Interesting new study on horse intelligence

[Janique]

My friend had 10 years old mule called Halloween, she had her from birth and loved her so much.

She was very clever and would escape all the time, she would take the handle of the gate in her mouth and open it, going into the feed room.
I always though that she was extremely intelligent but one day....

She escaped like usual and my friend took a feed bucket to get her back, it was in winter and we had lot's of snow,
instead of going into the feed room, she suddenly turned round and went up the field in the deep snow.

We had a train track nearby and Halloween went on it and started frolicking around, tail in the air and galloping back and forth

My friend called her and panicked as the train was coming....

Halloween kept going on the track and was run over. It was an horrible experience for my friend.

We never understood why, she went on there and my friend felt guiltly for a long time....

It was a big yard with over 80 horses but the owner always refused to put a decent fence to protect the horses from the train...

Since that day, i am not sure she was intelligent at all.... My friend moved her horse into another yard after that, she was scared it would happen again.

 

[PurpleSpots]

I guess this research has implications for those who use positive + only training, and I'm struck most by the fact the horses only seemed to step up their effort when the time out highlighted it was worth their while.

It makes sense though - changing habits, however new or old, takes energy and effort. Why do that for no reason.

One of the other angles this study opens up is that, with enough of an aversive, you CAN change what the horse does.

So yes, you can force a horse to do something he doesn't want to if the aversive is strong enough.

And yes, you can train over pain.

 

[PurpleSpots]

Gosh Janique, I've only just read your post - how absolutely terrible .
Sounds like it was a while ago, but still sending love and healing to your friend and anyone else affected .

 

[lynz88]

Mine isn't the sharpest of tools in the shed but he does learn quickly. So quickly that you can do something twice and he will expect that that's "it" and will get upset if you change it up. So I try not to repeat something unless it's something that I absolutely want him to learn. He is also very good at getting human females (in particular) to cuddle him or give him attention - usually by hugging them. Aside from that I wonder about his general level of intelligence....no untying knots, no throwing halters, no opening doors, no testing for weak spots in the fencing, etc.

 

[tristars]

It's not the horses intelligence I'm worried about, it's the onez who keep coming out with the revelations, next we will be treated to something like they can tell the time, ah well yes so its 7pm, din din time

 

[holeymoley]

My oldie is incredibly intelligent and has been since he set hoof on this earth I think. I've been privledged to know him since he was 3, and he has taught me a lot about life, one thing being- don't ever take it so seriously. He has more brains and savvy than a lot of humans I know, and it's not just me that thinks that, I've been told by others too! Insanely intelligent, he almost speaks english. From things such as crouching under and stepping over and in between 2 ropes at the door(don't ask, if you use 1 he'll flip it up and go under it, so decided to use 2 and he realised he had to flip up and crouch under and also step over the lower one), to twisting his head to say 'please' for a treat, to knowing exactly when I became too cocky as a teenager he would some how manage to bring me back down to earth. He knows any time that I've nipped in to the stable and not bolted the door, the exact milli second that he can nudge the door and trot off. He also seen some horses in a field one day while out hacking in a different area, and stopped suddenly, had a good look and neighed. One came trotting down on it's own. It was his friend from over 5 years before who he used to share a trailer with going to shows. They knew each other instantly. So yes, they are very much more intelligent than we give them credit for. Likewise when another horse came to livery at the yard he was on before, new horse wouldn't get on with anything in it's field. I put mine in with him and they got on and grazed together straight away. YO didn't believe it, didn't think they could possibly remember each other and thought I was away with the fairies. Lots more stories where those came from too.

There are some quite dense horses out there though, I have came across them too. I suppose just like people.

