Interesting debate in Country Living Mag - Horses ruin the countryside

[BBH]

The debate is that horses ruin pasture because they are taking over where they're should be cows who will strip the whole flora and fauna whereas horses are selective about what they eat, thus ruining good pasture land.

Secondly lifestyle horse owners are paying silly acreage sums preventing more people buying land for genuine agricultural purposes and the prices are encouraging farmers to sell.

On the other side it is agreed that the economy gets a huge boost from equine activity.

Do we agree ?

 

[NeedNewHorse]

What! No I don't agree. We are a tiny little island and what is ruining the countryside is huge great big chunks of it being used to build yet more houses. Bit general OK but no I do not think horses are ruining the countryside!

 

[Baileyhoss]

I totally disagree. Horses are part of countryside life. Where on earth else would we go.

Around us there are some beautiful yards that have been converted to flats & nursing homes. Steadings and farm buildings, converted to 'executive' homes. Grazing/pasture is being sold by farmers and built on by developers. It's the developers that pay the inflated prices, not the horse owners.

I think that's what is ruining the country side!.

 

[Chunkie]

If farmers were paid fairly in the first place for their milk, beef etc, they wouldn't be so keen to take on the horses which, on an individual basis will make them far more money than anything else.

I would argue that personally, I put an awful lot of of money into the local economy. This is what I pay out:

Farmer for DIY livery Weekly
Another farmer for feed Fortnightly
Local trainer to swim my horse weekly
Local farrier every 6 weeks
Horsey massage lady every 6 months
Dentist yearly
Vet at least yearly (3 times this yr already)
Local tack shops too often!
Local farmer to hire school weekly May - October
Local instructor weekly - May to October
Local farmer for hay 2-3 times yearly

The furthest away of the above is my vet at 22 miles. Everyone else on that list is within 6 miles of where I keep my horse - most of them within 2 miles.

I could also mention the petrol I buy at a local station, giving a local person a job - I fill up there once a week on the way to my horse. If I wasn't going past it I'd go somewhere cheaper!

 

[criso]

I don't think a farmer trying to make a profit in the reality of modern farming will be thinking about horses. They will be doing everything they can to carry on farming the land that their family has been farming for generations.

Their dairy herds and farms which they will have spend years building up won't be thrown over just because they might make a bit more coverting to livery. if people are worried about the impact of the loss of dairy herds on the countryside, then they need to look at economic situation which makes it so difficult to make a living farming cattle not blame horses.
When they get to the stage where this is no longer possible they may consider horses as an alternative or they may sell up but I think it is more a case of horses moving in after farming has failed not farmers giving up for horses.

And as someone said, If another use wasn't found for the land it would be more difficult to defend and protect the green belt land esp round the big cities and there could be a danger of building.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

Having a viable horsey venture on the land is the best and sometimes only guarantee of fencing off the landfill/housebuilding/quarrying that is the lot of many pockets of greenbelt. I know what Id rather look at!

 

[hussar]

The debate is that horses ruin pasture because they are taking over where they're should be cows who will strip the whole flora and fauna whereas horses are selective about what they eat, thus ruining good pasture land.

Don't agree with the argument at all, but I'm particularly interested in the pasture thing, as my horses graze a field split 50:50 with cattle - and the half my boys are in is like a billiard table, short grass and hardly any weeds, whereas the half the cows are in is very rough, pocked with tufty dead grass and dotted with docks and thistles.

This is quite a prosperous farming area and yet several farmers have chosen to take in a few liveries to run in tandem with their stock; very few farmers round here will sell land for any purpose despite the fact that housing is very expensive in the area - developers are paying silly money when they do find a willing landowner and then discover they can't afford to actually build the houses.

 

[ester]

am waiting to see mine being selective!

 

[BBP]

Horses selectivity in grazing makes for extremely biodiverse habitats in many places. I did my dissertation on the use of horses as a conservation/land management tool. there is a reason why places like Wicken Fen in Cambridgeshire use ponies rather on some parts of the fen rather than cattle, it creates a tiered growth pattern amongst vegetation, allowing for a more diverse range of insects and the subsequent bird and animal life.

It depends if by 'countryside' you mean 'productive farm land'. In either case, as has been said, it is development of productive crop land rather than brownfield sites for housing that is a major factor in the UKs reducing ability to sustain it's own population. raaah! I could go on about this for ages!!!!

 

[BBH]

Mine are selective, they leave all the **** and eat the juicy grass shoots.

Maybe if horses are strip grazed they aren't too selective cos they're limited in what they can get but those that can roam are more selective cos they can be. I don't know just pondering.

 

[siennamum]

It's an age old argument from horse hating farmers, that horses plough up fields allowing weeds and that they create lawned areas and latrines, making the fields look messy.

I think farmers should be thankful for horseriders, we pump money directly into the rural economy and would pay more money direct to farmers to gain access to farmland for riding etc. Perhaps we should also ban cattle, as cow pats are pretty disgusting, sheep make a real mess of fencing leaving wool everywhere, and pigs just turn fields into slurry - they should definitely be kept indoors out of sight!

 

[Alibear]

Hmm weird though isn't it as in national parks and other preseved areas of land wild horses are activley being added to keep the folar and fauna in the desired levels, purley because they are selective feeders.

 

[Tinkerbee]

I kind of agree. Yes they can trash land but so can other grazers. The problem IMO is that many horses are kept by total idiots who have no clue of pasture management, hence the acres of paddocks with bare patches, clumps of weeds and trashed gateways, all nicely enclosed by a hideous wire fence. If people would make the effort to learn and care for their land properly there wouldn't be as much of a problem.

