Interesting article about stabling

[Pigeon]

http://horsetalk.co.nz/2013/08/13/stabling-no-life-horse-professor/

 

[fburton]

I think a lot of us knew this already??

Still, it's good to see hard evidence that group turnout doesn't increase injury rates.

I wonder how attitudes and practices vary from country to country.

 

[dogatemysalad]

Seems obivious but incredibly, there are still an awful lot of owners who don't.

 

[Cortez]

Interesting, I wonder what the sample size was. Wasn't there a fairly recent article in H&H that said most injuries occurred whilst turned out?

 

[Gloi]

I'll bet most of the injuries that occur when turned out don't happen in groups of horses that live out 24/7 in a herd where the same horses have had the chance to live together for long enough to develop proper relationships with each other.
Horses turned out a couple of hours a day, swapping and changing who they are out with is a recipe for fights and injuries.

 

[DabDab]

There are a lot of unknowns behind this article and the corresponding research. I would be willing to bet that they used quite 'natural' type fields, where there is a lot of space, hedgerows, trees, undulation etc. With the best will in the world most horse owners don't have access to that kind of turnout, particularly in this country, and many fields that horses are more usually kept in can be an awful lot more disconcerting for a horse - for a flight animal to be in a situation where they are surrounded by open space from which attackers can appear but not being able to escape or hide themselves can be uncomfortable.

Also, multiple horses in smaller paddocks can create a fractious situation in which injuries do occur more regularly, and even in bigger paddocks, large groups of horses convening around a gateway can be a recipe for disaster, especially in the winter when it's slippy underfoot.

 

[dogatemysalad]

Yes, it's true but it isn't the turnout in its self but the management that increases the risk. No horse will ever be completely safe in its stable, field or when ridden but good fencing, adequate space and forage minimise the risks. Apparently its the horses who spend more time stabled who injure themselves more frequently when turned out.
In winter when yards have to stop turnout during bad weather, even the most chilled horses tend to go loopy when they do get out in the fields.

 

[Hazel and Arnold]

Pigeon, your horse is sooooooooooo beautiful! x

 

[Boulty]

Think it's repeating what a lot of people know already. Horses in long established herds that spend a lot of time out together are less inclined to go hooning off around the field at every least little thing and generally are more settled than those that go out for a few hours here and there (Sure they still play and they still injure each other, nothing short of designing a bubblewrap suit of some kind can prevent that!) Really really wish more yards were set up to cater for offering the maximum amount of turnout in suitable fields. (sadly stabling serves a purpose in that it allows there to be more horses on the land than it can technically support thus allowing YOs to have more liveries, although I think in some areas the rent they'd need to charge if they had few enough horses to allow living out all the time would probably be eye watering) I am fortunate in that my yard allows them to be out 24/7 for the better months of the year, given half the chance would love to carry on this arrangement through the winter but sadly not enough land where I am for this plus YO won't allow us to hay the fields in bad weather so they need to come in to get a decent amount of food in them. (Think there was an incident occurred some time in the past before I arrived so now we have a blanket ban). At least we DO get turnout in bad weather I guess which is something. I'd give a lot to have 24/7 turnout in well managed fields in a herd year-round with access to an arena and hacking but don't think this setup exists anywhere in the vicinity of where I am.

 

[Spring Feather]

I would be willing to bet that they used quite 'natural' type fields, where there is a lot of space, hedgerows, trees, undulation etc.

See, this is how my fields are and all of the horses here live out 24/7/365 and the incidents we have are very few and far between. My herds are all secure herds who know each other well and there is little bickering goes on and there's plenty of space and hills for the horses to go off and do their own thing if they so desire.

 

[Rose Folly]

Same as Spring Feather.Mmy horse and 5-6 liveries live out 24/7 as a herd. I think Ladewig is only saying what a lot of us have worked out for ourselves. Horses are (very) social animals. Their natural structure is a herd. Within a herd they behave 'better', chill out more, have a natural pecking order, are more confident, rarely have mad moments, and are accepting, in the natural way of gradual acceptance, of other animals introduced to the herd.