 

[Barton Bounty]

None of that report surprises me to be honest, both my boys are really smart and switched on, very trainable and have sense of humours. Orbi is proving very trainable with treats too and tbs nonetheless, very underrated I say.
BB definitely had feelings, he used to physically push people away that got too close to me, even my own children and husband.
I think its hugely dependent on the owner and the time, effort and love given to the horses

 

[Barton Bounty]

It's not the horses intelligence I'm worried about, it's the onez who keep coming out with the revelations, next we will be treated to something like they can tell the time, ah well yes so its 7pm, din din time

I dont think they can tell the time but Orbi waits for me at the same time every day at the gate, BB used to be the same. Already there standing. My friend observed them and about 20 minutes before I am due to arrive they stand there staring down the drive waiting for me to appear, so they have some sort of concept of something.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Just before turn out time, my daughter went to do the muck out and feed to give me a break. Old Dobbin was tied on the yard. Then one of the other liveries alerted her that he had untied the clip rope, opened the drive gate, and was heading off towards the grass. The gate is a latch gate that opens inwards, and he flipped the latch, hooked his head over the gate and stepped back. We have had to put up a third strand of wire in the fences because he can limbo through them (14hh cob), Endearing, but sometimes infuriating!

 

[AppyLover1996]

I gotta admit - when I saw the study I almost wet myself laughing - my two lads are rather intelligent and love to show off at any opportunity.

Bilbo my retired veteran, never really enjoyed jumping under saddle, so it was something I didn't pursue as I didn't feel the need to make him do something he obviously didn't want or like to do. Fast forward to last night and I was chatting with my yard owner and saying how I wish I could have jumped Bilbo when he was in work but I respect his wishes and didn't push him - cue a massive crash, whinnying and a loud sounding of hooves - Bilbo comes trotting into the yard, leading his herd mates behind him looking rather smug - oh and the retired monkey would have had to clear 2 lots of 1.25m 5 bar gates, negotiate a corralled electric fencing area that we using for safely bringing in and turning out, gone down a pathway behind the goat and cattle sheds, opened those gates up and then pushed the gate into the main yard area open - and he didn't even break a sweat! My yard owner and I went to go and check on the goat and cattle as we were concerned that they would be spooked by the horses and it turns out that Bilbo had closed each gate as they'd all gone through! We knew it was him as he is the only grey in the herd and he left his trademark slobber marks all over the gates.....

Another time I was trying to teach Bilbo how to do passage and piaffe in hand in an attempt to help strengthen his overall body and after about an hour, I figured I had to be doing something wrong, so I took a break and turned Bilbo loose to mooch around, when suddenly I hear a gentle patter of hooves, low and behold Bilbo is merrily doing passage and piaffe all by himself. Absolutely ecstatic, I yell for my Mum to show her - of course the second she was watching it goes without saying we didn't get the passage or piaffe.

Rabbit my yearling on the other hand is a rather mischievous fella who I'm sure has been sent to me as some form of divine retribution/punishment cause the monkey is currently outsmarting me at every bloody opportunity possible - but he makes me laugh so it's not all bad! The other night I was starting to teach him how to trot in hand in preparation for some shows next year and I wasn't using my brain (fried from a long day at work and me not feeling 100%) so I was blocking him without me realising - Rabbit of course being a smartie pants realised what was going on and gently nudged me and I ended up sat in the dirt in the field. He then lay down next to me and used my leg to remove his rope halter so he could nap more comfortably - the yard owner found the pair of us flat out in the field snoozing our heads off, when woken up we went back to do a little more training so we ended on a more positive note and he got it first time - Rabbit was obviously telling me that he was tired and we should both take a nap!

I also can't leave anything in Rabbit's reach as it ends up flung down the yard/ in his mouth/ in his water bucket or being flung in my direction - his favourite being grooming brushes - he'll choose what brushes he wants used on him and if I use the wrong brush, when I've popped it down, he'll fling it out my reach. He'll also untie himself and follow me round like a lost puppy - which is cute but slightly jumpy when he's already 15.1 at 1 and a bit year's old and he towers over me......good job he's such a snuggle monkey and can be distracted by a kiss on the snozz or a good ear scratch.... Whenever I muck out I always make sure my boys have lovely big beds with plenty of bedding and that their rubber matting is all clean and disinfected, and Rabbit likes to make his own bed - apparently I'm not good at it, as every time I go to the yard, he poos around the edge of the stable in his banks, wees in his banks and then there will be an area of bedding all pushed around and up against part of the wall as if to form a pillow that he rests his head on. I've popped to the yard in the middle of the day and found him flat out buried in his shavings bed with a massive wad of shavings being used as a pillow - he certainly likes his nap time!

