Interesting article.

[palo1]

About horse's brains. Thought provoking and accessible. Enjoy. https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/...b-i8z_VDm6KzO93CXOcgT03BPvnpP_bb38iQMqQM38CWA

Sorry for double posting; in Equestrian news. I will try to delete that one.

 

[Barton Bounty]

It says link forbidden

 

[palo1]

It says link forbidden

Oh, ok - I will try to find it and post it so it can be viewed. Thanks. Here you go: (It's not a long article).

Prefrontal Cortex in Horses and Humans - from Psychology Today.

Do horses have executive function?
Posted April 19, 2023 | Reviewed by Vanessa Lancaster

Share on FacebookShare
Share on TwitterTweet
Share via EmailEmail
KEY POINTS
The prefrontal cortex is one small part of the frontal lobes in the human brain.
At least some predator animals have a prefrontal cortex, allowing limited executive function.
Prey brains do not have the prefrontal cortex or frontal lobes.
Source: Schmidt, M.J. Knemeyer, C., & Heinsen, H. (2019). "Neuroanatomy of the equine brain as revealed by high-field (3Tesla) Magnetic Resonance Imaging
Source: Schmidt, M.J. Knemeyer, C., & Heinsen, H. (2019). "Neuroanatomy of the equine brain as revealed by high-field (3Tesla) Magnetic Resonance Imaging
Many horse owners think the existence of the prefrontal cortex is a major controversy in equine science. It’s not. It’s just an area that’s riddled with misinformation. Curiously, most people—horsey or not—want the prefrontal cortex to be part of the horse’s brain. How does their reasoning go? “If I have one and I’m smart, he must have one because he’s smart.” That’s an oversimplified generalization, but at base, I think it’s true.

The prefrontal cortex is a small portion of brain tissue located at the front of the frontal lobe in human brains, just behind and above our eyes. It’s responsible for what we call the executive function—planning, organizing, deciding, evaluating, and strategizing. It’s also responsible for judging, worrying, and manipulating. Humans rely strongly on the prefrontal cortex. Horses do not.

Thirty-three percent of the average human cortex—the outer layers of the human brain—is prefrontal. That’s a lot! It matches our sense that we spend a lot of time carrying out the activities of executive function. By comparison, about 15 percent of the monkey cortex is prefrontal, and only 5 percent of the cat and dog cortex is prefrontal. These canine and feline predator brains are capable of limited executive function and spend very little time carrying out executive tasks. But they probably can when they need to.

Prey brains are different in many important ways from predators' brains. Horses have no prefrontal cortex. They do not even have a frontal lobe. The accuracy of these facts is verified easily by consulting recent MRI images of the equine brain. In the photograph here, the frontal lobe would be located above and to the left of the spinal cord and brainstem. You can see there is no brain tissue in this area at all.

So if horses have no prefrontal cortex, how do they solve problems? They use their excellent memories and senses. What worked in the past? What action led to positive consequences? Try that!

I once had a horse going into equine surgery, which was not allowed to eat for 12 hours prior to general anesthesia. The equine digestive system operates on frequent food intake, so 12 hours of fasting is a bunch. Cory had every right to be hangry.

When I arrived at the hospital on the morning of the surgery, he was waiting for me at his stall door. He looked at the hay across the hall, then back at me. Hay… Me… Hay… Me. He nuzzled my arm, then pushed it. He touched his empty feed bucket with a hoof, then lowered his nose to the bucket. He walked to the back of his stall, then strode purposefully to its door in the direction of the hay outside. After each try, he stared into my eyes. No luck.

I rarely give horses treats but had done so for a few unusual tricks in the distant past. Cory began his repertoire. He stretched his front legs straight and pushed his shoulders toward the ground, performing a “down dog” while seeking my attention. Nope. He tried it again with more stretch, the best “down dog” I’ve ever seen, even from a human yogi. He popped his lips, a substitute action I had rewarded nearly 10 years prior to counter-condition pawing. He remembered maneuvers that I had long since forgotten.

The moral of the story? Horses do not need a prefrontal cortex because their memories serve them better than ours serve us. Where a human uses the prefrontal cortex to solve a problem, set goals, and plan hypothetical actions, a horse uses memory.