We do provide open barns which they can use at will, they're well fed and well rugged in winter and have natural shelter in varied grazing. I wouldn't change it for the world.

 

[JustMeThen]

I love the bit about "pasture enrichments such as dirt to roll in" - our fields must be very rich

 

[Adopter]

It is interesting that the research is from Denmark. I understand from Danish friends who have cobs that the laws in respect of keeping horses was changed a few years ago and you are not allowed to keep a horse or pony on their own. You have to have at least a companion equine.

 

[fburton]

Good for them! Do they allow for the rare exceptions where a horse doesn't get on with others? What about stallions? (Not that I am saying that keeping stallions alone is necessarily the best we can do for them.)

 

[Rouletterose]

I think we all know horses prefer to be out all the time especially at this time of year, most owners do not have the time to go tramping through deep mud accross maybe 30 acre fields to catch a horse they want to ride, clean, wash, dry and tack up for a lesson, hack whatever. My yard makes sure horses can be out as much as possible but to be honest in the weather in this country in the winter, we have very wet land, all the horses wait to come in including my own, in fact my two drag me in even though they have grass in the fields they are in, as with all things relating to horses...it depends on the individual horse. You cant make blanket statements like this little piece of research, which most horse owners know already, you just adjust everything as best you can to suit you and your own horses.

 

[GrumpyHero]

I believe in a lot of cases field injuries happen through lack of turnout. A horse that has limited turnout is (imo) more likely to get injured whilst out in the field - probably because they're more likely to charge around and get themself into difficulties, aswell as not being familiar with the existing herd who are turned out for most of the summer. Therefore more likely to be bullied/excluded/kicked etc.

I do understand that accidents do happen and horses that are kept out 24/7 are also sometimes injured, though if the field is safe and maintained then this is less likely to happen.

I know that with my own horse, if he has been kept in his stable for a few days (ironically through a field injury, i think it was from a kick with a back shoe) that when i turn him out he goes charging off and it worries me, lol. Whereas when he's on his 24/7 routine he plods into the field and grazes straight away.

Unfortunately for me i'm in the UK (like most of us) so the winters aren't the best for turnout! On my yard the horses are allowed turnout 3/4 times a week, which isn't fully ideal but it is better than a lot of the other yards near me who don't do turnout over winter. I don't believe that a horse should be restricted to its stable for 6 months of the year, what a miserable existence it must be for them for those months.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

While the sentiments are true in imo the article is very confused. A 30 year study on Swiss Riding schools compared to a 2010 one on feral horses?

I've never known a riding school horse do only 41 minutes of exercise a day? Nor have I seen an obese riding school horse? Do they mean livery yard - Swiss terms may be different?

What data was used to conclude that turnout in groups didn't pose a higher risk of injury? Is that compared to stabling or individual turn-out? Not my experience at most livery yards nearly all the injuries are due to one horse kicking the bejeezus out of another as groups are constantly changing, incompatible horses are turned out together and land is usually pressurised. Not ideal conditions but pretty much the norm in this country

 

[DabDab]

I also think that the majority of modern stable designs could be better - from my experience I strongly believe that stables with low walls that allow the horses in next door stables to interact make for a much happier yard (though you do of course have to be careful with who goes next to who).

 

[fburton]

Talking of new/different stable designs, I recently saw a photo of stabling that incorporated a smallish outside pen that gave horses the choice of whether to be in or out, as well as allowing freer communication between horses. I wish I could remember where! Will post link if it turns up again.

 

[Clodagh]

Talking of new/different stable designs, I recently saw a photo of stabling that incorporated a smallish outside pen that gave horses the choice of whether to be in or out, as well as allowing freer communication between horses. I wish I could remember where! Will post link if it turns up again.

Mine live out 24/7 now but my stables all have what we call a 'patio'. So, the stables are 12 x 12 and then out the front there is a 12 x 15 post and railed concrete pad (with mats on). The horses only went into their stables to lie down and spend all there time out the front, so I used to leave their turnouts on, which led me think why bother getting them in at all and now they live out.

 

[Annagain]

I also think that the majority of modern stable designs could be better - from my experience I strongly believe that stables with low walls that allow the horses in next door stables to interact make for a much happier yard (though you do of course have to be careful with who goes next to who).

