Interesting article on feeding horses protein...
- Thread starter Spyda
- Start date
Saxon_Jasmine
Well-Known Member
That is interesting. I'd be interested to hear what other nutritionalists opinions are on this.
Rouletterose
Well-Known Member
Very interesting article! thank you very much for posting.
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
Well iv started feeding linseed and that alone is 23% protein
eahotson
Well-Known Member
Very interesting.
TGM
Well-Known Member
Just remember that the article is talking about the TOTAL amount of protein in the diet over all. If your horse is on average hay, then that is about 9% protein, and hay will usually make up the vast proportion of the diet. If small amounts of high protein foods are then added, then this will not be enough to raise the protein level hugely. Remember linseed is usually fed in small quantities, as are balancers which are often high protein. As regards alfalfa chaffs, an heaped Stubbs scoop will only contain about 500g, so again a relatively small amount.
One problem that can occur, however, is when people start to use alfalfa chaffs as partial or full hay replacer, because they then start to form a major percentage of the diet and have a much more significant effect on the overal protein level.
royal
Well-Known Member
I for one, found this very interesting...
When my mare last tied up, I was insistent it was due to the alpha a oil (v v high protein for a hard feed/chaff) as there was no real reason for it, she is managed very well and it coincided with her being switched onto the alpha.
I was told that this was not the case and high protein does not cause it....I however, have still maintained this and as a precaution will not feed hard feeds with a lot of protein in them....
When my mare last tied up, I was insistent it was due to the alpha a oil (v v high protein for a hard feed/chaff) as there was no real reason for it, she is managed very well and it coincided with her being switched onto the alpha.
I was told that this was not the case and high protein does not cause it....I however, have still maintained this and as a precaution will not feed hard feeds with a lot of protein in them....
YasandCrystal
Well-Known Member
Hi this is a really interesting article. I was concerned that my horse ha become more and more aggressive with no obvious cause, but that this has coincided with his feed. He was fed Copra which is 23% protein and Alfa A Oil - the more people I talk to the more I hear how the Alfa A oil can send horses completely schizo. I even upped the amount of Alfa A oil as I suspected ulcers and know that Alfalfa is healing for stomach ph balance etc. My horse has become unrideable and has just been scoped and found to have 3 low grade ulcers. I spoke with a nutritionalist who said that the Copra would not promote and salivation as it is a mash and only chewing does that and also it was calcium depleting. This concerned her.
I have changed feeds to cereal free - which I thought I was already doing for the horses benefit with the Copra. Oh how wrong you can be. I can't tell you how close this horse was to being pts. I am now hoping for a happy ending after the ulcer treatment.
I have changed feeds to cereal free - which I thought I was already doing for the horses benefit with the Copra. Oh how wrong you can be. I can't tell you how close this horse was to being pts. I am now hoping for a happy ending after the ulcer treatment.
Spyda
Well-Known Member
Mmmm... I feed Copra, linseed meal, sugar beet, Graze On, Equilibra & Cortaflex HA.
celia
Well-Known Member
Pretty good advice I think. I love nosing at the back of feed backs and am often amazed at how much protein is in a lot of compound feeds, even the ones marketed for the horse is pretty light work, who certainly doesn't need it.
Mike007
Well-Known Member
An interesting article, Ms Topel is clearly a bit of a traditionalist when it comes to equine nutrition ,and to my mind that is no bad thing. The best way to keep a horse healthy is to let his own system fend off problems . Its an incredibly complex subject and I suspect that Ms Topel has had to "dumb it down" rather a lot. I was left wishing for a lot more information and references. Her comments regarding tying up are along the traditional lines and "apparently?" out of sync with the research of Drs Valberg and Valentine, (who Identify sugars as being the/ a root caused rather than protein).Yet I remain onthe fence on this one, generations of keen eyed horsemen have observed an apparent link with protein,rather than sugars.Her throw away comment about horses foaming up has got me thinking , to be sure. An interesting read.
kezimac
Well-Known Member
I feed linseed meal 200gm, copra 700gm, fast fibre 1.7kg and kwikbeet 400gm a day
but my horse is in alot of work so surely needs the protein to build muscle as she schools 6 times a week plus dressage competitions -
am confused now if i am overdoing the protein ?
but my horse is in alot of work so surely needs the protein to build muscle as she schools 6 times a week plus dressage competitions -
am confused now if i am overdoing the protein ?
Mike007
Well-Known Member
A fit horse actualy needs less protein than an unfit one . I would also describe schooling six times a week plus dressage competitions as "light work"
TGM
Well-Known Member
The trouble is, the 'traditional' protein containing feeds (cereals) also happen to be high in starch as well. So it was noted that cereals caused problems and this was attributed to the protein content, rather than the starch content that 'experts' now believe are the trigger.
Mike007
Well-Known Member
I understand exactly what you are saying ,and I have the greatest of respect for Dr Valberg and Dr Valentine and their separate work . What causes me concern ,is that a lot of the best annecdotal evidence is from the days when horses were fed entirely on straights and there was a lot less confusion as to what one was feeding . Incidentaly the traditional protein containing feed was not cereals but Beans. (eg "that horse is full of beans today"). I find the current research exciting , I think the sugars link to both Laminitis and azoturia is proven bit that there is an awfull lot more to the story and that protein is still implicated.
TGM
Well-Known Member
Yes beans were known to be particularly high in protein, but lots of the old horse books (of which I have many) talk about giving cereals to boost the overall protein content of a hay based diet. They are not 'high' in protein compared to beans, linseed etc., but higher than most normal hays so were considered to be protein foods!
But I do agree that the subject is very complex and more contributory causes are likely to be found.