The last thing a prey animal needs to survive is a prefrontal cortex. All that time spent pondering, deciding, and planning is time taken away from fleeing danger. Over 56 million years of evolution, the equine brain has evolved to prevent wasting time. A horse who considers the meaning of a movement in the grasses is a horse who becomes a predator’s dinner.

The lack of the prefrontal cortex in horses is a gift to them and us. It keeps them alive and helps to sharpen their memories. But it allows us to work with animals who live in the moment, who do not—indeed, can not—judge, criticize, worry, or manipulate. What a refreshing experience!

References

Schmidt, M.J. Knemeyer, C., & Heinsen, H. (2019). "Neuroanatomy of the equine brain as revealed by high-field (3Tesla) Magnetic Resonance Imaging," PLOS One: doi 10.1371/pone.0213814.

 

[Barton Bounty]

This is so relatable to BB.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Maybe this link will work better.

Prefrontal Cortex in Horses and Humans

Do horses have executive function?

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[TheBayThoroughbred]

This is so unbelievably important and I wish every horse owner could read this. So often we try to impart human qualities on horses, ie. “He’s being rude!” Or “She’s being disrespectful!” When in reality none of these are behaviours that horses can achieve. Horses react to their environment, so any unwanted behaviours are direct results of adverse stimuli OR natural behaviours that have never been corrected. It’s high time we stop taking out our egos on horses.

 

[smolmaus]

Even when you know this, on a factual level, it is still so easy to anthropomorphise. That's a human brain problem.

"If I have one and I’m smart, he must have one because he’s smart."

and conversely "if this is how I would feel in this situation, this is also how they feel". Ruins relationships between people, never mind other species.

 

[Time for Tea]

This is interesting on several levels. Regarding anthropomorphism, do you think we need to do that a little bit, in order to cement our own feelings for our animals? Even if we divorce anthropomorphism completely from our training and handling?

Regarding the way their brains work, I was aware of a small element of this, in that I had noticed if I threw a treat for my dog to the other side of a fence, he would immediately run to the gate 20 yards away in order to get to the other side to eat it. If I did the same thing for my horse with an apple, he would just advance to the fence and stare over at it, then look at me. This could mean “why did you do that you idiot” or just an expectation that I would sort it. Some of them work out quite quickly what to do to get their apple, to be fair, others seem clueless. None instant like the dog though.

 

[ycbm]

I don't think there's a problem with anthropomorphism in relation to emotional behaviour. Emotions are created by chemicals and horses have the same chemicals. So i see no problem with understanding that horses can be happy, sad, bereaved, angry, chilled etc.

Attributing choice to behaviour created by those emotions is a step too far, though.
.

 

[stangs]

Even when you know this, on a factual level, it is still so easy to anthropomorphise. That's a human brain problem.


and conversely "if this is how I would feel in this situation, this is also how they feel". Ruins relationships between people, never mind other species.

There’s an article somewhere that argues that we don’t anthropomorphise animals, but rather we have a problem with egocentrism. We don’t think of them as humans, just as beings that share our individual opinions and behaviours. I guess that’s what makes animal-assisted therapy so good.

You can see this trait in the article itself. Author says her horse stared into her eyes - given that horses use so many other body parts to signal thoughts, and, like any prey animal, aren’t keen on intense eye contact, was he really staring into his eyes or did she perceive him as staring into her eyes because she was staring into his?

Regardless, anthropomorphism’s a curious one because it’s had both good and bad consequences for welfare. It tends to get used in the context of the bad these days (“rude/naughty/disrespectful” behaviour), but would the laws for animal welfare exist without it and the compassion and love for animals it manifests?

When you read work campaigning against pit ponies, it’s all talk about how the ponies ‘must’ suffer working underground. It’s not that most of these people knew what the ponies experienced, but they imagined what they would feel like not seeing daylight for days on end, and attributed their feelings to the horses. Thanks to that empathy, we don’t use pit ponies anymore.

Mind you, I think you’d have to call that egocentrism, not anthropomorphism. After all, they rarely showed such empathy and compassion for the human miners working in equally horrid conditions!