One thing that amazes me is how fast both my boys pick things up - Bilbo is part Appaloosa part New Forest and Rabbit is a pure Appaloosa - and I swear Appaloosa's are incredibly intelligent - it took me a total of less than 1 hour to teach both boys how to back up by a simple click and pointing backwards, without me having to move my feet. I've also taught both boys to smile and give hugs in the space of 10 minutes each I also find that the intelligence goes across all breeds - my friend has the most wonderful Gypsy Vanner cob and I taught him to line up to the mounting block in the space of three 20 minute sessions

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I gotta admit - when I saw the study I almost wet myself laughing - my two lads are rather intelligent and love to show off at any opportunity.

Bilbo my retired veteran, never really enjoyed jumping under saddle, so it was something I didn't pursue as I didn't feel the need to make him do something he obviously didn't want or like to do. Fast forward to last night and I was chatting with my yard owner and saying how I wish I could have jumped Bilbo when he was in work but I respect his wishes and didn't push him - cue a massive crash, whinnying and a loud sounding of hooves - Bilbo comes trotting into the yard, leading his herd mates behind him looking rather smug - oh and the retired monkey would have had to clear 2 lots of 1.25m 5 bar gates, negotiate a corralled electric fencing area that we using for safely bringing in and turning out, gone down a pathway behind the goat and cattle sheds, opened those gates up and then pushed the gate into the main yard area open - and he didn't even break a sweat! My yard owner and I went to go and check on the goat and cattle as we were concerned that they would be spooked by the horses and it turns out that Bilbo had closed each gate as they'd all gone through! We knew it was him as he is the only grey in the herd and he left his trademark slobber marks all over the gates.....

Another time I was trying to teach Bilbo how to do passage and piaffe in hand in an attempt to help strengthen his overall body and after about an hour, I figured I had to be doing something wrong, so I took a break and turned Bilbo loose to mooch around, when suddenly I hear a gentle patter of hooves, low and behold Bilbo is merrily doing passage and piaffe all by himself. Absolutely ecstatic, I yell for my Mum to show her - of course the second she was watching it goes without saying we didn't get the passage or piaffe.

Rabbit my yearling on the other hand is a rather mischievous fella who I'm sure has been sent to me as some form of divine retribution/punishment cause the monkey is currently outsmarting me at every bloody opportunity possible - but he makes me laugh so it's not all bad! The other night I was starting to teach him how to trot in hand in preparation for some shows next year and I wasn't using my brain (fried from a long day at work and me not feeling 100%) so I was blocking him without me realising - Rabbit of course being a smartie pants realised what was going on and gently nudged me and I ended up sat in the dirt in the field. He then lay down next to me and used my leg to remove his rope halter so he could nap more comfortably - the yard owner found the pair of us flat out in the field snoozing our heads off, when woken up we went back to do a little more training so we ended on a more positive note and he got it first time - Rabbit was obviously telling me that he was tired and we should both take a nap!

I also can't leave anything in Rabbit's reach as it ends up flung down the yard/ in his mouth/ in his water bucket or being flung in my direction - his favourite being grooming brushes - he'll choose what brushes he wants used on him and if I use the wrong brush, when I've popped it down, he'll fling it out my reach. He'll also untie himself and follow me round like a lost puppy - which is cute but slightly jumpy when he's already 15.1 at 1 and a bit year's old and he towers over me......good job he's such a snuggle monkey and can be distracted by a kiss on the snozz or a good ear scratch.... Whenever I muck out I always make sure my boys have lovely big beds with plenty of bedding and that their rubber matting is all clean and disinfected, and Rabbit likes to make his own bed - apparently I'm not good at it, as every time I go to the yard, he poos around the edge of the stable in his banks, wees in his banks and then there will be an area of bedding all pushed around and up against part of the wall as if to form a pillow that he rests his head on. I've popped to the yard in the middle of the day and found him flat out buried in his shavings bed with a massive wad of shavings being used as a pillow - he certainly likes his nap time!