But I do agree that the subject is very complex and more contributory causes are likely to be found.
Firewell
Well-Known Member
That article is very interesting!
I've been researching and thinking a lot about feed recently and I've come to the conclusion, like the lady said in the article that balance is key. It's like everything in life, anything in moderation.
Horses are designed to eat grass, that's it. Grass and shrubs and minerals from the earth. Then we come along, stable them and expect them to do short bursts of higher intensity work.
I think there are fashions in feeding and at the moment it's protein and oil. Everyone wants a gleaming, muscular horse that is calm and as quiet as a lamb and if they are not something is wrong. The Market is full of high oil, high protein, slow release energy, low starch and sugar feed guaranteed to make your horse look like a HOY's show winner with the temperament of a donkey that could work all day. Horses weren't even designed to eat oil, it's an alien product for them. I'm not saying it's bad just that it's only recently that scientists found that horses could process oil.
It's the same with starch and sugar. Grains were the only way people knew to supplement horses feed to cope with our work. Then came sugar and none of us thought it was bad to give them sugary chaff.
I have come to the conclusion that a horse can cope with small amounts of starch, sugar, protein, oil ect even grass and hay contain sugar! Grass can contain very high amounts of sugar. I think it would be very hard to cut out all feed that had something 'bad' in it. If we cut out sugar, starch, protein, Alfa, oil we would have nothing to feed them! Therefore I am now going to focus on giving my horse as simple a diet as possible and I'm not going to stress if it has 10% starch or 10% protein or 10% sugar I'm going to keep everything low, realistic and not stress about excluding what's 'bad'.
My horse is going to get as much grass, hay and haylage as he wants and I'm going to supplement it with a chaff, Hifi whatever, a general non-heating nut and an all-round supplement. If he lacks energy he can have more nuts, if he drops weight he can have more haylage, hay, chaff.
That's it now, I'm fed up with the expense and headache of feeding! Horses have gone round badminton on horse and pony nuts. And horses in the wild survive walking for miles a day eating scrub. My TB can survive on his delicious haylage, decent grass and nuts
. The all round supplement will make sure he's not lacking in anything. I've started my regime already and he is 10x calmer then when he was on the supposed 'non-heating' high protein, Alfa and oil diet. If anything he has put on weight now that his poor system has stopped being taxed with over rich feed. He's stopped cribbing and scouring and he's a happier chap and so is my bank balance
Horses eat hay and grass, simple! I think a lot of horses are underweight because they don't get enough hay/haylage, grass (how many threads were on YO's not allowing hay in the field over winter?? Or horses being in 24/7?) and a lot dont have enough top line because they are not ridden properly, working from behind and over their backs.
Fat horses are all too common these days and it's hardly surprising, we are being brain- washed!
I've been researching and thinking a lot about feed recently and I've come to the conclusion, like the lady said in the article that balance is key. It's like everything in life, anything in moderation.
Horses are designed to eat grass, that's it. Grass and shrubs and minerals from the earth. Then we come along, stable them and expect them to do short bursts of higher intensity work.
I think there are fashions in feeding and at the moment it's protein and oil. Everyone wants a gleaming, muscular horse that is calm and as quiet as a lamb and if they are not something is wrong. The Market is full of high oil, high protein, slow release energy, low starch and sugar feed guaranteed to make your horse look like a HOY's show winner with the temperament of a donkey that could work all day. Horses weren't even designed to eat oil, it's an alien product for them. I'm not saying it's bad just that it's only recently that scientists found that horses could process oil.
It's the same with starch and sugar. Grains were the only way people knew to supplement horses feed to cope with our work. Then came sugar and none of us thought it was bad to give them sugary chaff.
I have come to the conclusion that a horse can cope with small amounts of starch, sugar, protein, oil ect even grass and hay contain sugar! Grass can contain very high amounts of sugar. I think it would be very hard to cut out all feed that had something 'bad' in it. If we cut out sugar, starch, protein, Alfa, oil we would have nothing to feed them! Therefore I am now going to focus on giving my horse as simple a diet as possible and I'm not going to stress if it has 10% starch or 10% protein or 10% sugar I'm going to keep everything low, realistic and not stress about excluding what's 'bad'.
My horse is going to get as much grass, hay and haylage as he wants and I'm going to supplement it with a chaff, Hifi whatever, a general non-heating nut and an all-round supplement. If he lacks energy he can have more nuts, if he drops weight he can have more haylage, hay, chaff.
That's it now, I'm fed up with the expense and headache of feeding! Horses have gone round badminton on horse and pony nuts. And horses in the wild survive walking for miles a day eating scrub. My TB can survive on his delicious haylage, decent grass and nuts
. The all round supplement will make sure he's not lacking in anything. I've started my regime already and he is 10x calmer then when he was on the supposed 'non-heating' high protein, Alfa and oil diet. If anything he has put on weight now that his poor system has stopped being taxed with over rich feed. He's stopped cribbing and scouring and he's a happier chap and so is my bank balance Horses eat hay and grass, simple! I think a lot of horses are underweight because they don't get enough hay/haylage, grass (how many threads were on YO's not allowing hay in the field over winter?? Or horses being in 24/7?) and a lot dont have enough top line because they are not ridden properly, working from behind and over their backs.
Fat horses are all too common these days and it's hardly surprising, we are being brain- washed!
brighteyes
Pooh-Bah
firewell my thoughts entirely and I long since stopped feeding anything much above haylage and grass - and chop for the speedi-beet to go in as the succulent component of the winter diet. None lack sparkle or shine or sensible amounts of energy. Especially the ones who compete.