Interesting hoof talk

[Hollylee1989]

Today I had an interesting conversation, regarding hoof wall seperation. The lady's mare wears boots in front, whilst transitioning from shoes. Her barefoot trimmer said any seperation means laminitis and rotation, and this is 100% what her mare has. So in a panic she asked for a set of xrays to be done. (No rotation to be seen at all or detachment), her vet was fully happy with the angles etc. Her new trimmer told her the seperation was from her hooves being in a humid environment within the boots. when she's trimmed the seperation goes, then comes back after a week or so being in boots. Interestingly my boy's fronts do the same in his boots, and after trimming. His yearly xrays from 4th August showed improved angles/no bone changes (has navicular and the beginning of low ringbone). Interesting to see what everyone else's thoughts are on this.

 

[ycbm]

What do you mean by hoof wall separation? Are we talking about the hoof delaminating between the inner and outer hoof wall, or about the hoof wall staying in one piece but the white line having a gap in it?

I've often had horses in front boots to work and got one now and I've never seen either happen, by the way. I've also seen proper delamination resolved by taking the shoes off and working the horse in boots.
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[Hollylee1989]

What do you mean by hoof wall separation? Are we talking about the hoof delaminating between the inner and outer hoof wall, or about the hoof wall staying in one piece but the white line having a gap in it?

I've often had horses in front boots to work and got one now and I've never seen either happen, by the way. I've also seen proper delamination resolved by taking the shoes off and working the horse in boots.
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So I assume she meant the white line, having a gap in it from what she was describing. Mine wears hoof boots for turnout, when it's been wet the amount of water and dirt that gets in is crazy. Having to wash them alot particularly this 'summer'.

 

[ycbm]

OK. I've never used hoof boots for turnout and I'd be very reluctant to do it. It really is asking for fungal and bacterial infections to get in there in the dark and damp and eat the white line I think.

If i had to, I'd be packing the white line with a Red Horse product.
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[Hollylee1989]

OK. I've never used hoof boots for turnout and I'd be very reluctant to do it. It really is asking for fungal and bacterial infections to get in there in the dark and damp and eat the white line I think.

If i had to, I'd be packing the white line with a Red Horse product.
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We're month 8 in turnout boots, I'm considering removing them completely also. Our go to is artimud, or field paste. The woman I had the conversation with today, is obviously worried about the gap coming from laminitis. Certainly sounds like it's from environmental! My boys gap gets quite big, then gone once he's been trimmed. (Then always on week 2/3 the gap comes back)

 

[tallyho!]

Today I had an interesting conversation, regarding hoof wall seperation. The lady's mare wears boots in front, whilst transitioning from shoes. Her barefoot trimmer said any seperation means laminitis and rotation, and this is 100% what her mare has.

Were there any photos to show in her talk any pictures of hoof wall separation?

To me, HFS is serious.

So in a panic she asked for a set of xrays to be done. (No rotation to be seen at all or detachment), her vet was fully happy with the angles etc. Her new trimmer told her the seperation was from her hooves being in a humid environment within the boots.

Hmmm...

when she's trimmed the seperation goes, then comes back after a week or so being in boots. Interestingly my boy's fronts do the same in his boots, and after trimming. His yearly xrays from 4th August showed improved angles/no bone changes (has navicular and the beginning of low ringbone). Interesting to see what everyone else's thoughts are on this.

Do you think that's what she really meant? Or maybe there was something else she was getting at?

 

[Hollylee1989]

Were there any photos to show in her talk any pictures of hoof wall separation?

To me, HFS is serious.


Hmmm...


Do you think that's what she really meant? Or maybe there was something else she was getting at?

There were no images of her actual hoof, she only showed me pics of her xrays. I think she was in a panic after being told she had rotation and laminitis.

 

[tallyho!]

There were no images of her actual hoof, she only showed me pics of her xrays. I think she was in a panic after being told she had rotation and laminitis.

Sorry, no I meant on the hoof talk

 

[paddy555]

We're month 8 in turnout boots, I'm considering removing them completely also. Our go to is artimud, or field paste. The woman I had the conversation with today, is obviously worried about the gap coming from laminitis. Certainly sounds like it's from environmental! My boys gap gets quite big, then gone once he's been trimmed. (Then always on week 2/3 the gap comes back)

sorry but why does a horse need 8m in turn out boots or any boots for TO at all? I could see they would be causing lots of problems and failing to let the feet start adapting. I think there are a very very limited number of horses needing boots for turn out.

To get rid of the WLS I would trim more frequently or get a rasp and learn to relieve the outer wall yourself. I wouldn't put anything in the gap, clean it out and expose it to the air. WLS is resolved by trimming.

