intelligent horses - for better or worse?!

[Natch]

Frankie is extremely intelligent.

Its not a boast - its a right royal pain in the bum a lot of the time, as he often uses it to invent new ways of being naughty, cheeky, getting himself and his fieldmates into trouble and generally thinking he knows better than me.

More than one instructor has commented "ooh, I've never seen a horse evade like THAT before"

But occasionally, very occasionally, he applies himself to something like schooling in a positive way and the results are truly outstanding!

Last night was one of those times.

You might remember that I have had a huge amount of trouble with his canter - too fast, wrong leg, motorbiking the corners, too exciting... but last night he only went and bloomin' did a perfect figure of 8 with me at canter!

I picked up right canter, went across the diagonal, 2 strides of trot and picked up left canter like a dream!

Then after just once Mr Intelligent had got it, and proceeded to perform 2 more complete figure of 8's with foot perfect transitions to change leg!

I love this horse!!!

Ahem sorry that was slightly self indulgent

... anyway who else has an intelligent horse and do they apply themselves in a positive or negative way?

 

[flyingfeet]

Our most intelligent horse was an arab, how due to the extra brain power, she worried and got herself into lots of trouble.

Give me my thickos any day!!!

 

[BBH]

Intelligence is always a good thing if it helps a horse keep himself and others out of trouble and can think for himself, however my experience with my horse is that he is too intelligent and uses it to my disadvantage. He thinks of new evasions quicker than the old ones are un- done, it makes him super wary of any new situation until he decides things are ok and he learns a route too quickly ie if you are doing a grid and go left at the end and come round again wishing to go right at the end he will nap cos he thinks we should be going left. He would make a fab dressage horse cos he'd learn the test himself LOL.

I would rather he was a tad thicker TBH.

 

[ISHmad]

You're very lucky to have a bright, forward thinking horse. Your job is to channel that energy and intelligence. If you make what you want clear enough your horse is going to pick it up in a heartbeat. So I think this horse will be your greatest instructor yet! Whatever you ask for the horse will give you, just be careful and precise with what you ask for.

I love horses like this, they really do teach you so much.

 

[Natch]

LHS - hmm yes but he also couples the intelligence with being easily bored, and when in bored mode he seems to get incredibly thick (you know those people who are MENSA level but lack basic common sense sometimes?!), so DOES get himself into rather than out of trouble a lot.

Give him his due though he has done some amazing acrobatics at times to get himself out of trouble when we got the striding into a fence wrong.

Have to disagree over dressage, I can never practice a dressage test out fully until the actual test, made that mistake once and he just anticipated EVERYTHING!

We had another girl ride him a while back, and she could always report back to me what we'd been practising in that week's lesson, he'd show her!

ISH you're right they do teach you so much, to the point where I was convinced he was being nappy on a circle but realised the saddle has slipped ever so slightly placing my inside leg on in a different way to the aid for a circle - hardly noiceable to me, but he was convinced we were doing leg yields!!

 

[harrihjc]

I'm undecided if Flash is really intelligent or totally sub-normal. He's very good at coming up with new tricks and evasions, and has the shortest attention span in the world. I'm not sure if he won't do things because he's just thick, or because he's been clever enough to think of something more amusing to do and another way of making me feel useless

 

[YorksG]

Oh yes I know that feeling well, the old Appy and the new(ish) one were/are too bright for my own good. The old Appy was scared of brollies, buses goodness knows what else. We worked at desensetising her for brollies, I carried one while she was being fed etc. No problem, she ken it was me not scared of my brollie, but still would not pass anyone else with one The current one is like yours, if I am at all off balance she will act as if I am giving her sideways aids, mind you it teaches you to sit straught lol

 

[Natch]

YorksG, it does that, although it also teaches me lots of peculiar things that probably shouldn't work and wouldn't get me any points in an equitation class but that work - e.g. I am convinced my seat aids are probably NOT normal by anyone else's standards apart from his!

Harri_and_flash - that sounds SO like Frankie - so many people who don't know him very well think of him as thick as he can give that impression, but if you look closer than that I'll bet you'll find millions of layers to him that if you start unpeeling them will start to bring you the occasional miracle that makes all those evasions and lack of attention span all worthwhile!