 

[palo1]

I think that it is really interesting and useful from lots of points of view. What I have taken away from this kind of stuff (I have read around this subject a bit, lol) is actually just how totally amazing it is to have such strong connections and partnerships with animals when we actually don't share the same experiences at all. Obviously humans tend to make assumptions about the notion of 'partnership' and 'connection' that are somewhat fabricated but even so, the working relationships of animals and humans (sheepdogs, guidedogs, RDA horses etc etc) is inspiring because even with the differences between us, alongside that exists willingness to engage and be curious about what we are asking of them. I think it is also useful in grounding us and reinforcing the idea that we simply must not take the co-operation and engagement of animals with us for granted. I agree too that this isn't about emotions or emotional experience even when those are experienced and processed very, very differently by animals. I have to say that if horses actually had Executive Function via the frontal cortex we would probably be stuffed lol!!

 

[smolmaus]

I don't think there's a problem with anthropomorphism in relation to emotional behaviour. Emotions are created by chemicals and horses have the same chemicals. So i see no problem with understanding that horses can be happy, sad, bereaved, angry, chilled etc.

Attributing choice to behaviour created by those emotions is a step too far, though.
.

Recognising that non-human animals experience emotions isn't necessarily anthropomorphism though, but I see what you mean. The realisation that yes a horse can be happy or stressed or feel grief has to come before the secondary realisation that their experience of those emotions doesn't look like ours, or is necessarily caused by the same things.

There’s an article somewhere that argues that we don’t anthropomorphise animals, but rather we have a problem with egocentrism. We don’t think of them as humans, just as beings that share our individual opinions and behaviours. I guess that’s what makes animal-assisted therapy so good.

snip

Mind you, I think you’d have to call that egocentrism, not anthropomorphism. After all, they rarely showed such empathy and compassion for the human miners working in equally horrid conditions!

That is a very interesting point.

I personally think of it like having a two-layer look at things (in an extremely stupid human-brained way of making it as complicated as possible). In some ways treating my pony (and the cats actually) like a person enhances things. I have conversations with them, talk about them as if they are people who have jobs and invent silly little things they are "saying" because it's fun. If one of them won't be caught or is spooking at something silly it can help the humans involved to make up an explanation like they want a day off because it's a Sunday and they've caught religion or it's revenge for the wormer the previous day or something ridiculous. You can say those things for the sake of the human brains involved while still knowing that the horse is a horse and is just experiencing brain-chemicals that are telling them they're going to be eaten if they leave their friends.

I take it as unspoken that these things aren't true, but I suppose you have to remember that not everyone does know that a horse can't plan in advance to ruin your day?

 

[Time for Tea]

I will have to do some observations on intense eye contact! I think you are right about laws on animal welfare. So anthropomorphism has contributed to a good outcome in many cases.

 

[Time for Tea]

Recognising that non-human animals experience emotions isn't necessarily anthropomorphism though, but I see what you mean. The realisation that yes a horse can be happy or stressed or feel grief has to come before the secondary realisation that their experience of those emotions doesn't look like ours, or is necessarily caused by the same things.


That is a very interesting point.

I personally think of it like having a two-layer look at things (in an extremely stupid human-brained way of making it as complicated as possible). In some ways treating my pony (and the cats actually) like a person enhances things. I have conversations with them, talk about them as if they are people who have jobs and invent silly little things they are "saying" because it's fun. If one of them won't be caught or is spooking at something silly it can help the humans involved to make up an explanation like they want a day off because it's a Sunday and they've caught religion or it's revenge for the wormer the previous day or something ridiculous. You can say those things for the sake of the human brains involved while still knowing that the horse is a horse and is just experiencing brain-chemicals that are telling them they're going to be eaten if they leave their friends.

I take it as unspoken that these things aren't true, but I suppose you have to remember that not everyone does know that a horse can't plan in advance to ruin your day?

 

[Time for Tea]

Sorry making a mess of the forums word processing choices.
Smolmaus, yes that’s beautifully expressed how I feel about this, that it helps me, to operate in a two layer way