I have taken them out and then back in a day or so later when the baby has settled and made friends.

I can honestly say ive never had a problem. If there is 1 that is a nice natured nanny sort then you should be fine x

 

[RIDMagic]

Thanks for your replies. Hayinamanger, the situation you describe is ideal but unfortunately not possible in my case. I would be moving to a DIY livery yard, and there are no other youngsters, hence my concern. Of course I wouldn't dream of just throwing a weanling straight out into a field with an established herd and hoping for the best. My plan was to turn out for the first 6 months in a small area of field, always with one or two other horses. It would never be alone. Come next summer, as a yearling, it would be turned out in one large field with a herd of around 12 other horses. However, I can make use of an indoor school throughout the winter to gradually introduce my foal to the other horses individually, turning out for an hour or so every day in the school with each horse.

SpringFeather, the foal will come from an established and reputable breeder and will have been brought up in a herd with other mares and foals, so it should have a good understanding of herd dynamics. I gather from your reply that you think this should stand it in good stead for integrating into a herd?

 

[Jnhuk]

I would be careful even with just adding a youngster to even two horses. Is there any chance you could turn your weanling out with one horse first to establish a bond between the two of them? Then that horse may help the weanling

My youngster is now two (owned him since weaned) but his similar aged field mate is being sold and my friend who had them has so little grazing with this cold spring that I have had to take them both home with the plan to work on integrating him with my two geldings at home. They are calm, placid lads but despite taking time and care with the introductions (having the youngsters in the neighbouring field for a few weeks and introductions over stable doors etc done often), turning him out with the more dominant one first then the other to get used to them both individually and everything seemed to be good together after my friend took her youngster away. However after a few days, I have had to separate them again as the youngster is lame and need to give him some time when he is not having to move quickly away from the older horses for when he does something they are not happy with. Thankfully the two year's lameness is muscular and nothing serious thankfully.

Your weanling will be shell shocked at losing mum, moving home etc... as well as not knowing you. I hope that some of experienced people on here would answer to offer you helpful advice that you need. I am just trying my best too and it is a huge learning curve. I was hoping that some answers to your query might be helpful for my situation too!

 

[AmyMay]

That is the thing though SF, you have a herd of established nannies - who know their job. Massive difference.

If the op does as she proposes it will end in tears.

 

[Jnhuk]

OP - have you spoken to your weanling's breeder about your situation as I am sure they may be able to give you good advice and have the advantage that they will know the youngster.

 

[JanetGeorge]

I use the same horses every year to nanny the weanlings.

It makes a MASSIVE difference

Exactly! You can wean youngsters in with a couple of sensible older horses that you KNOW know the job. But at a livery yard - with horses of mixed sex/type and probably most with shoes on, then it would be foolish and dangerous! As would keeping it stabled in winter for 12 hours or more a day!

My weanlings live in their first winter (going out during the day unless the weather's FOUL!) but they're in BIG boxes (15x24) 2 or 3 to the box so they have lots of room to move around and friends to encourage them to do so. Too much time stabled as youngsters predisposes them to developmental disorders!

 

[Spring Feather]

SpringFeather, the foal will come from an established and reputable breeder and will have been brought up in a herd with other mares and foals, so it should have a good understanding of herd dynamics. I gather from your reply that you think this should stand it in good stead for integrating into a herd?

If the breeder is reputable then she will wean the foal at least a couple of weeks before you take the foal to it's new home. The first week of weaning is very important. With her being an established breeder she will know this and do it right. A foal raised in a herd environment always has far more skills than a singleton mother and foal combination. My 2013 foals are all 3-4 weeks old now and their mothers are no shrinking violets. These foals learned VERY quickly which mares to stay away from and which ones will tolerate them being close and they can move very quickly indeed when they need to get themselves out of a situation.

What are the horses like that you are planning to move the foal in with? What personality does the breeder say the foal has? Also if you are planning to stable the foal make sure the breeder knows this so that she can teach the foal about stabling prior to weaning. Your breeder will be your friend here, she will be the one who knows the foal best and she will give the best advice from that end, then you need to know the personalities of the potential caretakers at your end, and take it from there as to how best to plan a smooth transition for your weanling.

 

[AmyMay]

I would very much hope that the breeder, once knowing about the turnout plans would actually withdraw from the sale. It doesn't matter what situation it's come from, the weanling will have no mechanisms to protect itself being turned out into the environment the op proposes.

 

[RIDMagic]

Monsterwillow, thanks for that. It's good to hear that a smooth introduction is possible! Can I ask, how many horses are in your herd?

Jnhuk - thanks for your message. It sounds like you've really put in the time to make sure the introductions went well. I will be visiting the breeder in a few weeks and at that point I will be asking about their method of weaning, but the baby should be given enough time to get over the initial shock of leaving mum before it comes to me. I'd be interested to hear how you get on!

Amymay, I do appreciate your replies, but I find them a little unhelpful. You don't expand on your thoughts other than to say "it will be killed", which you must admit is a little dramatic if you actually read my posts. I WILL NOT just be throwing it out into a large established herd as a weanling on day one - it will be introduced gradually to each horse over a period of 6 months or so.
Some would argue that youngstock livery is not ideal, as growing up in a herd of horses of all ages and sizes makes for a healthy, well balanced horse. I have never come across this anyway so I'm pretty sure there are none in my area. I am open to the possibility that I may not be able to have a weanling if I can't provide what it needs, but comments like "it will be killed" are, I think, a little over the top in my situation.

