Interesting article about temperature regulation in horses. Worth a read

[ester]

no friggin clue!

 

[Tiddlypom]

LW, yours has just lost her legwarmers and mane so will likely feel the cold more than usual atm. She looks super smart now, though

ETA The PSSM/PPID mare is in her no neck 100g Rambo, and she was fine when it lashed it down just now with hail and all. The two finer coated sports horse types have grown just enough winter coat to be able to cope rugless in the same downpour, though I think they'd have preferred to be rugged!

 

[Red-1]

Horse flies are sight hunters. Are the zebra print type fly rugs as effective at warding them off as it is claimed they are?

I thought it was a load of old rubbish, but when I bought my new horse this spring I needed new rugs anyway as she is smaller than my previous ones. We have horse flies with fangs here, so usually we have sweet itch ones as they are more substantial, and the lighter weight mesh ones for if it is really hot. In fact, the files bother her less in the new mesh zebra one than in the sweet itch one. There are noticeably less horseflies round her. Does not seem to work with other flies though.

There are still some, as I think they also look for heat and expirated gasses, but still it was an improvement.

I am cutting one to make a fly sheet for riding in next year.

I tried a horse fly trap with a black ball and upside down cone shaped fly catcher, but that caught absolutely none. I think someone else on here had better luck with glue and a black bucket though.

 

[DabDab]

Hehe, well if we're doing daily rug updates....
I did not look at the weather forecast yesterday so mine all went out without rugs. So we had two cold wet cross things this morning crowding the gate. I'm still feeling feeble so OH decided the best way to go was to just open the gate, and they both raced in to their stables. We went with them and put a waffle on each. Then I headed back out to find Pebbles who was merrily meandering around eating the lush grass by the school not sure what the fuss is all about. Tonight Dabs is out with a 200g on and Arty has a rainsheet. It's about 3 degrees here atm.

😁😁

 

[Red-1]

[Content removed]

Gosh, you re a "new member" currently showing 1 post. I guess you are really a current longer standing member who has been upset, using a new identity. Otherwise that is not a very kind post to start here.

I find that if you wish to make a point, it is better to criticise a particular thing a person has done that you take issue with, rather than do a general character attack. It comes across as more constructive and could actually help the person. IMO a character attack is unkind and hurtful to the person that it is about, whilst not being helpful to actually help the person see your point of view.

 

[Go-easy]

David Marlin see's fit the make outlandish claims on his page and simply delete comments that question his beliefs and kick off people who disagree with him, that is not science, thats the behaviour of a cult leader. Put his name into this forum and look at how he reacted when people objected to him posting a survey for one of his own products.

 

[HeresHoping]

You ought to be careful. There's a fine line between libel and opinion.

 

[Red-1]

David Marlin see's fit the make outlandish claims on his page and simply delete comments that question his beliefs and kick off people who disagree with him, that is not science, thats the behaviour of a cult leader. Put his name into this forum and look at how he reacted when people objected to him posting a survey for one of his own products.

If it is his own facebook page then I expect he would remove anything he didn't like. To be fair, I only have friends access my FB page, it is quite private, but even so, if someone posts something that I find offensive, insensitive or upsetting, I remove that comment from my page too. In fact, I have removed people from my page entirely if they are not respectful to my feelings.

If you don't like what is on his FB page I would not look there (unless you think there is something illegal or against FB regs, in which case I would report the post).

Your last comment confirms in my mind that you are a previous/current user, not sure why you would change identities, although I think this is the first time it was possible for me to form that opinion in the very first post (although it does not usually take long) of a new reincarnation.

 

[{97702}]

Please do not feed the troll.....

 

[PapaverFollis]

Ooo. Erm. Back on topic?

We had "feels like" 1 degree last night (4 degrees actual). Mine were stabled (wooden) Granny was naked. The Beast was in a fleece and a 100g over. Both were comfortable this morning. I do feel like this is the wrong way round to be rugging them. But they are fitted with the wrong whinnies too.

I wonder if there is a correlation between depth of whinny and cold tolerance.

 

[blitznbobs]

My mare feels the cold. You can tell because if she’s cold she’s a megabitch and tries to bite you, walk on you and on the whole just be bad mannered. Put a rug on her and she returns to her usual, sweet and pleasant and mannerly self. The cob is hard as nails when it comes to the cold, he is clipped out (hunter) and still is quite happy out In the nude and gets sweaty in anything more than a rain sheet, In my experience horses do tell you what they want it’s up to humans to be better listeners not better scientists.

