Integrating a weanling into an established herd

[HBM1]

Pegasus, you say your established herd though - do you own them all and know all their characters inside out? Again I would say that is a far cry from your average DIY yard. Only takes one angry kick from a shod horse and whatifs become a moot point.

 

[RIDMagic]

Thanks everyone for your replies. It's great to hear that there are success stories, but it's also obviously a big risk. As some people have pointed out, a small herd of quiet and experienced 'nanny' horses is a lot different to a mixed herd of 12 DIY liveries, many of which will be shod. Although I did have a plan to slowly introduce my weanling to the herd, it seems like it would be too much of a risk for me to feel comfortable with.

As it happens, I have come across a yearling filly who is everything I am looking for, albeit a little older, and the breeder is happy to keep hold of her until October/November when the summer turnout at my yard will be finished. That way when I do bring her home, she will only be turned out with 1 or 2 other horses for the winter, and I can introduce her gradually to each horse in the school over 6 months or so. Then by the time next summer turnout comes round, she'll be 2 years old and hopefully there won't be any fireworks. Fingers crossed she's the one... looking forward to viewing her this week!

 

[Spring Feather]

As it happens, I have come across a yearling filly who is everything I am looking for, albeit a little older, and the breeder is happy to keep hold of her until October/November when the summer turnout at my yard will be finished. That way when I do bring her home, she will only be turned out with 1 or 2 other horses for the winter, and I can introduce her gradually to each horse in the school over 6 months or so. Then by the time next summer turnout comes round, she'll be 2 years old and hopefully there won't be any fireworks. Fingers crossed she's the one... looking forward to viewing her this week!

If the breeder does 24/7 turnout would he/she have space for the yearling to remain at her place until spring?

 

[RIDMagic]

I can't see why not, but why would you think that is preferable? thanks

 

[Clodagh]

Because 24/7 turnout is better for youngsters I should think.

 

[RIDMagic]

Agree completely, 24/7 turnout is always better for youngsters. But I would argue that daily handling as a youngster is also very valuable in terms of building a bond and trust, and unfortunately the breeder is too far away for me to be able to go that often.

 

[Spring Feather]

Agree completely, 24/7 turnout is always better for youngsters. But I would argue that daily handling as a youngster is also very valuable in terms of building a bond and trust, and unfortunately the breeder is too far away for me to be able to go that often.

If she is a reputable breeder then she will handled her youngsters every day so the yearling should have all the basics in place for when you take her home in the spring.

I feel more so that yearlings and 2 year olds should be out 24/7, even more strongly than I feel weanlings should be out 24/7. I keep all my youngsters out from birth. In bad weather they can come into barns if they don't want to be outside, their choice, but although all my youngsters understand the concept of stabling as I do stable them every once in a while to give them more life experience, I would not choose to stable youngsters permanently. I always find out from my buyers what their setup is like so that they can experience the setup at home and on familiar ground with their mothers before they move onto their new home.

 

[Jnhuk]

Agree completely, 24/7 turnout is always better for youngsters. But I would argue that daily handling as a youngster is also very valuable in terms of building a bond and trust, and unfortunately the breeder is too far away for me to be able to go that often.

How your youngster is allowed to develop physically now will have big impact in the future as studies support the findings that young horses that are turned out full-time develop musculoskeletal tissues that are more resistant to injury, whereas confined youngsters do not.

I personally would choose 24/7 turnout over daily handling/bond building but I am lucky to have my horses on my own land.

 

[sport horse]

I am with Amymay and Janet George with this. Over the years I have suggested to two people that it is not suitable to turn out a weanling with older horses ( except for a known older horse, without shoes who is used as a companion for the youngsters)

Both people disregarded my advice - their privelege. Both weanlings were put out with older horses and both sustained life threatening and life changing injuries after being chased over the fences of their fields. I even had to pick up the bits (literally) of one of them as the owner was too traumatised to be able to help the vets!

If you dont want advice from those who may (or may not) have more experience than you then dont ask for advice. However in my opinion (and it is my opinion only) to purchase a young horse when you do not have the facilities to care for it, is very remiss and could be considered cruel. I reiterate that is only my honest opinion but you did initiate this post asking for peoples' thoughts so do not be too touchy if you do not get the replies that you hoped.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Is it not possible to find a different situation? Like a yard with youngstock? I'm assuming you're getting a youngster so he/she bonds with you and you can have your partner. The best thing you can do for baby is appropriate company and not be concerned with perfection and "bonding". I know that sounds harsh but it's the only reason I can think why someone would consider this route.

I did intergrate a weanling into my herd. But she was out with her weaning partner for 3 weeks. He was sold. I then put her in with my older broodmare on their own. Having watched Stella for years I knew this would not only be ok she would learn right from wrong. They were together for a month and added her mom back in with another mare. No issues. Stella is the leader anyway. When she was a yearling her mom was sold so it was just 3. When my 5 yo mare came back from jumper training she went out too without shoes. I was worried about that but at least Cupcake had a friend to play with finally. But I've had Stella since she was 3 and all the others were bred by me. I wasn't in a livery yard hoping it worked. I would never consider flying blind with a baby. No way. When you see the things that can happen it's not worth it. By the way that weanling is now 3. She's never been fussed over. She does the basics and is busy being a youngster. She has manners but has never been overdone. Just keep that in mind. You'll find more issues with youngsters that never get to be youngsters than basically wild never handled youngsters. You only realise this when you make a balls of it yourself. Raises hand. Thankfully I coped on and realised the advice given was correct.