 

[BBH]

I kind of agree. Yes they can trash land but so can other grazers. The problem IMO is that many horses are kept by total idiots who have no clue of pasture management, hence the acres of paddocks with bare patches, clumps of weeds and trashed gateways, all nicely enclosed by a hideous wire fence. If people would make the effort to learn and care for their land properly there wouldn't be as much of a problem.

All these issues were mentioned in the article along with the fact horse owners don't own sufficient paddock maintenance tools to keep the land cared for.

 

[humblepie]

I think the issue re maintenance is valid and that untidy uncared for paddocks can look untidy. However, there are many farms that are equally as untidy. The yard where I used to keep my horse (pure horse yard) was immaculate whereas two of the local farms that do liveries have the most untidy, unmaintained fields you can imagine with falling down fencing, knee high brambles, docks etc in the fields. Given that these farms have all the equipment (and I know they do as I have taught at both), a bit of basic maintenance wouldn't go amiss or cost that much.

 

[Fii]

Yes, and no.
There are a lot of places that i see with horses that are badly maintained, with no weed control, and i am not really talking ragwort, but dock, thistle, and nettles, where the field are over grazed and not rested, apart from poo picking there doesnt seem to be any thought to maintanance, a lot of farmers around here would,nt consider horses because of this.

On the other hand we have a Hundred plus acre's of common land in our village, with a diversty of flora,and very rare flora at that, that is managed by mixed grazing, it has to be mixed to comply with the subsidies they get for it, and is closely monitered.
Without the way it is managed, it would'nt be as diverse as it is.
Ponies are grazed all year round, but cattle onley graze between , may and october.
There is also heathland near us which is mixed grazed as well.

 

[ester]

nettles and thistles and brambles and alike are excellent for wildlife though The two bits we left uncleared when we moved it (cos we had had enough by then!) I call our 'wildlife areas'

 

[Fii]

We have a lease for our field which states that we must clear any dock, thistle, ragwort and nettle, and something else i can't remember, from the field.
Also to be pedantic, (don't tell him!) ragwort is good for wildlife, it is one of the only things the caterpiller (sp) of the cinabar (sp) moth will eat, and that is quite rare now!!

 

[Pebble101]

All these issues were mentioned in the article along with the fact horse owners don't own sufficient paddock maintenance tools to keep the land cared for.

So we pay our local farmer

 

[lizzie_liz]

nettles and thistles and brambles and alike are excellent for wildlife though The two bits we left uncleared when we moved it (cos we had had enough by then!) I call our 'wildlife areas'

Ragwort is also very good for bumblebees who are suffering a severe decline in numbers.

What is ruining out countryside are several things but stems down to an overpopulated country which results in greater demand for land for housing and food. Horses are definately not to blame for ruining the countryside.

 

[MochaDun]

That kind of article makes me so annoyed. If you're going to tackle an issue do proper journalism not broad sweeping statements. Like other posters have said, round here too on the decent farmland once there's a sniff of development/housing potential the farmers are happy to sell up and it becomes built on, it's not that it's going to people wanting their own land for horses/yards. And I would agree that horses and associated business with them provide lots of jobs in the countryside and like Kat says more and more native breeds are being used as conservation grazers to help sort out the mess we (humans!) have already made on sites once good for wildlife.

 

[Fii]

Ragwort is also very good for bumblebees who are suffering a severe decline in numbers. .

Was'nt there some worry a while ago, about honey from ragwort ?
I don't know if it was resolved.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

And then there's the other argument (which I don't actually agree with), that herds of cattle for meat/milk production are contributing to global warming because of the large amounts of methane which they produce. You can always find some numpty to agree with an outlandish, ill-thought out theory, if you try hard enough.

 

[Borderreiver]

Oh dear the horses are spoiling the view of the Country Living readers when they look out of their barn conversion windows. They might even make some mud, heaven forfend!

The countryside is only a decoration to many folk I'm afraid.

 

[perfect11s]

I think the anti in the article was an arable farmer!!! talk about pot calling kettle
it wasnt them who grubbed up miles of hedge and gave us vast fields of monoculture !!!!!

 

[now_loves_mares]

I think the anti in the article was an arable farmer!!! talk about pot calling kettle
it wasnt them who grubbed up miles of hedge and gave us vast fields of monoculture !!!!!

I agree with all the comments above, but particularly this one . The article annoyed me on so many levels - firstly because I normally love CL magazine; secondly because it was far too short and unbalanced; thirdly because of the huge generalisation and inaccuracies; but primarily because they chose to use a BETA rep as the pro view.

Yes of course horses contribute to the economy, but there are so many other benefits. Everyone who passes my horses stops to chat to them and loves them, I think every little girl grows up wanting a pony; and if going on a walk in the country and spying ponies in a field and ripping up handfuls of grass to feed them with is not a rite of passage, I don't know what is! Anything that encourages people to understand and enjoy the countryside has go to be a good thing. Plus - horse riders campaign for access rights very vociferously, which benefits many more people than riders; they support rural economies in so many ways, including the farmers! I'm sure horse people pay premiums for the better quality hay, straw and grain. I'd also suspect (but with no proof!) that vets charge more to treat horses than farm animals, a quasi-form of subsidy (happy to be dis-proved on this one though )

Tourism was another thing touted in the article as a "better" way to earn money from the countryside, but I don't see that they are mutually exclusive; again I'm sure people who normally live in towns quite enjoy seeing horses grazing in the paddocks outside their rural B&B.

I could go on and on but probably best not