 

[Northern]

My thoroughbred is hot, could light a fire hot. Subsequently, she is comfortable in a neckless unlined new zealand rug while most others here are still in winter combos. I've just left a yard where she was on part care, the YO told me multiple times how "cold" she was under just her canvas rug, implying she disagreed with my rugging choice! If it were up to her, there would have been a sweat puddle of horse on the ground. The same horse is already sweaty under her winter combos in the mornings! She's just shedding out her thick winter coat, no comparison to YOs clipped ponies and WBs with many (too many) layers on. Overrugging is rife here (Aus), its hovering around 7-10 degrees at night which is too warm for filled rugs IMO (majority of horses anyway!).

Before I moved here I looked after a horse who had: a cotton rug, polar fleece rug, unlined synthetic rug, filled winter rug with neck plus a canvas over the top to stop others ripping. That was extreme IMO, considering daylight temperatures were getting up to 17-20 degrees. I did ended up pulling off some layers, but know the horse has been rugged this way for most of his life (was in his teens) and I didn't want to change too much given his owner preferred to rug him this way. Was so difficult though!

 

[Leo Walker]

David Marlin see's fit the make outlandish claims on his page and simply delete comments that question his beliefs and kick off people who disagree with him, that is not science, thats the behaviour of a cult leader. Put his name into this forum and look at how he reacted when people objected to him posting a survey for one of his own products.

Oooh please, please, please tell me you are the mad woman who makes Astrids Oil?

 

[Leo Walker]

Oooh please, please, please tell me you are the mad woman who makes Astrids Oil?

Actually you arent Far to literate!

 

[Leo Walker]

LW, yours has just lost her legwarmers and mane so will likely feel the cold more than usual atm. She looks super smart now, though

Thank you! She lost everything not just the mane and leg warmers, although she has already grown back a really soft, fuzzy coat. Definitely not enough to keep her warm in all the rain and wind though.

 

[Tiddlypom]

My mare feels the cold. You can tell because if she’s cold she’s a megabitch and tries to bite you, walk on you and on the whole just be bad mannered. Put a rug on her and she returns to her usual, sweet and pleasant and mannerly self. The cob is hard as nails when it comes to the cold, he is clipped out (hunter) and still is quite happy out In the nude and gets sweaty in anything more than a rain sheet, In my experience horses do tell you what they want it’s up to humans to be better listeners not better scientists.

Great post, especially the bit I've put in bold. My metabolic IDx turns into a megabitch when she's too cold, too.

This isn't science bashing (I've got the set of science A levels), but caring for horses is as much an art as a science. However, we can all learn something from science, but it has to be good science .

ETA, and Go-easy, please live up to your username. Many of us on here have already had their eyes opened to what DM is really like. His hard core supporters will not listen to you anyway.

 

[ycbm]

There are a couple of interesting and related bits in the article which I missed after (over)reacting to the stuff about heat radiation.

He says that research from Poland is showing that air temperature, not light, has most effect on coat growth. That's interesting because I've read on this forum that it was light, not heat, that was more important.

The second bit is that he says that your horse might acclimatise to the colder temperatures so that after a while you can swap to a thinner rug. But how can the horse acclimatise to colder temperatures if it's in a thick rug? Especially if the Polish research is right, and hair growth is regulated by air temperature, and you're keeping the air temperature around the body warm with a rug?

Has anyone swapped to thinner rugs after a horse has been in a thick one for a while, even though the temperature hasn't risen? It isn't something I'd even think of unless the horse was showing signs of being too hot, and that hasn't happened unless the temperature has risen or I've whacked up the food.

 

[DabDab]

Yes, the moulting thing is interesting....because I was always taught that it was the daylight changes that started them moulting and the temperature that dictated how thick a winter coat they grew (comparatively speaking obviously, depending on breeding). But like you say, on this forum that's not generally the understanding that is posted.

 

[Red-1]

Yes, the moulting thing is interesting....because I was always taught that it was the daylight changes that started them moulting and the temperature that dictated how thick a winter coat they grew (comparatively speaking obviously, depending on breeding). But like you say, on this forum that's not generally the understanding that is posted.