One thing that amazes me is how fast both my boys pick things up - Bilbo is part Appaloosa part New Forest and Rabbit is a pure Appaloosa - and I swear Appaloosa's are incredibly intelligent - it took me a total of less than 1 hour to teach both boys how to back up by a simple click and pointing backwards, without me having to move my feet. I've also taught both boys to smile and give hugs in the space of 10 minutes each I also find that the intelligence goes across all breeds - my friend has the most wonderful Gypsy Vanner cob and I taught him to line up to the mounting block in the space of three 20 minute sessions

As a long time (now retired) Appy breeder I agree with the intelligence. They do need to be with the right owners, anyone wanting a horse to do as it is told and just conform should not have an Appy. I very quickly found out that they don't like repetition. Once they know what to do woe betide you if you keep practising. I had decided with my first mare that I needed to do some cavaletti work with her. Twice down the line was perfect. Went to go a third time and she quite deliberately left one leg down and ploughed through the last one. It was her son that went to my sister and proved such a humorist. I was jumping him once, just over little bits of low hedging in their paddock. Like his mum, twice was enough and he dragged a leg the third time and nearly landed on his nose. You could virtually hear him saying 'this is boring', he wanted something more demanding.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

At the RS I used to work at in the 1960's there was a Highland type gelding called Cameron. He was another very intelligent horse who could untie most knots. The dividing gate between paddocks just had a chain that looped over the post to keep it shut. I have watched him rubbing it until he got it undone then dropping his head over the gate and pulling it backwards to open it. One of his favourite tricks with a novice up was when asked to canter, do one stride with a big lurch and then immediately drop his head to grab grass. Dumped a lot of people doing that. Even did it with grass reins on once. Kept jerking his head down and the rider was hanging onto his mouth. Eventually she went sailing over his head. He was a huge character. I remember my boss's husband one day trying to 'sort' him out. Put spurs on and took him in the jumping field. We had one jump that was a big wooden shop sign leant against oil drums. Would have been about 2' 9". He sent him at and Cameron very deliberately hopped his front legs over it and stood straddled. We had to dismantle the jump to free him. He was more than capable of jumping much higher but was just taking the p***s, positively smirking.

 

[paddy555]

my Criollo stallion has a sense of humour. OH normally falls asleep on a horse. I sent them off round the loop to exercise. Horse and rider had years and years of experience, what could possibly go wrong. The horse does absolutely as he is asked. No more, no less. OH went to sleep as usual, Arrayan quite likes a bit of rider participation so he went to sleep as well. He simply laid down as they were walking along. No rolling, no being nasty just simply "if you are so uninspired by this then so am I".
I'm sure the horse thought it was funny. I thought it was hilarious.

 

[SEL]

As a long time (now retired) Appy breeder I agree with the intelligence. They do need to be with the right owners, anyone wanting a horse to do as it is told and just conform should not have an Appy. I very quickly found out that they don't like repetition. Once they know what to do woe betide you if you keep practising. I had decided with my first mare that I needed to do some cavaletti work with her. Twice down the line was perfect. Went to go a third time and she quite deliberately left one leg down and ploughed through the last one. It was her son that went to my sister and proved such a humorist. I was jumping him once, just over little bits of low hedging in their paddock. Like his mum, twice was enough and he dragged a leg the third time and nearly landed on his nose. You could virtually hear him saying 'this is boring', he wanted something more demanding.

I had a circuit set up in the school with my Appy that we had been doing a combo of lunging / long reining over.