ETA just out of curiosity are trimmers advocating Turn out boots?

 

[Hollylee1989]

sorry but why does a horse need 8m in turn out boots or any boots for TO at all? I could see they would be causing lots of problems and failing to let the feet start adapting. I think there are a very very limited number of horses needing boots for turn out.

To get rid of the WLS I would trim more frequently or get a rasp and learn to relieve the outer wall yourself. I wouldn't put anything in the gap, clean it out and expose it to the air. WLS is resolved by trimming.

ETA just out of curiosity are trimmers advocating Turn out boots?

Our fields are very very stoney, He got a horrible puncture hole on his sole from one last year.
I don't use a barefoot trimmer so I wouldn't know that answer.

 

[Landcruiser]

sorry but why does a horse need 8m in turn out boots or any boots for TO at all? I could see they would be causing lots of problems and failing to let the feet start adapting. I think there are a very very limited number of horses needing boots for turn out.

To get rid of the WLS I would trim more frequently or get a rasp and learn to relieve the outer wall yourself. I wouldn't put anything in the gap, clean it out and expose it to the air. WLS is resolved by trimming.

ETA just out of curiosity are trimmers advocating Turn out boots?

My mare (yes, Aryan's daughter) has been turned out in boots with pads on and off since her stifle injury last Sept. Actually, it was at the rehab yard around xmas initially they recommended it, the turnout pen was quite stony and she clearly wasn't comfortable. My own (excellent) trimmer then recommended she continue at home as she moved so much better in boots and pads. The idea is to allow correct movement and heel first landing by keeping horse comfortable - while stimulating the digital pad and heel development. As you know she's had issues inc ulcers and selenium deficiency, and her hooves were weak and sensitive as a result. She's now out of boots for turnout and hooves much better, but definitely still booted all round for walking out in hand to help her track up and load correctly. Interestingly given the subject of this thread, she also had bad separation/weak WL on both front feet and to a much lesser extent on the hinds, which is improving as the flare grows out.

I've had no issue with fungus/thrush - the boots have been off when the weather is wet for more than a day or two, and in between I use athletes foot powder, talc, or even diatomaceous earth in them to keep everything dry.

 

[meleeka]

White line separation due to laminitis is sometimes tinged pink. The trimmer was clearly wrong on that point as no rotation was shown on x-ray. It is also more evident after trimming, rather when trimming is due. I don’t think what you are describing is true WLS. I’ve never used boots for that long so can’t comment but it’s likely to be bacteria related.

 

[Red-1]

It can't be that deep if it is resolved by trimming. I presume trim is every 4-6 weeks?

It does sound like fungus/bacteria to me. I would scrub clean daily and use Bactakil if the crevice is present and growing or a preventative such as Hoof Doctor (thought it was a posh hoof oil but it seems to do a lot more than that) after the trim, to see if that prevent the crevice.

Our fields are very very stoney, He got a horrible puncture hole on his sole from one last year.
I don't use a barefoot trimmer so I wouldn't know that answer.

It sounds like this particular horse needs a different turnout field for a time to toughen up on a field that does not produce risk of a puncture wound in the foot. No saying that the field would not be suitable after the feet have toughened up. I would also introduce road walking once the horse is comfortable, starting with 100 yds.

I would also get a rasp and make sure the edges are bevelled right back, to prevent leverage on the white line.

I would ensure diet is optimal for healthy hoof growth.

After 8 months, to still be in boots indicates to me that something needs to change.

 

[Hollylee1989]

It can't be that deep if it is resolved by trimming. I presume trim is every 4-6 weeks?

It does sound like fungus/bacteria to me. I would scrub clean daily and use Bactakil if the crevice is present and growing or a preventative such as Hoof Doctor (thought it was a posh hoof oil but it seems to do a lot more than that) after the trim, to see if that prevent the crevice.


It sounds like this particular horse needs a different turnout field for a time to toughen up on a field that does not produce risk of a puncture wound in the foot. No saying that the field would not be suitable after the feet have toughened up. I would also introduce road walking once the horse is comfortable, starting with 100 yds.

I would also get a rasp and make sure the edges are bevelled right back, to prevent leverage on the white line.

I would ensure diet is optimal for healthy hoof growth.

After 8 months, to still be in boots indicates to me that something needs to change.

All the fields at the yard are the same unfortunately, he's comfortable and we hand walk down the lane 3 times a week. He doesn't wear boots for walking only turnout, he's not footsore, they're only used as protection. I have tried the can of hoof doctor before, I couldn't stand the smell! Didn't help I accidentally dripped a little on my arm. Could still smell it days later