It is my belief that the light controls the 'when' in coat changing, but the air temp controls the how much.

My observation is that the difference in coat is actually felt one year on. For example, the year I bought my first pony he came from Hampshire where he grew a fine coat, to Yorkshire on the side of a windswept hillside, almost 1000 feet up. He came in summer, and all was well. When winter came he grew an incredibly fine coat and was cold. It was the days of jute rugs with 2 blankets under, and he was still cold. Outdoors was a canvas NZ rug, with single blanket layer. It was hard to keep weight on him!

The next year he made good his mistake - he was a hairy yak!

One yard I worked at, they had half American barn stabling and half outdoor stables. The outdoor ones all grew big coats, and were fully clipped. The first year they moved indoors they also grew big coats and were clipped, but if you left the coat and let them be a bit warm on one year, then the next year they wold only grow a thin coat and not need clipping. If you clipped every year then they always put out a winter coat and needed clipping. You had to grit your teeth for one year to make the magical no coat appear. Thereafter the winter coat is a little fuller that a summer, and if you were competing at seed it would not be good enough, but for general Dressage, SJ and even light hunting (as opposed to being a thruster), it is fine. The yard was commercial, every horse had the same rugging (exactly the same rugs down to the brand and colour).

I have applied this to home-horses too, the first year they come here they have thick coats, but I resist clipping and let them be a touch warm (before everyone gets angry, not enough to make them sweat and I don't use neck rugs), then afterwards - as in the years after - they don't need clipping again as they have little more than a summer coat. They have adjusted to their new environment. I also manipulate their coats by having the lights on from 6am until 10pm. 6am is first muck out and 10pm is bed time, so the stable light is on then (except while they are turned out, obviously). This seems to delay winter coats arriving and hasten them leaving.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Ooooooooo! We got The Beast in an October (the previous winter she was in Northern Ireland and probably living out without a rug)... That first winter with us she has the most spectacular beard and thick winter coat. Last winter (when her previous winter had been spent with us in Cumbria, stabled (stone) with rugs and daily turnout) she did not produce the beard or coat to anywhere near the same level! Very interesting.

I will see how coat changes now we've moved up here... but it'll probably be next winter we see the results. They'll gave Cumbrian appropriate coats this year then... Will definitely be getting the heavyweights out at some point I imagine.

 

[kimberleigh]

My TB is in a 100g day and night here - no neck as of yet but wont be long if weather keep heading way it is.

Rain/wind/cold mean she is very much in need of her rug

My Connie is still naked though and will be for as long as poss, and will stay neckless regardless of weather

 

[catkin]

It is my belief that the light controls the 'when' in coat changing, but the air temp controls the how much.

My observation is that the difference in coat is actually felt one year on. For example, the year I bought my first pony he came from Hampshire where he grew a fine coat, to Yorkshire on the side of a windswept hillside, almost 1000 feet up. He came in summer, and all was well. When winter came he grew an incredibly fine coat and was cold. It was the days of jute rugs with 2 blankets under, and he was still cold. Outdoors was a canvas NZ rug, with single blanket layer. It was hard to keep weight on him!

The next year he made good his mistake - he was a hairy yak!

One yard I worked at, they had half American barn stabling and half outdoor stables. The outdoor ones all grew big coats, and were fully clipped. The first year they moved indoors they also grew big coats and were clipped, but if you left the coat and let them be a bit warm on one year, then the next year they wold only grow a thin coat and not need clipping. If you clipped every year then they always put out a winter coat and needed clipping. You had to grit your teeth for one year to make the magical no coat appear. Thereafter the winter coat is a little fuller that a summer, and if you were competing at seed it would not be good enough, but for general Dressage, SJ and even light hunting (as opposed to being a thruster), it is fine. The yard was commercial, every horse had the same rugging (exactly the same rugs down to the brand and colour).

I have applied this to home-horses too, the first year they come here they have thick coats, but I resist clipping and let them be a touch warm (before everyone gets angry, not enough to make them sweat and I don't use neck rugs), then afterwards - as in the years after - they don't need clipping again as they have little more than a summer coat. They have adjusted to their new environment. I also manipulate their coats by having the lights on from 6am until 10pm. 6am is first muck out and 10pm is bed time, so the stable light is on then (except while they are turned out, obviously). This seems to delay winter coats arriving and hasten them leaving.