She was loose in there while I was sorting out some poles. She did the circuit, changed rein and did it the other way. Stopped and looked at me as if to say ' done. breakfast now please'

 

[slimjim86]

I know an ex hunt horse who decided he wanted a slower pace of life and whenever going through a gate would knock the riders right leg off, they retired him assuming he was losing his sight in that eye, occasionally if he hadn't found anything to knock them off on he would roll in a shallow bit of river lol

 

[paddy555]

I know an ex hunt horse who decided he wanted a slower pace of life and whenever going through a gate would knock the riders right leg off, they retired him assuming he was losing his sight in that eye, occasionally if he hadn't found anything to knock them off on he would roll in a shallow bit of river lol

I had had my first horse a couple of years, we were completely attached to each other and he was very easy to ride by that stage.
Got my 2nd a young arab and started him riding. As I was working I decided in the evenings I would ride the arab first as he needed a lot more input and the other one 2nd as he needed little input.
He didn't approve. The second night of this and he rode me very deliberately into a tree and I hit my hat very hard. The message was simple. Get things in the correct order and I come top of the list.

 

[dorsetladette]

I had had my first horse a couple of years, we were completely attached to each other and he was very easy to ride by that stage.
Got my 2nd a young arab and started him riding. As I was working I decided in the evenings I would ride the arab first as he needed a lot more input and the other one 2nd as he needed little input.
He didn't approve. The second night of this and he rode me very deliberately into a tree and I hit my hat very hard. The message was simple. Get things in the correct order and I come top of the list.

My little section A first ridden pony when I was a child would deliberately ride my knee into the steel beams in the indoor school. My mum was adament that I was using to much inside leg until she rode the little devil pony. We both still wear the scars!

Only pony to be stolen and return due to her disgusting temper! In later life she was known as the duchess as everything had to be on her terms. I've never seen a mare screw their face up quite like her. She taught a lot of kids (and parents) respect.

 

[PurBee]

My mare is adept at strategising - especially with food!
If i put loads of equal small piles of hay dotted around their winter turn-out area, for the 2 to share - she will always walk around to check-out each pile and based on her findings determines how she will move the gelding around the piles.
Her criteria she is assessing each pile is, A)type of hay (i give 2 variety types i mix a bit, one sweeter than the other)…and B) size of pile.
Once she knows where there is more sweet hay AND bigger piles, she targets those piles as ‘hers’, and moves him from them.

She can do this with 10 piles, 20 piles, 30….it doesnt matter what i do to try to make it fair she figures out how to get the sweetest and most of it!

He, on the other hand, just starts with one pile and eats that until gone, moves onto the next…watching her stomping around perplexed what she’s up to…

But his skill is with fences….

 

[stangs]

 

[shortstuff99]

I did start the thread with saying the study indicates (not definitively prooves). But everyone has had a nice time listing all the fun stories of their horses which I have enjoyed.

 

[paddy555]

I did start the thread with saying the study indicates (not definitively prooves). But everyone has had a nice time listing all the fun stories of their horses which I have enjoyed.

glad they have given you a laugh. However do we really need a study to tell us what we already know? they are highly intelligent animals often more so than the humans who feel the need to do the study.

 

[Billabongchick]

my Criollo stallion has a sense of humour. OH normally falls asleep on a horse. I sent them off round the loop to exercise. Horse and rider had years and years of experience, what could possibly go wrong. The horse does absolutely as he is asked. No more, no less. OH went to sleep as usual, Arrayan quite likes a bit of rider participation so he went to sleep as well. He simply laid down as they were walking along. No rolling, no being nasty just simply "if you are so uninspired by this then so am I".
I'm sure the horse thought it was funny. I thought it was hilarious.

I nearly used him on my TB mare! Assuming he’s the roan ex polo? Went for a slightly larger PRE instead as he left the stud before I was ready and now I have a very smart fusion who thinks she knows everything (Spanish very similar to Criollo I think in temperament!)

 

[shortstuff99]

glad they have given you a laugh. However do we really need a study to tell us what we already know? they are highly intelligent animals often more so than the humans who feel the need to do the study.

Yes because otherwise everything is anecdotal. There are all sorts of random scientific studies for what would seen obvious, but has never been scientifically shown, that is how science works!

 

[Reacher]

Yes because otherwise everything is anecdotal. There are all sorts of random scientific studies for what would seen obvious, but has never been scientifically shown, that is how science works!

Exactly. And providing scientific evidence of a horse’s intelligence (or ability to feel pain when hit / have a blue tongue etc) , which may seem like the bleeding obvious but it’s a (very) small step towards improving their welfare