 

[RIDMagic]

Firstly Janet George, thanks very much for your reply. Can I just clarify, do you disagree with bringing a weanling into a stable at night during winter?

SpringFeather - I have spoken to the breeder but I have not yet chosen a foal or put a deposit down, as some of the foals have not yet arrived. So I am still in a situation where I can change my mind and go for something older if I can't provide what a youngster needs (meaning turnout with other youngsters).

 

[monsterwillow]

Op, usually around six in my herd. Not always other foals either. Once had to put a 6 month old filly in with a herd of about 12! There were other youngsters but no foals. Took out the big grumpy gelding, let the foal make friends then put him back in and all was fine x

 

[Spring Feather]

That is the thing though SF, you have a herd of established nannies - who know their job. Massive difference.

Yes I do use the same horses each year who know their job and they are very good at their job, however many of the youngsters here are sold pre-weaning so those foals leave about 2 weeks after I've weaned them and move onto new homes where they are integrated into their new herds. Usually what I do is speak to the new buyers and find out their situation and I can advise them on how best to do it as I know my foals and what types of temperaments they have and how they cope in herds at home here. Again, mine have never had any mishaps or tragedies at all once at their new homes.

 

[JanetGeorge]

Firstly Janet George, thanks very much for your reply. Can I just clarify, do you disagree with bringing a weanling into a stable at night during winter?

At night is fine - as long as: 1) you don't over-feed, and 2) they can be turned out for at least 8 hours during the day. Ours stayed in rather longer than normal this year as the whole place was a swamp! But we did ensure they got plenty of exercise. And having BIG stables that will take 2 means they have more moving around space (and the incentive to move around more) when they are in.

 

[Deli]

I would not be put off at all!


I bought a small lean 9 month old filly and bought her home and then really panicked when I actually realised how small she was compared to the herd (4 older horses aged 4,5,10,18). So... I bought another one to keep her company lol (He was also 10 month gelding but bigger). Anyway they became best buddies, then one day I came up the yard and all of the horses were all out together. Haven't looked back since.

I think once horses get used to each other a fence once they meet they are fine.

So I bought the silly gelding for no reason, (now sold) and the filly is now 3 and bottom of the pecking order but it has done her good (as she was a right madam at 9 months, being fed etc.) She has manners and is a pleasure to handle as they have instilled manners into her, she doesn't play or be silly or run around and she acts like a mature horse. I have recently broken her and she has the mind of a 7 year old (perfect)

 

[HBM1]

Sorry, I am with Amymay. In your particular circumstance you are asking for trouble. If I was the breeder I would not sell him to you unless the living situation was going to be more suitable.

I do admire that you are looking ahead but please don't try to fit a baby into such a yard. It is vastly different having experienced nanny horses to DIY livery horses who can change week in week outfrom what I have seen.

Find a proper livery for your baby
If he is a long term horse for you you and he will benefit from it greatly.

 

[lindsayH]

I'm sorry, I wouldn't consider it either. The foal that mine was weaned with was killed by a kick when turned out in a mixed herd after he was sold. He was a chunky cob yearling and they grew up in a fairly big herd of youngsters and broodmares. That experience means I personally won't turn anything under two out with anything but other youngstock and broodmares. Maybe a bit paranoid but better safe than sorry.

On a more positive note, good luck with the horse hunting!

 

[JandP]

I would agree with the others that a DIY livery yard is no place for a weanling. Quite apart from horses coming and going in fields, having shoes on, not used to youngsters etc etc. it is also the PEOPLE that your youngster may come across. Some of whom will have no idea how youngsters behave, how you should behave around them and why they are different from adult horses.

The day to day practicalities of life on a DIY yard just do not suit weanlings, let alone a single one. I have a 2 year old, and he has only just been introduced into a herd of older horses (he was with his weaning companion up until then). They have 18 acres to run around in, and are all out of work so do not have shoes on and there are no comings and goings.

 

[pegasus1986]

I introduced a weanling to my established herd of 4 the herd leader being 20 years old and the youngest being 5. I first of all put him in an electrified seperate bit with the herd leader once they had bonded i introduced him to the others and because the herd leader was ok with him they didnt even run around they accepted him straight away. It can work introducing a weanling.

 

[rachyblue]

Mine joined a herd at 14 months and had no issues, a few bites on the bum and a bit of chasing, but that is normal horse behaviour no matter how old. Every time someone threatened him he did his gummy baby thing (you know what I mean - have no idea if there is actually a term for it!).

At the time the next youngest to him was 4, but they played with him quite happily. He is now 3 and has worked his way up a little, and currently has a 2 year old buddy in his herd who he loves to play with.

Would buying a yearling not be an option? Some breeders also do a buy now take later option, which may be useful.

 

[be positive]

I introduced a weanling to my established herd of 4 the herd leader being 20 years old and the youngest being 5. I first of all put him in an electrified seperate bit with the herd leader once they had bonded i introduced him to the others and because the herd leader was ok with him they didnt even run around they accepted him straight away. It can work introducing a weanling.

A big difference your herd of 4 under your control to being in a DIY group of 12 with up to 12 different owners all having their own routines, horses coming and going, probably shod, even with careful introductions this is a risk and the foal could pay the ultimate price, even a fairly minor kick could cause long term unsoundness that means it never has a ridden future.

.
If you want a foal why not look for a suitable place to keep it, there must be other options in your area that would be more youngster friendly for at least the first year.