How interesting.

After a cold winter last year it will be interesting to see what the ponies eventually grow this year. (They are both breeds that originate in colder parts than the balmy south-west they live in now)

 

[criso]

There are a couple of interesting and related bits in the article which I missed after (over)reacting to the stuff about heat radiation.

He says that research from Poland is showing that air temperature, not light, has most effect on coat growth. That's interesting because I've read on this forum that it was light, not heat, that was more important.

The second bit is that he says that your horse might acclimatise to the colder temperatures so that after a while you can swap to a thinner rug. But how can the horse acclimatise to colder temperatures if it's in a thick rug? Especially if the Polish research is right, and hair growth is regulated by air temperature, and you're keeping the air temperature around the body warm with a rug?

Has anyone swapped to thinner rugs after a horse has been in a thick one for a while, even though the temperature hasn't risen? It isn't something I'd even think of unless the horse was showing signs of being too hot, and that hasn't happened unless the temperature has risen or I've whacked up the food.

One year I was struggling with allergies. He went to the RVC for testing and he went from chaser clipped Tb wearing a hw stable rug to naked. It was snowing and anyone who knows the RVC will confirm their stables are especially cold and drafty. Was advised to keep him rug less when I got him back. He was fine. Didn't drop any weight though he could have done with doing so. Since then have rugged him as little as possible. He got a slightly thicker coat each year the first few years I had him buy now stabilised. He does get a thick fluffy coat for a Tb but it's quite silky so while he copes with extreme cold, it's not that waterproof

 

[indie1282]

I really don’t understand fly rugs either. I use a good fly repellent and fly cream on theIr underbits and I’ve never felt the need to rug in the summer. For my oldie that does need rugging in the winter, it’s the only time she can enjoy the sun on her back and have a good scratch when she wants one without a rug getting in the way.

I agree except I now have a black pony, flies of all sorts love him-putting a light coloured rug on him did help reduce the sheer number that targeted him but I now use tritec 14 which kills horseflies on contact and has enabled my other sweetitchy pony to live out without a fly rug. The only other rugs I have these days are rain sheets used about three times a year and a couple of summer thematex for when I bath them if needed.

Like I said, we all know our own horses. I also have a black horse and ANY type of fly loves him. I can walk past all the other horses in their fields and none have flies on them but he is covered. My other horse in the same field also has no flies on him.

I use a Premier Equine Multi buster which is a thicker weave and does stop flies biting through. I choose to put a fly rug on rather than him being bitten and having a miserable life. They both get plenty of naked time to groom and be horses.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Like I said, we all know our own horses. I also have a black horse and ANY type of fly loves him. I can walk past all the other horses in their fields and none have flies on them but he is covered. My other horse in the same field also has no flies on him.

I use a Premier Equine Multi buster which is a thicker weave and does stop flies biting through. I choose to put a fly rug on rather than him being bitten and having a miserable life. They both get plenty of naked time to groom and be horses.

its quite remarkable just how many more flies the black pony will have on him compared to the other-wouldnt hesitate to use a fly rug on him should I need to but also very glad the other pony managed a summer without one and still has a full man and tail

 

[albeg]

I thought it was a load of old rubbish, but when I bought my new horse this spring I needed new rugs anyway as she is smaller than my previous ones. We have horse flies with fangs here, so usually we have sweet itch ones as they are more substantial, and the lighter weight mesh ones for if it is really hot. In fact, the files bother her less in the new mesh zebra one than in the sweet itch one. There are noticeably less horseflies round her. Does not seem to work with other flies though.

The flies didn't bother mine as much in his zebra print either, however it did seem to attract lions, and the poor zebra was savaged within about a week...

Interesting about the air temperature thing, someone needs to tell my boy! Fully clipped (leaving legs and half head) 3.5 weeks ago as was already quite fluffy and wasn't comfortable in the heat. In either 50/100g (old rug and can't remember what it is supposed to be) now, on warmer days/nights he wore his rambo hoody and a waterproof liner, just in case there were any showers. He aims for polar bear every year, didn't notice any real difference between when he lived in overnight and now, when he's out 24/7. He runs warm though, he's in a lighter rug tonight than some of the unclipped guys, but they feel the cold and get sore/cranky.

While the guidelines are nice, they're guidelines, you have to deal with what's in front of you on the day!