I cried the first time we did a walk/trot test, because we had worked so flipping hard to get anywhere near that point! Much though Frankie frustrates the life out of me sometimes, the occasional lightbulb moment more than makes up for it, honest!

 

[Parkranger]

mmmm i'm on the fence about this. Ty is what I would term as a bit 'backward' in that sometimes it takes him a while to get something. That said, reschooling him to take a contact took 2 weeks. He just thinks that everything is too much like hard work and he'd rather not thanks.

Oscar on the other half is uber intelligent and I found it hard work to start with - but jumping he looks after me but schooling wise, being a schoolmaster, he knows all the tricks and is a master of evasion!

 

[damsel]

Well my Danish warmblood even though people think they are thick is very intelligent but uses it in the naughtiest way possible. He is extremely cheeky and tries to cause as many problems as possible. When it comes to doing sensible things he turns thick again but he makes me laugh. My tbxwelsh mare is intelligent and sort of in a good way. She is a has a good homing beacon in her as whenever i get lost on a hack i just turn her around and she takes me back. The only problem is that it is at 100mph. My mums dales pony is also intelligent but again it is good and bad as when you have cantered or trotted at one place in the school she thinks you will ask there again so she does it. She also is so sensitive because all i have to do is think canter in my head and she knows. LOL

 

[peanut]

[ QUOTE ]
You're very lucky to have a bright, forward thinking horse. Your job is to channel that energy and intelligence...

... Whatever you ask for the horse will give you, just be careful and precise with what you ask for.



[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree. Intelligent horses can also pick up bad habits as quickly.

Mine is as bright as a button and I love it

 

[Mamamia]

I agree with the bad habit thing. Intelligent horses get bored easily and will do anything to amuse themselves. When in the stable Mia is constantly door kicking, wood chewing, scraping teeth along metal and the latest is poo eating - yuk

.

You also need to be able to out-think them. She hates the ditch at Tweseldown and last time there she was back pedalling 20m out - she knew what was coming!!

 

[Theresa_F]

Chancer is very clever. I have to be very careful to try to only teach him what I want him to do and make sure he is quickly put right on the naughty things. He did go through a stage of napping and backing off and Mr Stick on his bum a few times made it 100% plain this was not allowed. He likes an easy life so when it is make clear that some behaviour is not acceptable, he tends to stop doing it. He loves having praise and works hard to get it.

Luckily for me, unlike my WB he seems to be willing to work with me and is very trainable and a very kind little chap. He is only just 4 and already knows that if I am not secure in the saddle, he slows and waits for me to sort myself out. He seems to have worked out just how much fun he can have without having me upset

I have had both types, Jemima was lovely but needed to be shown sometimes many times what was required, once cottoned on she remembered. Cairo again needed a bit more showing but Chancer tends to need being shown once or at the most twice and often works it out himself.

Personally I prefer an intelligent horse, provided it is one that want to work with you. An intelligent horse that does not is not fun - and I have had one of those as well. By the time she had stopped asking questions and arguing she knew best, we were both exhausted.

 

[Bosworth]

my ex racer is an extremely intelligent chap, he undoes stables, lets the other horses out - returns to his stable and closes his door - the only horse not out is him!!! we were cursing every horse bar him till we caught him on CCTV. He will stand and remove nuts from the field gate hinges with his lips and tongue, takes off other horses head collars - especially when travelling in a trailer with a friend. But once working that brain is put to good use, he gets shown something twice and its in his brain, he tries his hardest to understand and is the cleverest horse XC. As a racer XC fences have never been in his repetoire. So I took him XC schooling. He understood immediately, even related distances and corners, and is very clever with his striding. Give me the intelligent, foreward thinking motivated horses any day, his naughtiness is challenging but fun in the yard and as long as we prepare for all eventualities we have had no problems with him.

 

[TarrSteps]

Interesting how many people seem to equate intelligence with bad and/or stressed behaviour.

Most of the very smart horses I've had have been on the laid back side, at least the majority of the time. They often lit up in competition when it was necessary and were quick to remove themselves from unpleasant situations (which is hardly genius behaviour - they were just a bit quicker to figure it out than most) but generally took a "wait and see" approach, which is MUCH more sensible for herbivores.