Terri

Terri

 

[HBM1]

I think your yearling, if you buy her, would greatly benefit from being at her breeders until next year. She will then have all summer, winter and spring to live out and grow up a little. When I bought my first two foals, 8 years ago now, initially, for the first 6 months of their lives I saw them every day. I didn't do much with them, just spent time in their fields with them. They would follow me around whilst I poo picked and just chatted to them, scratched them etc.

As weanlings I moved them to a stud, it meant I could only see them once or twice a week, but although I missed them, it was so good for them. They never forgot me and every visit they would run over to me and enjoy a scratch and a visit. It is hard, as you want to spend every minute with them, but I truly do believe that if you fry a baby's brain you will never recover them from it. Some babies just don't do well with daily handling, they become angry and frustrated and just want to be out.

your girl will get to know you even if you visit once a week, then when she is ready to come over at two years old, you will have a good relationship with her and a baby who has had time to just be a baby. Plus you will know she is with someone who will care for her as she bred her, and we do love our homebreds.

 

[milo'n'molly]

Firstly well done on seeking advice and considering peoples opinions as this is all people can give you, their opinions from their experiences.
Whilst I think you have had some pretty dramatic replies I am inclined to agree with them. Horses favourite hobbies are injuring themselves and getting into trouble, babies even more so. In my opinion some people buy a youngster and chuck ok in a field and everything is fine but that's just sods law and I think in general its a massive risk. Whilst I agree with you it is good for youngsters to live in a mixed herd, a DIY yard causes issues.
I have known people have all kinds of problems with youngsters on DIY yards, few as dramatic as being kicked to death or chased through fences ( but that does happen) but behaviour problems and vices from being stood in a stable when they have too much energy, frustrated youngsters become naughty yougsters especially when the weather is bad and they have to miss a days turnout. Other issues are development problems from standing in eating and not moving enough causing lameness.
Other liveries are an issue, babies need consistent and fair handling which they may not get from people not used to babies.
The people I know who have had problems have had problems they should not have in the type of youngsters they have eg ulcers and ocd in native crosses who could happily live out in the right environment.
Yes basic handling is important but if your youngster has a good temperament, a good start, is checked on regularly and every now and then brought in and taught some basics it will not become wild. Again it is just my opinion but a youngsters time should be spent learning how to be a horse, how to move their bodies and how to socialise. A few hours every week spent learning new things will teach them to enjoy being in your company and not resent it.

Good luck with your baby, you will have a fantastic experience just choose the right environment for your baby

 

[mel_s]

I dont think you sound careless - as people are making out. I think you need to be careful, yes, but no one has ideal circumstances.

I once bought a foal (he was 10 months by the time i got him in the Jan) who was used to being stabled at night. I carried on this routine and he was also integrated with 3 other geldings. No problem what so ever and i didnt even think to worry about it (besides normal horse type concerns). I knew they'd be fine. However - one horse was mine, one a friends and then another girl owned the other one. It wasnt a livery yard as such and they were all bought in at the same time etc - thus avoiding livery yard type problems that can arise.

My (now) 2 year old was also stabled for her first winter at night. I agree they need lots of turnout but daily handling is good also. She was put in with my gelding when i got her but i knew he'd be fine. Again, it wasnt a livery type yard, it was private. Last summer i did end up on a iivery yard which was a complete nightmare. Other horse owners randomly bringing horses in when it rained and then letting me know when i am sat at work and can do nothing about it! Obviously you cant have them left alone in case they panic.

So it shows that situations arent ideal and you have to just make do with the best you can do. I wouldnt chuck a baby in with horses i didnt know though and i'd want them introducing one at a time or whatever. Not just putting in with a herd. I currently have a 7 week old foal on the ground and i've just put my gelding in with him and his mum. Hes fine anyway but the foals mum is still careful to make sure my gelding knows the rules.

A yearling may be better for your situation but if you get a weanling you might find a smaller private yard better so that you have control over things. Big livery yards arent all that suitable.

 

[Megibo]

Sounds stupid but I never realised how dangerous it was to turn babies out with other horses before..how strange! I never gave it much thought but we've got a yearling (9 months when we bought her) and she met my 13/14 year old mares over the stable doors first, then she went out with the 13 year old who is the most non-confrontational horse I've ever met and has had babies. Not so much as a murmur and they aren't ever that far from each other always grooming etc
She went out with the 13 year old who is the dominant mare and again, all was fine. They now go out as a threesome and though my two seem closer with eachother than they are with the yearling (they've been together for a year and nearly a month), the 13y/o and yearling are always grazing together etc.

 

[The wife]

We initially turned both of our weanlings out with just one older, very sensible animals for them to learn the basics of herd dynamics and went from there. They then got used to more being added as and when necessary and are neither very dominant or brow beaten. Both are now 2 and 3 and will happily be in their fields on their own or within a small group with no hassle or drama's. The 2YO is very playful and boisterous but knows his place and thanks to the 26YO's firm but fair hoof, will back down when he gets too rough.

IMHO, I'd wouldn't contemplate turning anything out, let alone a weanling, into an established herd, without carefully integrating them.

 

[honetpot]

I buy youngsters and foals and some times have been with them on a livery yard, its not ideal but with planning which is what you are doing it is possible.
Ideally I would turn them out with a pony, I use an old pony mare as she stands no nonsense but will only kick if it try's to climb on top of her. I also have a baggage of a pony if its the foal a bit of a devil as its quite capable of getting out of the way.
Until you get it you have no idea of the temperament and although it could be injured by other horses I would be more concerned that other liveries would be worried about it chewing rugs, tails and generally being a young animal.
A word of caution. The youngsters I buy are never usually from the breeder, I pick them up cheap when their owners they find out they can neither financially or practically manage with them.