This works for some, but my share horse hates having other horses near him in the stable. In the field, he's one (albeit on the periphery of) of a very happy herd of seven geldings who have been together, undisrupted, for about 8 years and they all get on brilliantly. The other 6 all groom each other and play but he'll only groom one other and doesn't do playing. They're all happy and confident enough to be first out or last in by themselves and there's the odd disagreement (in a field full of grumpy old men, what would you expect!) but no fighting.

In the stable however he's evil to anything that's close to him - kicking walls, lunging over the door at any horse who has the misfortune of straying into 'his' space. I think he does it as feels very vulnerable in there as he has no escape route (he always makes sure he's got one in the field hence being on the periphery of the herd). He's now on the end of a block so nobody has to come past his stable and the wall between him and the horse next door has been built right up and he's much better for it. He still kicks the wall so we've had to cover it in rubber matting.He's a darling to humans! When he was on box rest for 6 months, he was quiet as a lamb when he was the only one in, but as soon as the others came in overnight he started with the kicking again!

 

[DabDab]

Talking of new/different stable designs, I recently saw a photo of stabling that incorporated a smallish outside pen that gave horses the choice of whether to be in or out, as well as allowing freer communication between horses. I wish I could remember where! Will post link if it turns up again.

Yes, I really like that kind of set up - I think in an ideal world it would be nice to have long strips so they could have a run up and down if they felt the urge.

 

[DabDab]

This works for some, but my share horse hates having other horses near him in the stable. In the field, he's one (albeit on the periphery of) of a very happy herd of seven geldings who have been together, undisrupted, for about 8 years and they all get on brilliantly. The other 6 all groom each other and play but he'll only groom one other and doesn't do playing. They're all happy and confident enough to be first out or last in by themselves and there's the odd disagreement (in a field full of grumpy old men, what would you expect!) but no fighting.

In the stable however he's evil to anything that's close to him - kicking walls, lunging over the door at any horse who has the misfortune of straying into 'his' space. I think he does it as feels very vulnerable in there as he has no escape route (he always makes sure he's got one in the field hence being on the periphery of the herd). He's now on the end of a block so nobody has to come past his stable and the wall between him and the horse next door has been built right up and he's much better for it. He still kicks the wall so we've had to cover it in rubber matting.He's a darling to humans! When he was on box rest for 6 months, he was quiet as a lamb when he was the only one in, but as soon as the others came in overnight he started with the kicking again!

Yes I've met a couple like that - isn't it interesting how different horses take to different conditions. By the same token I have worked on a number of professional yards where the horses had very little turnout or no turnout at all, and while I wouldn't choose it for my horses, they certainly weren't stressed out neurotic lunatics that were a nightmare to ride and handle. On the contrary, they were all calm, amenable and excellent riding and competition horses. I think there are so many nuances in the management, care and routine of a yard of horses that making sweeping generalisations based on stable vs turnout can be really hard.

 

[Cortez]

Horses are individuals, one system does not suit all. Some are happy to be out, some actively hate being out at all, most in my experience are best with a combination of being stabled and turnout. If you have riding horses, especially fit competition horses, then having the option of stabling is essential.

 

[Goldenstar]

Horses are individuals, one system does not suit all. Some are happy to be out, some actively hate being out at all, most in my experience are best with a combination of being stabled and turnout. If you have riding horses, especially fit competition horses, then having the option of stabling is essential.

This is my view.

 

[Honey08]

From my experience, stables with grills or low walls that allow them to touch cause a lot of bullying and stress for the lower horse, and also a more separation anxiety. I would cover them up if I had them. I prefer the horse to be able to see the other horses over the door and hear them moving around in the next box, but also have their quiet time and privacy. I love the idea of having an open pen space outside the stable so they can choose to be inside alone or outside with company. Our stables have a large road planings area around them that the horses can wander around. We only have two horses nowadays, so it doesn't need separating up.

 

[Pigeon]

Pigeon, your horse is sooooooooooo beautiful! x

Aw, thankyou!!! I think so too hehe