I've found "fast thinkers" tend to be "slow movers" because they've already got the situation sussed before they react and don't get anxious about things that don't concern them.

I've also had some "fiddlers" that let themselves out of gates etc. I think my most intelligent horse just jumped out when it suited him though - why stay put if he didn't want to when he didn't have to?

Some horses are "physically intelligent" and quick to get themselves out of trouble. But one could argue the REALLY smart ones don't get into trouble in the first place!

I think there are also horses that are really smart at being horses - they get along well socially, keep out of trouble etc. - but aren't necessarily good riding horses. Some seem to just learn more easily.

As far as horses getting bored in work, it's pretty easy to avoid that. And, you have to admit, being ridden is a TINY portion of their day. Horses aren't that into "doing things" - watch horses in a field if you don't believe me - so they should be able to cope with a 40 minute ride or so.

 

[Sarah1]

Intelligence is a wonderful attribute as long as it's coupled with a trainable temperament! I'd hate to have a really clever horse that had a stinking attitude as I don't think I'd get anywhere! We have a horse on the yard - the jury is out on the brain power but the attitude is awful - it's just not a pleasure to have around so I think if it was really intelligent it'd be downright dangerous!
Bailey can be very clever some days & picks things up really quickly (including bad habits & evasion methods!) but he's very trainable & has a wonderful outlook on life! He's got a cracking attitude!
He lacks common sense sometimes though - like the other week we were schooling over poles - he'd been over 1 particular pole in trot a million times & I walked him over it on the way out of the school - the dunce tripped over it!

 

[ladyt25]

Mine used to pre-empt what we wanted him to do when i was at college with him, it was quite funny bless him. Say you'd done one halt, turn on the forehand he then assumed the next halt you'd do then he had to do a turn on the forehand. Sam with leg yielding, do it once and he'd cotton on. I must say it did help to make the rider look good as he woudl do it pretty perfectly each time andyou wouldn't have to move!

Also a friend there who was very into her dressage had him doing halts to canter within about 2 'requests'. Thing is I think my horse knows he's too clever and can use it to his advantage too often, you can almost see his brain whirring away when thinking how to undo 'that' gate or that particular door!

Still, keeps us amused!!!

 

[Natch]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting how many people seem to equate intelligence with bad and/or stressed behaviour.

Most of the very smart horses I've had have been on the laid back side, at least the majority of the time. ... generally took a "wait and see" approach, which is MUCH more sensible for herbivores.

I've found "fast thinkers" tend to be "slow movers" because they've already got the situation sussed before they react and don't get anxious about things that don't concern them.

...

[/ QUOTE ]

That was a really interesrting reply, thank you!

I suppose horses can be intelligent in many different ways. Frankie is definately a thinker, but it is coupled with being extremely headstrong and a cracking sense of humour. We can argue for hours, days, weeks, never getting anywhere but both frustrated... some would say he is incredibly "untrainable". However, find the right key and use it, and things progress at an incredibly fast pace.

If you have ever read Mark Rashid's books, your thinking is very much in line with his alpha and passive leadership and theories on wasting energy. I do think it is true that the lasiest of horses can be the smartest - they've worked out how to conserve as much energy as possible and do the bare minimum to get by. Unfortunately despite responding very well to passive leadership training, Frankie is very much the alpha horse in the field, and will waste tons of energy chasing the others around needlessly.

So physically/as a prey animal, not so smart.

 

[Kenzo]

Gonna put a twist on this now

...I think the thicker ones are actually the intelligent ones!

gimmy a thicko anyday too

 

[somethingorother]

ok didnt read all posts so sorry if i've missed something and my post is irrelevant now lol

Most nightmarish horse i rode was also cleverest. He thought up new evasions every time i fixed one problem a new one would arrive. i taught him shoulder-in to stop him spooking at the side of the arena he reared at. Next day he used this as an evasion. i taught him rein back for some reason i cant remember now, for the next week he ran backwards everywhere. He was very quick thinking and it was difficult to react quicker than him when he was playing up.
That said when he was in the mood to work people were gobsmacked by how well he went. This manic crazy horse that was goin nicer than their expensive dressage horses... HA!